I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the disconnect between the expert advice offered to teens and the advice being received and followed by teens.
It seems that the experts start from the position that the teen is a willing party in making things better but in my case (I have two with ADHD) neither has been open to the suggestions given.
I just read one of these expert articles (of which there are hundreds) and statements like these (below) lead me to believe there is a disconnect between the perceived starting point for teens by the experts and the actual starting point. This particular article I read was about a teen boy struggling with executive function. Statements in the article were:
“he could try”
“He can also set up”
“finding a method that works for him”
“experimenting with a planning app”
The suggestions were all great, however, in my experience, teens haven’t wanted to try things, set things up, find methods that work for them or experiment with helpful apps. They aren’t motivated to do any of these things and don’t want to waste their free time outside of completing homework doing these things. I wish someone would address how to get a teen to the point where they will listen and try all the great advice out there. I feel like there is a piece missing.
Am I alone in this? Just curious.
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Redpanda5
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You are not alone! Two of our children have adhd, and our teen does not bother with anything that is not an immediate need. She couldn’t manage herself at the moment. Makes me very worried for her future..
Thank you for your response! Okay, so I’m not crazy after all! I also worry about both of my teens futures. I had a therapist just last week tell me that therapy was futile for my teen. Talk about depressing!
Very accurate observation. Our experience is that these suggestions can’t come from the parents. But if another trusted adult such as a therapist or counselor is suggesting them then there is a chance the technique might be tried. Or, coming from a trusted friend/peer who is respected, with strong executive functioning skills.
Thank you! I hope that maybe a friend in the future will get through especially to my daughter. She has ruled out listening to any adult or expert. Sigh.
Well said. I am experiencing exactly what you’re going through. My teen son seems to not listen to any advice given regarding his executive functioning skills, time management, or organizational skills etc. given. I hired and ADD coach for him and she said that she believes he has not accepted his diagnosis and frequently says he should just do it without understanding that it’s not as simple for him.
She also said, that until he fully accepts his DX and is willing to put in the work to implement change, then it probably makes no sense to continue.
It can be very frustrating for me.
I have tried so many things but nothing seems to be working. He avoids doing schoolwork that he does not like such as reading and writing (things that are not if interest). The work then piles up., he becomes overwhelmed and then suffers from severe anxiety. I am worried that this will lead to depression.
I hear you! My daughter is at the opposite end from you son but same result. She has accepted her diagnosis but has the attitude of “nothing works, so why bother trying?” The therapist who last week told me that therapy is futile with her, previously suggested that depression may be leading the charge in her case. I’m almost wondering if she has the treatment-resistant depression that I have heard of. Either way though, resistance to tips from experts is a frustrating place to be struck!
I have started sending progress reports back and forth with my 8th grade son's Algebra teacher. My son is on a 504 plan and already receives an accommodation to do every other problem in a set. Even with that, it takes him 1 1/2-2 hours to complete his math homework each night. I write in the log how long it takes my son to complete his homework. The math teacher looked at the note and commented to my son, "it should not take that long," and then sent him to his desk. This does not help me as a parent!
When I am having trouble sleeping in the middle of the night I fantasize about creating a task force at my child's school focused on neurodiversity in the student population and providing instruction to the faculty in how they can teach to all students, not just the typical learners. But I am a parent and not an educator - this is not my job!
Agree so much! My son is in college and one of his professors gave him a flat out "0" on two homework assignments that were turned in three hours after the upload time--even though he has a 24 hour extension accommodation. His advisor urged him to "start sooner." Ummm--that's not how disabilities work. He won't know he needs the additional time until he's deep into the math problem. Very frustrating. I am ready to do like you and design a neurodiversity course just for his academic department.
Hi. This is just so wrong! Isn’t there any action you can take since it’s a formal accommodation?
My college aged son has also missed assignments and he has been lucky for the most part so far. He just honestly goes to the professor and tells them that he forgot and they let him complete it.
On the flip, I still don’t think he has actually signed his accommodation agreement this semester (for extra time) and the university of course won’t let me get involved in helping get it signed. It requires him to make one phone call and I can’t get him to do it.
The professor said that he needs to let him know earlier and besides he gets to drop his two lowest homework assignments--which is not sufficient since he got a 50% on his first because he ran out of time and decided that turning it in late would be a smaller penalty! This is what needs to be understood--that young adults are doing their own "cost analysis" when trying to figure out how to maximize their accommodations in classes that do not have universal design approaches for teaching. I'd like him to change majors to a department in a smaller college where he can get to know his professors better, but he's adamant on a particular concentration in his current major (Physics!!!). If he was in a humanities or social science or applied science program it would be so much more navigable for him. But, I guess figuring all this out is part of the process.
BTW--I DO assist a lot. It also helps that I work at the university he attends. I am a strong believer that our young adults--neurotypical or neurodivergent--still need our assistance in their early twenties with figuring out these complicated systems. His advisor wants him to send a weekly update, which I think is a good plan because it gives him some structure and provides an avenue for intervention, and he talks through what to write with me. I typed the first update. He typed the second and I said I didn't need to review it (for grammar, etc.). Mom is making a transition too I guess!
I'm right here in the pack. My ADHD, honor student through HS is failing in his first year of college. No accommodations, yet, since he didn't want to file the paperwork. It wasn't until he came home at Xmas with an F, two Ds and one C that he finally had to admit to himself that perhaps he should pursue getting that help. It was like pulling teeth to try and convince him in the fall.
Please, please, don’t stop advocating for your child with this homework issue.
1. How many problems are in a set?
Can your child do four problems with an efficient strategy that would work? (Efficient is not defined here as rapid/quick, but as a process that does not entail a cumbersome amount of steps.) Understanding IS present even if a solution contains a minor computational error and the child’s solution is still within a reasonable range.
What is the point of this problem set homework?
Does the teacher provide detailed feedback related to your child’s thinking process used to solve the problems?
Are there class/small group discussions based on students solving strategies? Meaning is the teacher using this “homework” as a tool to implement the eight mathematical practices?
What knowledge is the teacher expecting to gain in regards to your child’s mathematical thinking from having your child complete this homework?
Is this homework being used by the teacher to inform the teacher’s next instructional steps to advance mathematical understanding for your child?
Could the teacher please explain what is meant by the comment, “It should not take that long.” What research-based qualitative and quantitative data is this teacher using to support this length of time claim?
Is your child being provided with manipulatives such as Algebra Tiles to assist with problem solving? (Without looking back at your post to verify, I think it stated your child is in teenage years, so I used Algebra tiles as an example.)
Is this teacher accommodating your child’s needs by ensuring there’s plenty of blank white space on homework problem set assignments? This aides in alleviating overwhelming feelings for some children.
Why doesn’t the teacher apply “best practice” and provide differentiation by giving your child the assignment with only the problems that are being requested for completion? This also can be successful with reducing feelings of being overwhelmed.
2. To assist your child with getting started on homework, apply “novelty.” Example, homework doesn’t start at 4:00, 5:30 etc. It starts at 4:02, or 5:36.
Then, set a timer so your child knows there’s an end/stopping point (at least for a break). Timer set for 15-20 min. or whatever amount of time you know your child has stamina to maintain a productive focus -might be only 5 min.
FYI: There are research-based recommended guidelines for maximum daily minutes of homework assigned for different age groups.
I think I better stop. If you have ADHD tendencies as well, this list is becoming overwhelming...
I think what often gets lost here is that we parents of ADD kids think they will respond to advice or suggestions like neuro-typical kid would. We have neuro-different kids. I have a 20 year old son w/ADD & college is frustrating especially as he’s lost the bricks & mortar structure of high school. I have plenty of ideas that I think he should try but he’s pretty defiant even though he’s very conscious of his diagnosis. He speaks to a therapist weekly for anxiety & he has had 4 sessions with a local ADD coach whom he said was of no help. I would love to hear from parents of kids w/ADHD or adults of their successes. PLEASE!
Ditto to everything you said! Is success possible? Is self-motivation possible? It would be great to hear from those who have lived through the whole process.
Yes success is possible. It just doesn’t look like that “easy path “ I think Nerotypical teens seem to take. It takes longer and parents like you/us that never give up keeping their teens in the game. Just when thing are going quite well for a few months we hit a bump. I get down but only allow myself one day or a couple of hours of a pity party Then I get back to it. Find your team to help but you are the Executive Parent
Also I find tutors, coaches and dr’s that work with me and while I respect their expertise they understand I’m the parent that will do everything to support my kid and therefore I am that Executive parent and they work for me. If they don’t understand that they are not on my team My kid also had to click with them. When all that is in place then they are able to give advice or suggestions to my kid that i know he needs :should try and except “ from them”
I totally agree. My 20 year old is exactly like that. He doesn’t want to listen or try anything and I have talked and Lectured until I am blue in the face. We tried counseling, apps, Medication, school accommodations, family involvement, articles after articles, etc. i’m with you I honestly don’t know if it is even possible to motivate them to Want to change or get the help strategies to improve. I can’t even get him to use a calendar or even reminders on this phone. I am at a loss as well I don’t know if there is any options that work and I am very scared for this future. College didnt work and he has already been fired from two jobs. I feel like I am trying to create change he doesn’t want Or think he needs. As he’s getting older I fear it’s more anxiety depression than ADD but honestly it changes from one day to the next. There’s gotta be something that can be done to help parents as well as the individual to be more successful. I thought he would mature into adulthood but it actually is worse because now he Can make his own choices and decisions and I can do very little to help if he doesn’t want it. There has to be help out there….. more than try this if you are focused organized and motivated to change????
This is all very stressful! It’s like the thing that isn’t talked about by professionals. I just find it odd that they don’t really address this piece. Is it because there is no way to make someone want help? I hear you.
I replied to WorkingMom about this but also wanted to weigh in on the motivation issue. I think we really thought that we could "fix" our son if we just tried hard enough. (We are both mental health professionals - RN and LCSW!) But no - he refused to be fixed and refused to do things our way - even though his life would have been much easier! It was painful to watch him shoot himself in the foot over and over. ( late to work, so he's fired, skipped class, so he failed, etc) I'm not sure why no one rarely talks about the real problems of parenting older ADHD kids - maybe because no one wants to hear that your child is not miraculously an adult at age 18. Or 19. Or even 24!
THANK you for this. The “trying to fix” is absolutely exhausting but really what I’m learning (from therapists who get it and the school transitions coordinator) is to just get them graduated from high school and help them manage until they do slowly “get it.” I’m learning to accept where she is rather than forcing her to be what everyone else says she should be. Your post is so validating!
I am the mother of a now-27 year old son with ADHD and I hear all of you loudly and very clearly! It has been our experience that boys with ADHD (and maybe girls) don't really "get it" until their mid-20's. We also tried everything - and he did take Vyvanse daily for many years. He hated school, didn't like counseling, was a pig at home, had terrible personal hygiene, got lots of speeding tickets, and was also fired from several jobs. My advice is to definitely get them through high school - no matter what. College is another story - my son is 4 classes short of an associate's degree - and it took him about 4 years to get to this point! There is light at the end of this very long tunnel, though. He has been living on his own and paying for his expenses (mostly!) for about 2 years now. He has a full-time job with benefits. (He was on my insurance until age 26.) He is planning to return to our local community college to finish up this summer - it will be on his dime now. But I can tell everyone that I "managed" him for years - and no matter what anyone says - I think this may be the norm for many ADHD kids. He is now doing fairly well managing his own money - he has a checking account, but no credit cards. He can't take his ADHD meds anymore because his health insurance will not cover the Vyvanse, but he knows he will need something for school. We have had our ups and downs over the years - at times, it's been just exhausting! But he has turned out to be a pretty nice guy despite all of our issues! I would be happy to chat with anyone who wants more info!
In my opinion, much of the professional advice given assumes that most ADHD kids are willing to do the things that might make life easier for them. This was certainly not the case with my son. He was not interested in any of it. He took his meds without a problem but otherwise, he marched to his own beat - and we just struggled to keep things as stable as possible. Our problem (and here's where my advice comes in...) is to lower your expectations A LOT and buckle down for the long ride. This is definitely a marathon and not a sprint! Our biggest mistake, I think, was that we based everything on our lives - how we did at his age. And when he didn't meet these benchmarks, it was very frustrating for all of us. To be honest, I am still frequently frustrated by what I perceive as his slow progress to adulthood! But I finally know that there's not a whole lot I can do about it. His brain should be just about "cooked" and we are hopeful that he will have a successful life moving forward.
Thank you SO much for this! It’s hard to see what the future may hold. I want to be hopeful but realistic and it sounds like it’s been a lot of work that has paid off. I really needed your post. Thank you!
Curious, is your son willing to talk about his ADHD life experiences since turning 20? Can he recall any specific instances, or people that affected his life from a work perspective or school perspective resulting in a meaningful change in his dealing with his ADHD?
Although he's always known he has ADHD, I don't think he's quite that introspective at this point. And I don't think that there is anything or anyone that he would say made a difference. I think brain maturation with these kids is very very slow - it's one step forward and 2 back for many years! It seems like they have to learn the hard way, which can be both heartbreaking and stressful. So my son now lives on his own, works full-time, and pays his expenses (mostly!) but he can still be very unorganized. He called me in a panic this morning, saying he left his wallet at home (stuck in the jeans he took off at some point) and needed his ID for work. Could one of us run it over to him? Of course, we did - thank goodness we are retired and had the time. And of course, we have keys to his apt for things like this!! (And extra keys in our garage for when he misplaces his!)
I hear you! I have a 21 year old son with ADHD/depression/anxiety. He is desperately unhappy but won't do anything to help himself. I have to do everything for him (and those who say 'you shouldn't do that as he'll never become independent' have obviously never had experience of a kid with ADHD.!). He was only diagnosed last year (and we couldn't believe we hadn't suspected it before but in some ways he wasn't typical). He seems to be angry most of the time, resents being at home and tells us we do nothing for him! He tried stimulants but had side effects (not helped by the fact that he wouldn't take his meds often - although he told us he did). Now he's on an antidepressant but it doesn't seem to be making a massive difference. He hasn't worked since leaving school, apart from a couple of odd jobs. He has zero motivation and seems paralysed about moving forward but won't listen to advice from anyone - least of all us.I feel desperately sorry for him but he is a nightmare to live with and his behaviour affects the mental health of me, his dad and his sister. Sorry - no advice to give really as we are as frustrated as you with it all, but just want to let you know you are not alone in this.
We know all about the anger - this seems to go hand-in-hand with boys and ADHD. Our son was also a nightmare at home - we eventually moved him to his own apt and helped him pay the rent. He did work at least part-time, but was terrible at managing his money. (Better now, but not great yet.) I know our son was depressed, but he also refused to take anything or see anyone. And I'm not sure it would have helped. ADHD meds do help with executive function, but some kids can't take them. I would make things like driving and cell phone contingent on his getting at least a part-time job. And you will have to go online and apply for him! Fortunately, there are tons of jobs out there right now. And you might have to take him to work and pick him up. At least in the beginning. Working will help him and may boost his morale. Try not to give any advice and not to argue. You can't win and he won't listen. Does he clean his room? Or does he make a mess of the entire house?
Thanks so much - sounds like good advice and it is heartening to know that your son is coping on his own, even if he does need help. A therapist my son was seeing advised this about not arguing - I do try but it’s not easy. He says he wants to work but turns his nose up at anything we suggest and yet makes no effort to look himself. He does now have a car and I am going to tell him that we won’t continue to pay the insurance on it. Not sure he’d even mind though. His room is HORRENDOUS! Sorry Redpanda5 - don’t want to hijack your post but hopefully you find this useful too
You haven’t hijacked it at all! This has generated exactly the conversation that I felt was needed. These questions are GREAT! I love that this has sparked such an informative thread! I’m soaking up everything that is shared. It’s so helpful knowing what may be ahead and mentally preparing for it.
A couple things: first of all, just get him a job and don't ask him for suggestions. Take away the car - he will drive it with no insurance - I guarantee that. You may have to drive him to work or make him take a bus. And don't pay his cell phone - no arguments - just inform him of your last payment and that's it. But you HAVE to follow through. After years on this merry-go-round, we've decided that our boys simply do not have the executive functioning or the brain maturity to manage a lot of details. But it does come - just not for awhile!
I just read through most of everything. What I kept thinking, over and over again...
"This sounds just like the conversations AA had with the family of addicts"
There is a lot of "you can't help them, they are the only ones who can help themselves, they need to reach the bottom and decide they don't want this to be their life, once they make the choice, then we can help them, we can't choose for them, we can't make them want the help or even accept it"
I also kept thinking "Wow, this sounds like typical teen behavior and may have nothing to with with ADHD at all"
We have a friend who is a father and went through *exactly* the same problems with his son, who does not have ADHD or depression or anything else they could determine. He hated school, didn't want to do any of his work, barely managed to graduate and then just lived in the basement for the next couple years (tried and failed at college). He was stubborn as a mule about being "forced" to do his school work as a teen. You could take away every item he owned and have him sleeping on the floor of his room and he still wouldn't do it. He wouldn't apply for jobs. Just sat in the basement...
Every story is different. His grandfather eventually took him under his wing. Started bringing him to work with him and giving him simple jobs to do. Started giving him a paycheck and getting him used to a schedule, work habits, being with other functional adults out in the real world. It made a world of difference. He started being more independent. He even applied and got another job once things ended with him grandfather (nothing tragic, just the pandemic and contracts at work ending). So far he seems to be functioning and improving, bit by bit. All that, without ADHD. Still living in the basement though. Baby steps.
My son is a different story. ADHD from early on. Very typical. However, despite his constant need to argue with us and not listen, and only want to do his own thing... He was pliable. I could take away his toys (varied by age) and his freedom and he would suffer. In turn he would make me suffer (I was in charge of enforcing these rules). It was so difficult and frustrating that I wanted to tear my hair out. However... he would eventually give in before I did. I could outlast him and he couldn't take the suffering. So he would do what we wanted and I would stand over him watching to make sure it all got done the right way. Then things would be better for a few months until he decided to slack off and challenge the system again. Rinse/repeat. For him he needed firm, unbreakable rules. For me, I needed a system that enforced the rules without my constant intervention. Mostly this came down to me automating cut off times for our internet router. If I wanted him to go to bed, then I had to sever his connection to his games/friends/etc at a specific time every day. Then, left with nothing to do, he would go to bed. If I didn't, he would stay up way past bedtime and pretend he never noticed.
The high school years went by fairly well, but as college approached I began to fret. He was going away. Far, far away. Another country. I couldn't watch over him. I couldn't enforce rules. I couldn't even be there to remind him about the things he should be doing. He (IMO) had not matured, or gained any independence that he would need at college. So far my fears are playing out exactly as I expected. Honors student, taking honor levels courses through HS, now failing in college. He wants to succeed, but he's always believed that could be done without really putting in the hard work. He starts things late, or fails to do them, gets up late, misses classes... He knows he is failing. He knows what he is doing isn't working. He just can't see or listen to the path to success.
He missed his plane coming home for vacation break a few weeks ago. He left for the airport, about 30 min before the plane was supposed to take off. Painful lesson. Claims he learned it and will now get there early. Of course we have told him a dozen times before that how important it was to get there early. He claims no one ever told him that before (rolling eyes)
"I could take away his toys (varied by age) and his freedom and he would suffer. In turn he would make me suffer (I was in charge of enforcing these rules). It was so difficult and frustrating that I wanted to tear my hair out. However... he would eventually give in before I did. I could outlast him and he couldn't take the suffering. So he would do what we wanted and I would stand over him watching to make sure it all got done the right way."
Exactly my experience with my 13 year old son. If I take his phone away he tries to take mine, but somehow I do end up (mostly) getting him to do what is needed.
"He claims no one ever told him that before (rolling eyes)"
I had to laugh at this one...one day while driving in the car I mentioned something about dinner, and my then 10 year-old son asked me what time that was. We eat dinner at 6:30 every. single. day. He claimed defiantly that no one had ever told him when dinner was.
Yup. I'd like to believe they just say these things to watch us turn purple and splutter in disbelief. It would be easier to take than the fact that they are just oblivious to everything they don't view as important. It's not even a conscious choice or decision. At some unconscious level, important facts and details about life are simply filtered out. They honestly have no recollection of ever seeing/hearing these things, even if we tell them 100 times.
I wanted to make one more comment on the above posts: we all hear a lot about letting our kids "hit rock bottom" and then they will pull themselves up. This can definitely be true for addicts and other adults who have substance abuse issues. But there is no value in letting your ADHD kid become homeless, with no access to the basics. You can take away the car, phone, video games, computer, etc. Homelessness creates many other problems and does not solve anything. We had family members and friends and even counselors at school tell us that our son just needed to experience not having anything before he would appreciate what he had. They were well-meaning, for the most part, but had no clue about ADHD.
This video (recommended by someone on this forum) really helped me understand ADHD better. It’s a bit long, but was incredibly eye opening for me. It helps to listen to it in segments.
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