Managing non-medicated teen

[Birdie7]

Hello. My son just turned 15 and chose not to be on medication when starting high school. We supported it because, quite honestly, the med he was on (and the ones we tried over the years) had more negative side effects than positive benefits. I've done fish oil, magnesium, vitamin D, iron & calcium etc. for years. Football has ended and now we are having a very difficult time with structure: studying/homework and cell phone use. I have been looking for an adhd coach but nothing in my area. My next step is to conference with one out of state. I have been in contact with all his teachers and the school counselor.

My son fights us over cell phone use. All I hear is how is friends have their phones at all times whereas I hold onto it while he studies/homework and take it at 8pm. Otherwise, he would be distracted by his snap chats and games. He resents us and is angry and belligerent. It is stressful. He'll say he doesn't have any homework only for me to find out the next day when checking his grades, that he had a test. He will use his adhd "against" us by saying he can't do this and that because of it and life is 'so much harder' for him and we don't know what it's like.

For those of you with teens and preteens, what has worked for you? What kind of schedule or structure and rewards/discipline have you implemented that works well for your teen? How do you manage their cell phone use, video games?

He gets "downtime" for an hour after school with his phone. I find that if he does homework first, he rushes through it to get to his electronics. Also, after being in school all day, and having adhd, he feels like he's ready to explode. He needs a break. Then I require he do 1 full hour of work while his phone sits on kitchen counter.

We are trying so hard to give him opportunities to give him the freedom to manage his own school work and not get all over his tail. Teens want freedom, but having adhd, he has demonstrated over and over that he can't manage his time, nor does he have the planning and organizational skills for studying for exams. Every day is a battle. He blows off schoolwork because it's not important to him and he doesn't take it seriously. We are thrilled that he now has his first girlfriend because socially, he has struggled. But of course, he wants to spend all his time snap chatting with her after school.

We are struggling with consistent rules and structure. Balancing rewards and discipline is so hard. The back talk and disrespect are at an all time high. Teen, hormones, social media, no medication, high performing high school, etc., is wearing us all down. Nothing seems to work. I am tired of constantly getting on him for doing his work, managing his electronic use, studying for tests, doing his chores (which are mostly during weekend), his defiant behavior, anger, unkind behavior and words. He does not appreciate us and his entitled behavior has put us over the edge.

Any advice is so appreciated. Thanks so much.

[Onthemove1971]

Birdie7-

Could you tie school work improvement to the phone? Is he getting adequate help at school?

I have a question about medication, did you work with a child psychiatrist? I also wonder if would rather manage what is happening now or side effects? I strongly feel that with the right medication things would be better and I would hope a psychiatrist is the team member you are missing. There are so many types of medication you could try for him.

Just my thoughts..

Also big hugs for how stressful life is for you..

[Birdie7 in reply to Onthemove1971]

Thank you so much for your message. Yes, we have tried several meds. We even tried clonidine combo with meds to balance side effects. My son refuses to take meds now. I was seeing a therapist who specializes in adhd to help get concrete, practical steps to help him. I saw her for a few months and never got any tangible help, she just wanted me to discuss how I felt about it all, and the stress it caused our family. Well, that just let me feeling worse quite honestly. Important to discuss feelings but I wasn't helping my son.

We saw a psychiatrist years ago when he was in 4th or 5th grade. He was uncooperative and didn't want to go. I decided to do my own research and educate myself at that point on medication and then spoke to his pediatrician about which ones seemed good to try. Last year, I had his pediatrician run molecular testing on him to help determine which meds he would respond to the best for his chemistry. It really only gave us 2 options. And he's been on both.

I have partnered with all his teachers by letting each of them know about his diagnosis. I have reached out to teachers (when he won't) to get him the extra help he needs.

We spoke last night and he said the tutor is really the best help for him. I asked him to consider medication again, so we'll see. Thanks for your thoughts and kind words.

[Onthemove1971 in reply to Birdie7]

Birdie7- it really sounds like you are doing your best at this time and striving for better.

What about caffeine? Could he drink a drink with lots of caffeine before he does homework?

What has helped us is when my son does something he should not( really bad and gotten suspended) and we have to discuss it his psychologist asked him " what were you thinking when you.." he also says if you do xxx what do you think will happen? These help a lot to try to change his thinking.

Have you also tried to find another kid his age that has ADHD and is successfully taking medication that he could talk to?

I am amazed at all you have done and you are staying strong..

Best of luck.

[spb1234]

Let me just put this out there first. I am not a parent. I am an 18 year old college student with Attention Deficit and was diagnosed in fourth grade. I strongly recommend that you keep trying medications as a way of treatment because it can make a lot of your sons struggles a lot easier. And I can guarantee that his life IS so much more difficult and you really don’t know what it’s like until you have it. One of the medications that have worked best for me in my high school years was Adderall XR. It has really helped me keep a clear state of mind and it helped me stay connected with the task at hand. Will it solve his need for his phone, no, but it will help him get his work done. The medication I am currently on is Vyvanse and it is by far the best med I’ve taken to treat my ADD I started that last year and it has been a godsend. As for helping your son get his work done after school. Try and get him to do some exercise. Cardio is best. It clears the mind and it will allow him to go back to his work with a blank slate. These are things that have helped me in the past so I encourage you to try some of them. When it comes to treating ADHD/ADD medication is by far the best route in my opinion because it helps to balance the chemicals in the brain that make it hard to do what you need to get done. Please please please try to reconsider medication as a way to treat your sons ADHD.

Also, I lie to my parents all the time when it comes to school related topics, especially when it comes to bad grades, because I am afraid of what my parents will think of me and the consequence that will follow when they see that I am not doing well. Your son isn’t just lying to get his phone back, it’s so that he doesn’t disappoint you. So the next time you know or suspect that he’s lying to you, let him know that all you are trying to do is help, not to punish. And most of let him know that you love him and that he will never disappoint you, because that small change is self esteem makes all the difference. Best of luck and feel free to message me about any questions you may have to help your son because I guarantee I have already gone through and dealt with 90% of what your son is going through and will go through in his future.

[Birdie7 in reply to spb1234]

Thank you, thank you so much for your reply. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. It is incredibly helpful to hear from someone who knows how he feels, and what he goes through.

Yes, you are absolutely right about the exercise. When he had football, he had practice 5 days a week and it was so much easier to schedule studying time. He is definitely more agitated now that the practice season is over, and he's not currently in sports. It drives me nuts that our school system doesn't offer PE as a core curriculum but as an elective. But this is a good reminder for me. In the past, when he wants video game time, I have told him to walk the dog, shoot hoops on the driveway, ride his bike, etc. for 30 minutes first. Lately when I ask him, he flat out refuses. But he leaves me no choice in that I will have to take the phone until he does these things...I have never been good at understanding how to reward and motivate him---seems so hard to strike the balance with punishment and reward when he is so angry, defiant, and disrespectful at times. Any advice you have in these area would be tremendous.

We had so many issues with finding the right medication that I had molecular testing done to help find out what would work best for him...so hard seeing the bad effects of medication that isn't a right fit for his brain chemistry. Basically, methylphenidate drugs have severe negative effects (becomes irate). The ones with fewer side effects that he was on that we had a little bit of success for him was Vyvanse, Focalin, and Adderall XR. The feedback from teachers over the years on Focalin and Adderall was that they helped a little bit but not enough. When trying to increase the doses, we increased the side effects with no benefit. He was on Vyvanse for a few years. Vyvanse seemed to help him focus in school the most, however, he experienced severe weight loss (he was in the less than 5% of weight) and it is possible it stunted his growth (he is much smaller than his peers). He had to be on it 7 days a week because when he was off it for the weekend, it took days to come off and a few days to "reset" when he went back on it. Coming off of it in the evenings he behaved in bizarre and uncooperative ways (the details of which are another post).

For a few months, we even tried his med with clonidine (and another non-stim) to balance the side effects and it only made him extremely tired. It did not help him focus any better, just wanted to take naps all afternoon. Anyway, we took him off Vyvanse the last day of 8th grade. It took weeks to clear his system. He gained 15 pounds. He seemed fine. Before he started high school this past August, he told us he did not want to go back on medication. He didn't like the way it made him feel and felt like it changed his personality.

When HS started, within a few weeks I was getting the emails from teachers...you know, "not paying attention in class...disruptive....talking excessively..." and grades falling. I have spent countless hours with the counselor there and lots of email communication with his teachers. There's a lot of pressure at his high performing HS (all his friends and neighbors are in honor classes but he is not) so I asked him to consider medication again. At different times, we tried Vyvanse and it did not go well. Another week we tried Focalin and then Adderall and he told me he didn't like how either of them made him feel and he refused to take them again. He is flat out refusing.

Now, yesterday he got an 'F' on his Biology test and has an 'F' in another class. He just isn't motivated to spend the time. He became very angry and defensive with me with I tried to discuss it with him. I told him that I know he didn't put in the time to study and that is what is unacceptable, not the fact that he got a failing grade, but that he did not put in the time, even after all the help I offer.

We had a good talk last night, I let him know how much we love him and just want him to be happy and successful. That I knew how smart he is, so to see him not try or take the help we offer is hard for a parent to see. We recently tried 5 hour energy and Red Bull to see if caffeine will help. It helped a little but not enough but I asked him to try again. And if that didn't work, to try Adderall or Focalin again. He hates meds and when I ask him to try again, yells sarcastically "Sure, mom, a pill is always the answer isn't it?!" My husband and I feel guilty about encouraging him to go on one again when we haven't had that much success with it (only did it from teacher pressure) and don't like how he stops eating and the radical changes in his behavior when he comes off of it.

Anyway, such much more to say but I've already gone long here. Thank you so much for your time in reading this and for your valuable input.

[spb1234]

I would love to speak with your son about this. I think the reason why he doesn’t like meds is because of how on and off he’s been on it. when starting meds it needs a good month for it to really set in. Weight loss is expected as they cause loss of appetite, however that isn’t hard to fix, ie reminding him to eat. From the sounds of Vyvanse does the best for him, however if you try starting it again I would recommend doing it in the summer taking it every day, that way it won’t affect his studies. His body needs to get used to the regular exposure to the medication. It won’t help when you do a week of one med and then the next week a different med. one week isn’t long enough for his body to get used to the affects. And to counter the loss of appetite, make sure he eats at least breakfast and dinner each day. I guarantee his weight loss is due to the loss of appetite. I hope your son does well and that you find a treatment that works for you. Best of luck!

[Birdie7 in reply to spb1234]

Thank you for your feedback. I have talked to my son about giving the medication a try again, explaining that it just isn't a level playing field for him without it. He said no. He told me he would try the 5 hour energy or red bull again. I gave him the 5 hour energy this morning and he refused to drink it. He put it in his backpack. I will not ask him to try Vyvanse again because of how he responds coming off of it. I'm going to see if I can have him talk to another adult (like his former coach) to help him consider medication...he just won't listen to his parents.

[jolinn]

It might help to get your son and adhd coach; someone who works with him when he is doing his homework, etc. Have you tried that?

[Birdie7 in reply to jolinn]

Yes, I have been looking for an adhd coach for 2 years. The closest I found was a therapist who specializes in adhd. My son refused to go and she wanted me to discuss my stress and frustration. I kept asking for concrete and practical advice but never got it. There just aren't any in my area. I have decided to conference with one out of state. I am currently narrowing it down to a few professionals. Thank you for you feedback.

[jolinn]

Also, it might also help to help him build a life for himself that is more in tune with what he is interested in. I think that he probably has more interests than just using his phone and interacting with his girlfriend. Look back to his childhood and remember what fascinated him. Help him to enter that place again (but in a more "adult" way this time). School can strip a child of that (especially a child with adhd). He, as a human being, deserves to be happy and engage in who he is (and I don't mean playing video games on his phone all day). He needs to not feel like a failure all of the time. Spend more time with him in positive endeavors. Don't WORRY about school so much. And again, I think that a really great one-on-one ADHD coach and mentor will greatly help.

[Birdie7 in reply to jolinn]

Yes, absolutely. We have encouraged him and offered a half dozen different options. Football is over and he decided he didn't want to do another sport (one he did last year). We've suggested other things we know he would be good at. He's reluctantly tried and liked one of them but now we can't get him to spend time on it. I have asked him to think about what he would like to do...we have offered and offered and suggested...and asked him and asked him but his number one love is electronics. He feels good about himself when he plays video games. I am taking all the advice on this board, however, and trying to look at things differently to see what we are missing. All good advice. And, yes, the one thing I have been saying to my husband for years is that our son needs a mentor. We are hoping someone else can help motivate him. Thank you so much for your feedback, so appreciate it.

[K0205]

Hi there. I have a similar situation with my 16 year old. I’m not sure I can help but just an offer of empathy and support may be enough. My son was diagnosed borderline in 4th grade by a child psychologist but no meds recommended at that time because he was a good communicator with adults, his peers, & was getting good grades. It seems once it affects school is when meds are recommended. High school has been a different story. His teachers & himself requested another doctors appointment last year. He was loosing focus with homework & in school. He is on Vyvanse now but we still battle the same issues. He has a med check next week so maybe an increase is needed. I felt the same as your son about meds. The side affects are so bad but he was at loss for solutions. Will power is not a great option for ADD. My son plays football too & that is a great therapy for him he told me. Once it’s over it is chaotic in our house. The focusing on school work is still very difficult as well. I understand your frustration as I feel it too. My son suffers from the impulsiveness of the disorder. He does not like the word “no”. No phone, car, or video games is an escalated argument. He always says “it makes no sense”. I think you are doing a great job with still holding to consequences & rules. As hard as it is I know it’s good for them. My son has a punching bag in our garage that he will go out & use after school when he’s not in the sports. Also if your son decides to try Vyvanse or meds we use a weight gainer powder with a massive amount of calories & nutrients to supplement his diet. Hang in there. These are all symptoms of this disorder and they seem normal enough to “get it” but their brains are not the same. I’ve tried to look at it like a person with depression or bipolar who absolutely needs a medication to save their life. Their emotions escalate to a 10 quickly when most people may escalate to a 5. Online schooling will be our last resort if grades are not improving. Your son is blessed to have you as support, but as Moms, we need support as well!

[Birdie7 in reply to K0205]

Thank you so, so much. Sounds like you can absolutely relate.

Before I forget to mention this, as for the weight loss, he was on the Gainer. He was on it for 2 years. It was a battle to get him to drink it. I bought ice cream, etc., and still very little luck in that area. I can't tell how hard it's been to get him to consume the calories he needs, especially protein. He would drink a shake maybe 3 times a week, if I was lucky. I should also note that he was diagnosed with sensory processing disorder as a child along with severe speech delay. Even at 6 months old, he refused most food I gave him...long story...poor baby was having digestion problems and I think he was afraid of eating something that might make him feel bad. To this day, he has a limited diet and you guessed it...it's mostly carbs and no veggies and only likes 2 types of fruits. My compromise is getting him to drink a glass or vegetable juice. Aye.

Anyway, my son hits furniture, walls, slams doors, etc. when he's mad (like asking him to put his phone on the kitchen counter while he does his homework). I told him last week that I wanted to get him a real punching bag so that he can hit that instead. And then I read that in your message! Well, I'm going to get one now.

Anyway, your last paragraph is spot on and I totally agree. It's so true. It's so hard, I just want him to be the best he can be and all that he is capable of. It makes me sad. All he can think of right now is how angry he is that he doesn't get his phone 24-7 "like his friends" do. He's having a hard time seeing the full picture and I know it will take a different 3rd party person to help him. More work to do here. Thank you for your feedback and support!

[K0205]

I just noticed your question about what we have found that works & doesn’t. I learned when my son was younger that the reward system is better than anything. I’ve thought about going back to this in the teen years but haven’t yet. Maybe allowing him more game time or phone time after a couple nights of not complaining over you taking the phone at 8 pm. Or what ever it is that he looks forward to. And do this as often as you can. I learned to not expect a long length of time with a task or discipline. It sets them up for failure some times. I’m starting this with his grades & not being tardy to one class he’s always tardy for. I’m trying to come up with something worth it to him to change these behaviors.

[Birdie7 in reply to K0205]

Thank you. Yes, trying so hard to look for ways to reward him and ways to build his self esteem. It's hard for his dad because we our son back talks us so often, using bad language, and being uncooperative we are trying hard to find the positive. Yes, I agree, rewards are the way to go...thank you for your feedback.

[K0205]

And one more! Sorry... just thought of it, I noticed when I thank him for the little things he remembers to do (and big but even the smallest of things) he lights up & will keep doing well in that department!

[seller]

Birdie,

My ADHD son is now 24 and I would like to share our long and bumpy road on the way to adulthood. First of all, as several posts have shared, medication is the ONLY way to go. Therapy, supplements, rewards, punishments, etc only go so far with our teen boys. At age 15, your son does not have the ability to decide if he should take meds or not. Would you let him decide if he had diabetes? I don't think most parents realize that our boys can get into situations that will follow them the rest of their lives. So....your son has to take something and extended release is the best way for now. Yes, there will be side effects, but the pros far outweigh the cons. Your son is about 2-3 years behind his non-ADHD peers with regard to his executive functioning. This will continue until about age 25, when his brain "catches up". High school will continue to be a challenge without meds and the defiance will only get worse. Please don't allow him to drive at age 16 - he won't be ready until at least 18 and there will be tickets and accidents even then. Be prepared for your son to need LOTS of oversight, even if he thinks he doesn't, for quite a while. Email the teachers, check his backpack, look through his room, etc. (I found old high school papers in all kinds of odd places for years!) And just know that the control you have now is rapidly going away.....once his friends drive, all bets are off. (You can put a tracker on his phone!) So....the reality is that he CAN'T manage his time or his schoolwork - definitely without medication. When you add the normal teenage defiance to a male ADHD brain, the combination can be horrible. I hate to be the pessimistic voice here, but your son really needs to take medication. These are really hard years for ADHD boys anyway and it's worse for parents! Oh - and just ignore the entitled crap - he won't be appreciative until at least his mid-20's! We still have issues with this! Let me know if you want to chat! I have 2 friends from this site and we're still in touch after 10 years!

[Birdie7 in reply to seller]

My goodness, you are so spot on. Thank you so much for your message!! This looks like something I wrote for my husband!! I have sent him countless emails with similar information. I read and read all I can to educate myself on how to manage a child with adhd and I then talk to my husband about it because he does NOT understand...and he does not read up on it like I do. I find that educating myself helps to take the emotion out of the situation so I can handle it better.

Yes, I know you are right. We have to get him back on medication. We just have to determine between the two options we have left, which will be better for him. I know he will resent us for requiring that he takes the medication but I'm not sure if we have a choice. And he's been talking about driving since he turned 15! I am so freaked out because I know with how distracted he gets how dangerous this will be for others as well as himself. One more thing to be angry at us for, to resent us for.

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to stay in touch. I need all the help and support we can get. Thank you so much.

[seller in reply to Birdie7]

Birdie - Try Vyvanse. I think someone else posted that they liked it. It's been the best choice for our son because he doesn't experience the "highs and lows" and it's the not "drug of choice" for kids to sell or give to their friends, like Adderall. And I have to say this: who cares if he resents you? Believe me, there will be so much other stuff to add to the list!! One thing you can do - tell him he certainly cannot drive if he's not on ADHD medication....but even then, I would not allow it. My son totaled 2 cars and has had 4 speeding tickets. Our car insurance is sky-high because of him. (We make him pay half of it.) Your job is to get your son safely out of high school right now and this means lots and lots of oversight and much much lower expectations. My advice: set up a few rules and stick to them NO MATTER WHAT! Ignore the attitude, ignore the rudeness, don't get drawn into arguments and DON'T TALK TOO MUCH!! Our boys are like dogs - they only hear blah blah blah after the first few words!! This will go on for at least 3-4 more years, until their brain catches up!

[Birdie7 in reply to seller]

Thank you, Seller. And thank you for the humor...a funny analogy really. And come to think of it, the way my son mocks me when I try and talk to him, I really think he's tuning me out and only hearing 'blah, blah, blah.' And yes, that's what I told my husband, to use fewer words. No lectures. But I admit that there are times when my son really pushes my buttons...and I think he enjoys the tit-for-tat. But when he speaks to me so disrespectfully, I fire back sometimes maybe because I would have never in a million years spoken to my parents the same way. Still, they never had my challenges. But thank you for the reminder to use fewer words. I need to develop thicker skin. The anger and frustration in our household is depressing. He used to be the funniest kid when he was younger. I miss that.

Anyway, Vyvanse does NOT work well for my son. The side effects outweighed the benefits, although I admit that it helped him to focus the most at school. But coming off of it...to put it mildly, he is uncooperative and you can't reason with him, combined with bizarre and unusual behavior. After doing molecular testing, our only 2 choices are Adderall or Focalin. He's been on both without much success. I've tried 2 different stimulants to balance the stim med but it just made him extremely tired and unmotivated. Anyway, it's Focalin or Adderall, so I will go back to the drawing board with that. Thanks so much for your feedback.

[seller]

I had to reply once more with some positive stuff - despite the fact that our son was a total and complete ass for most of this teen years, it has been encouraging to see that, at age 24, he actually did internalize most of our values. He's a nice guy with lots of friends, is finally finishing up college (community, but still...!), has a career picked out and can hold a job. He didn't get into drugs and has never been arrested. He realizes he needs his ADHD meds and even takes a booster dose for evening things. He lives on his own and although his apt is often a mess, is able to manage his life with very little input from us. We still have the occasional battles and he can still be rude, but things are much better between us now.