Covid-19 vaccine efficacy in immunocompromised patients/gov.uk announcement

[zoe69]

This was published by the government today.

I would say it is quite good news, but please have in mind that

*the data used is Real World Data (derived from electronic health records (EHRs), claims and billing activities, product and disease registries, etc), not from clinical trials researching about the efficacy of the vaccines in specific immunocompromised groups.

*As CEV have been shielding/being very careful the data don't represent the whole picture. The actual exposure would be much lower than the rest of the population making efficacy appear higher artificially.

* It is not clear if the data collected includes data since the Delta variant came to UK or was it collected before?

Please, be happy about the good news, but as the results from research looking specifically on people either having vasculitis or having similar treatment as us will come later in the year, be careful out there. The pandemic is not over yet.

gov.uk/government/news/covi...

[SheffieldJane]

That makes sense. Thanks for posting.

[ANCAShock]

This seems to suggest a high likelihood of coverage after 2nd vaccine but I’ve heard of so many on immunosuppressants who have no antibodies. Of course if we were offered antibody testing then guess work could be avoided

[HeronNS in reply to ANCAShock]

But as has been pointed out several times there is more to immune response than the presence of antibodies. Something about T cells? Sorry I don't know the medical lingo.

[zoe69 Administrator Volunteer Vasculitis UK in reply to HeronNS]

T cell memory.To have good immune response you need to have both. Otherwise the efficacy of the vaccine is lower.

The data collected in ongoing research about the efficacy of the vaccine is including t-cell response.

The data used for the government announcement doesn't include any blood test results, only deaths and hospitalisation (NHS digital data).

[EOLHPC in reply to zoe69]

Exactly: Well Said 👏👏👏👏

Many thanks, Zoe

Another point:

some of us ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’ have humoral impairment for one reason or another (mine is a type of Primary Immunodeficiency Disease called Antibody Deficiency Disease which includes both B & T cells deficiencies as well as antibody deficiencies (panhypogammaglobulinaemia) & renders me unable to create antibodies in response to anything. So immunology has me on long-term IgG replacement therapy + antibiotics, & of course rheumatology has me on heavy immunosuppression for my AIDs).

So, am waiting for official acknowledgement of these finer points

❤️🍀❤️🍀 Coco

[Chris-Bromsgrove]

There seems to have been a vacuum of information on protection levels for the CEV up until now. This is good news and quite timely in view of what is happening out there. As individuals we don't know for certain how well protected we are but it is nevertheless encouraging.

[zoe69 Administrator Volunteer Vasculitis UK in reply to Chris-Bromsgrove]

We certainly don't know for sure on the efficacy of the vaccine in certain groups of immunocompromised patients.

Although as everyone else I was hoping these news were credible, finding out that the data came from digital health records and wasn't even peer reviewed made me feel cheated.

[zoe69 Administrator Volunteer Vasculitis UK]

The government info has been changed in response to the criticism.gov.uk/government/news/covi...

[Missjosefina in reply to zoe69]

According to the Supplementary Material, found following a link in Week 27’s Vaccine Effectiveness report, a total of 27,211 positive tests among individuals reporting symptoms were identified in the study Period 12th April to the 4th June 2021. They generally show lower hospitalisation rates in the vaccinated groups (1.3% HR for those double jabbed +14days compared to 3.15% HR for those non-vaccinated.

However, the supplemental material shows Alpha made up 48% of positive cases in that time period. The UK roadmap had us under Step 2 for half of that same period. With Delta now being the dominant variant (98% of all current cases), should we be concerned that 1.18% of double jabbed +14days were hospitalised with Delta, compared to 0.83% unvaccinated? Are all the weekly vaccinate effectiveness reports focusing on the wrong statistic?

The stats ‘seem to be’ based on antibodies found in samples taken for to evaluate the success of Phase 1, (testing samples from the start of the UK Vaccine Strategy to 21 May 2021) . If these samples were collected when Alpha was dominant, how sure are we that these antibodies can challenge the Delta variant? People who were vaccinated in Phase 1 are the same people most at risk from suffering severe Covid (and higher mortality). If the antibodies they’ve got don’t protect from Delta, how relevant is the Vaccine Effectiveness report?

khub.net/web/phe-national/p...

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