Cramp Gone! but was it the Vit D or the Magnesium...probably both!

[ellarose1234]

I wrote a Blog the other day about suddenly realising my cramp had gone completely and I could stretch to my hearts content quite safely. I was sure it was Vit D which had done the trick but MARZ gave me a link to a site which suggested:

If you are taking Vitamin D, it's important that you understand the Magnesium and Vitamin D connection in order to avoid vitamin d side effects and to maximize absorption. Nutrients don't work alone, and when it comes to taking vitamin d, it's important that you take magnesium and vitamin d together and not JUST vitamin d alone in large doses as this can lead to what people BELIEVE are vitamin d side effects, but are really just magnesium deficiency symptoms that have been induced because of how vitamin d 'uses up' magnesium in its conversion to its 'active form' in the bloodstream from supplements and sunlight.

Read more: easy-immune-health.com/magn...

I am in the throes of sticking to my YorkTest diet which means for me...no gluten,wheat,yeast,egg and a few other things. This makes life difficult to say the least and I have been eating my home-made Hummus at almost every meal, and always as a snack. Hummus is made mainly from chickpeas and chickpeas are STACKED with magnesium.

So is it the two together that is taking my cramp away? I have been on the Vit D some months and the Hummus for about a month and the cramp has stopped in about the last month soooooooooo it is likely to be the two together. I'm not stopping either to find out! if anyone has a similar experince I would love to hear from them.

Thank you MARZ for pointing me in the right direction.

[PinkNinja]

Personally I found that the vitamin D helped mostly with the joint stuff and my rib pain when breathing. The magnesium helped with muscle tension, insomnia and headache as well as anxiety. I am definitely best taking both though

[Hidden]

I have just started taking Magnesium as I have awful cramps. Too early to say if they are working but I am hopeful. I take vit D already and have done for awhile. The cramps are very painful, and the doctor just listened and said get out of bed and stretch your leg and it should go.

[PinkNinja in reply to Hidden]

I don't know how some people ever get to be doctors! Cramp is a warning sign, even if it is a warning sign of something relatively minor like temporarily low sodium due to warm weather. I believe a doctor should be looking into what is causing repeated cramps rather than telling you to stretch! That is appalling doctoring!

I hope the magnesium helps you

Carolyn x

[susie59]

i am hoping for some of your invaluable advice, i am hypo, and also have terrible joint and muscle pain, they think fibromyalgia, my supplements i take are,

25 mcg, vit D3,

super strength vit B complex,

co- enzyme Q 10 complex,

Omega 3 500 mg,

Ferritin,

Folic acid, and

selenium,

i hope i am taking all the right supplements to help my thyroid etc, and should i be taking magnesium also? i would be so grateful for any help, thanks,

[susie59 in reply to susie59]

Oops!i have just realised i should have done this question seperately, i am sorry to have jumped in, i will keep fingers crossed it may get a reply here, if not i will try in " questions" later,

[marram in reply to susie59]

I am athryeotic (Thyroid removed) and had 'fibromyalgia' or something like it - according to the doctor - because I complained that I could not even brush my hair without pain. I was also awake most nights with cramp. I found that eating a banana a day helped a bit with the cramp (but when I told the doctor that he laughed at me) but nothing helped with the pains whenever I tried to do any physical activity. Until I got an increase in my thyroxine. Much begging and nagging. long story.

Now pain with activity is almost gone and I get cramp at night possibly once a week or less. So! Was it fibromyalgia? Or under medication for the non-existent thyroid?

[Dannia in reply to susie59]

Hiya Susie,

I don't know your levels, but you may not be taking enough D3 to make a difference if you're really low.

Do you know if you have low B12 too?

Yes you should take magnesium too, it helps so much with aches and pains and helps some sleep too, I suppose because the aches ease up.

[susie59 in reply to Dannia]

thanks so much Dannia, this is really helpful, i will start taking it, as not taking any at all now, worth trying as you say,

[PinkNinja in reply to susie59]

Some people advise a maintenance dose of 1000mcg B12 if you are not deficient in B12, but more like 5000mcg if you are deficient. It is water-soluble so your body will just flush out any that you don't need so you shouldn't have a toxicity problem. Taking folic acid (but a smaller amount) can help too, but should always be taken with a good dose of B12 and never on its own, so I have read.

I have noticed a big improvement since taking 5000mcg daily

I hope you feel better soon.

[PinkNinja in reply to Dannia]

This is just what I would have said.

Go carefully with the magnesium because some people have side effects but it really does help many people. It helps with sleep because it reduces excess night-time cortisol if taken at night. It also relaxes the muscles and will help with the aches and pains, as you say. I found it basically cured my insomnia

[Heloise in reply to susie59]

susie, I would definitely take magnesium. Lately I have been using liquid magnesium chloride. Put a half teaspoon in any of your drinks throughout the day several times. Some people even have intravenous injections to bring up intracellular levels since it is hard to get it metabolized.

I often take 6000 i.u. of D3 which also likely to be deficient in hypothyroids.

Lately I've read that folate is better than folic acid which has its drawbacks but not absolutely certain about it yet.

[susie59 in reply to Heloise]

thanks Heloise, i am certainly going to try it, i will try anything to help myself have less pain or feel better, i ordered some but it is with vit C and B complex, i really wanted it on its own, perhaps i will try the liquid one you mention, thanks for the advice,

[Heloise in reply to susie59]

susie, is the vit c and b in your magnesium tablet? I've never seen that combination but am glad you are taking both. Keep in mind that magnesium is often used as a laxative because it's tendency is to zip through the body without any being absorbed. Some take the oxide form but I've always understood it is the cheapest and worst form for absorbability. Glycinate or Taurate are better but the liquid chloride seems to work well.

My personal opinion is that vitamin d3 in higher doses causes body aches. Maybe it means that it is working but you should take vitamin K2 and have enough calcium in your system also while high dosing but I can't tell if your 25mcg is a high dose or not.

[susie59 in reply to Heloise]

thanks for your reply Heloise, i take calcium with vit K and vit D, is calcium-400mg, vit D3- 2.5mcg, and vit K1- 30mcg, but i am also takinga seperate vit D3- 25mg and a vit B complex which includes vitB12- 250 mcg, and also taking omega3-500mg,

now i have ordered the magnesium with more Bi2 and also vit C, so i hope is ok to take the amounts i will be taking when all added together? really i am asking if its bad to take high doses of any vits mentioned? thanks so much for your help.

[susie59 in reply to susie59]

P.S i dont get cramps, just my fibromyalgia muscle aches and pains,

[Heloise in reply to susie59]

Hi susie, I am not that knowledgeable about some of those doses but this is what seems to be certain. We need magnesium and there is little chance of overdose since you will have diarrhea first. Omega 3's or essential fatty acids have to be found outside the body so fish oil or flaxseed oil are of benefit (over 1,000 mg). Also, little chance of overdosing. B12 really necessary, little chance of overdosing. K2 was rarely advised along /calcium and should have been.... now that they are finding calcifications in the wrong places. Also, not to worry much about overdosing since it seems to be very useful, however K1 which has to do with blood clotting, an expert should probably determine your dose on that because too much might be detrimental. A range of B vitamins should always be taken together even when you are high dosing on one or more.

Lately, calcium has become more suspect. It was wonderful for restless leg syndrome and I would take a calcium/magnesium pill (500 Mg) at night before bed but now I limit calcium to once or twice per week. But as you know calcium should be four hours apart from your thyroid medication.

PUSH FOR A VITAMIN D TEST AND BRING LEVEL UP, VERY IMPORTANT.

Best wishes, Susie.

[susie59 in reply to Heloise]

thanks very much Heloise, was very helpful! i will ask for tests i had them done about 18 months ago, so they must be due, heres hoping for less pain and no wobbly legs and an end to cramps,

[Jackie]

Hi Unfortunately some things work for some and not others. Calcium ( ie not tested and on vit D ) can at the least cause cramp Low ( below range sodium ( salt) always does.of course, that must not be above range either.potassium and magnesium also being electrolytes ( as other 2 ) are closely associated with this to. Without blood tests or trial and error , impossible to know. High calcium and low sodium ( below range ) cause my cramps.

Jackie

[ellarose1234 in reply to Jackie]

Yes you have to find out what works for you. It's nice to get people's ideas of just what can help and try them all out for yourself

[deb25426]

I been to the doctors several times about muscle spasms/cramps and to be honest he wasn't really interested! Did the ESR blood test and a couple of others too, nothing came form them,,,he did do my Vit d .thats ok! S hey ho just gotta get on with it. Oh he gave me diazepam for the muscle spasms!!

[Jackie in reply to deb25426]

Hi Years ago, I was told on the best authority not to take anything unless cause established as it can mask the problem. I always do this, however painful. I am not saying you should but if it were me ,I would not be satisfied with just ESR ( infection, eg arthritis)At the least a good idea to have U`s and E`s, kidney function including importantly Potassium and sodium, GFR which should be above 60 is the most important kidney test, all U`s and E`s. Also a magnesium test ( separate) and separate calcium test, it is the corrected calcium that counts. Vit D, of course too. B12 + folic acid and ferritin, fulld blood count? I hope this gives you some ideas.

Jackie

[deb25426 in reply to Jackie]

I don't take the diazepam unless I'm in a full blown back spasm, and I only take pain killers when absolutely necessary.. I am allergic to so much stuff I'm careful! Had my kidney function done last month ok but all the others will jot down and ask Doc about.. Thanx

[susie59 in reply to Jackie]

thanks Jackie, i have my d3 tested and U and Es, so just want to try magnesium for muscle pain, and fibro pain,

[Jackie in reply to susie59]

susie

There is a blood test for magnesium as a tiny range.It is important as an electrolyte, which especially effects heart and potassium and sodium, so has to be in range It is true that a blood test is not perfect. However, I have to have mine checked weekly as on Magnesium ( script) drip when in hospital. My treatment does register clearly with my magnesium test.

Best wishes,

Jackie

[Dannia]

drhyman.com/blog/2010/05/20...

[ellarose1234]

Thank you Dannia. That is a VERY interesting site. Magnesium seems to be magic!

[ellarose1234]

I think I might write a "Ideas to help with cramp" book...perhaps It will be a best seller????

[fennel]

I find that I will stretch when my magnesium is low, and use it as a sign to take a bit more. It is a good thing to take some vitamin K2 mk 4 or mk 7 if you can, the action of this vitamin is to make sure that the calcium is put into the bones and is not in soft tissues or arteries. Vitamin d needs both magnesium and vitamin K2. I take 5,000iu a day of vitamin d which is what most people need in winter.

Natural sources of vitamin K2 is gouda cheese, and liver, particularly goose liver if you can find it, possibly as pate.

[phyliss43]

Thank you for this information, I have had terrible muscle cramps for the past six years but my Doctor has never told me to take Magnesium or any other vitamins. Mine is a very long story about the thyroid but will not bore you all, am now 69 and still discovering things since being part of Thyroid UK. Thank you.

[ellarose1234 in reply to phyliss43]

I was in the dark until I realised my doctor was an idiot. Then I found this site and did a lot of homework, gave my doctor the push and went to another surgery. Gradually I have been learning, reading and asking questions and it all seems to be coming together. I wish everyone could know about Thyroid UK and get the help most of us need. Doctors take advantage of ignorance so it's up to we sufferers to know more about our problem than they do. never take "normal" for an answer

Good luck (and magnesium etc!) with the cramp. It's so wonderful to be free of it and be able to stretch in the mornings...or any other time come to that.

[Renee135]

Oh wow I'm so glad I found this. I'm taking 50,000 IU once a week for the next three months. My vitamin D is 18. I'm on the 3rd week and just started getting muscle cramps in my left leg. I going to up my magnesium. Thanks for posting this!!

[Clutter]

I was on a loading dose of 40,000iu for a week followed by 2,000iu daily for 8 weeks and it sorted most of my muscle weakness and joint pains. I love the way my skin plumped out and my colour improved. I didn't start taking magnesium and zinc until 6 weeks after I supplemented vitD so I give full credit to vitD Hip and knee pain resumed 6 weeks after I stopped supplementing vitD so I'm back on 5,000iu daily. which solved it again.

[____]

I'm so annoyed. I read all the way through the article surprised at what I was hearing; and then I see the source. I should have realized from the illiterate barely comprehensible typography that the person wasn't medically trained, and that it was some woo peddling pseudo-science nonsense. It's really dangerous perpetuating myths that aren't based on evidence based research; especially on health sites which are often filled with hypochondriacs afflicted with Dunning-Kruger effect skewing their view (DKE is pretty much the psychiatric cause as to why people who know very little speak with such a self applied authority on things as though they know for a fact X, where as people who know the most about things tend to doubt what they do know or underestimate their skill just as those with no skill overestimate theirs, google it it's really interesting and explains 'those people' like conspiracy theorists etc!)

[purple64]

Just started 50,000 iu vitamin d3 can I take magnesium 350mg at the same time as both say take with main meal