My mother (67yrs old) has finally taken a private blood test, after countless dismissals from her doctor that her symptoms are due to 'just getting older' 🙄.
She is not on any medication. She does take many vitamins, but I don't have a list.
I know this is usually not a useful measure, but it came with the test. It's the only out of so called normal-range value.
She felt extremely poorly last year, is much better now, but still with many symptoms. The symptom she brings up a lot is night sweats (when menopause seems well in her past), so any advice on night sweats would be very appreciated too.
Thanks for your help.
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Dandelions
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Hi Dandelions sorry your mam isn’t so good. I’m sure you’ll get lots of helpful advice here. My non expert view is that those results don’t shout hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism and not much sign of thyroid autoimmunity. I doubt any doctor would treat thyroid problems in those results. She really does deserve to be treated seriously and she deserves to have the night sweats investigated, any chance she could see another GP and any chance she could have a full work up of bloods (not just thyroid)? Night sweats are not caused by old age as you and your mam well know, can you stand your ground and insist on full investigation and an explanation. God luck.
I appreciate your kind words. She did have full work up of bloods. I think sometimes that's the problem, as they overlook what's right in their face. They refused a full thyroid panel.
Once the TSH goes over 2 symptoms of hypothyroidism can start creeping in and years ago you would be diagnosed and started on T4 thyroid hormone replacement when the TSH went over 3.
I think we need a TSH over 10 - or if with positive antibodies you may get treated with a TSH over 5 on 2 blood tests showing a similar level some 2 months apart.
A euthyroid - normal functioning thyroid would have a TSH at around 1.20/1.50 with a T4 at around 50% through it's range with the T3 tracking just behind at around 45% through its range.
Your Mum's T3 and T4 results are inverted / back to front showing a higher T3 than T4 and meaning her body is under stress and not producing enough T4 to preserve a good level of T3.
T3 is the active hormone that runs the body and is preserved over T4 levels as basically T4 is more of a storage hormone and circulating in the blood to be converted to T3 and as when needed.
It is too low a level of T3 that causes the symptoms of hypothyroidism just as too high a level of T3 would start causing symptoms of hyperthyroidism.
I now aim to maintain my ferritin at around 100 - folate at around 20 - active B12 125 ( serum B12 500 ++ ) and vitamin D at around 125.
Reverse T3 is unconverted, surplus T4 and believe this not a problem and simply confirms very low levels of T4.
I'm afraid your Mum may not get acknowledged as having hypothyroidism as very rarely is more than a TSH run by the NHS and with a TSH in the range most doctors find their hands tied.
With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement
A week later add a separate vitamin B ComplexÂ
Then once serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), she may be able to reduce then stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.
If Vegetarian or vegan likely to need ongoing separate B12 few times a week
Thorne Basic B recommended vitamin B complex that contains folate, but they are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule) Thorne can be difficult to find at reasonable price, should be around £20-£25. iherb.com often have in stock. Or try ebay
IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 5-7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results
In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate folate supplement (eg Jarrow methyl folate 400mcg) and continue separate B12
Post discussing how biotin can affect test results
I know she takes B12, so I will find out which one and report back.
Only folic acid got measured, not folate. 23.6 nmol/l (10.4 -42.4).
I have the MTHFR gene, so my mam might as well.
Her first deep plunge health wise was right after she had had covid. I always wondered if covid had set off a b12 deficiency somehow, as so many of her symptoms seemed to fit b12 issues. But doctors have treated her with prednison.
An Australian researcher who is and was healthy, caught Covid and got over it in 2 days. He checked markers , which I think were his B vitamins, and they didn't return to normal for 4 months.
There was a post a month or two back where a Club12 or ClubB12 was mentioned, which I think meets on Zoom or similar at 4p.m. on a Friday , or something like that, and is for medical professionals. Part of what was reported was that Covid trashes all your B vitamins, especially B12. A G.P. in the Lake District, who is part of the group, states that in all instances of Long Covid he has seen, they have low B vitamins, and always B12 is too low. In my personal opinion, I think if you have had Covid, it will have attacked the thyroid too.
The Australian researcher was Dr.Greg Russell-Jones. I think he may have mentioned it in a video on YouTube. There are about 8 videos he has made with another person which are associated more with Autism of which B12 deficiency is a big part. So the videos are great from a B12 point of view. He is involved in helping an Autism Parent Self Help Group in England.
The Lake District G.P. didn't have that post until recently. I think he was considering seeing private patients again and if anyone was interested in consulting him you could email the vitamin company , Cytoplan???, who were prepared to pass on messages to him. I think he had possible personal reasons where he had not been seeing patients for a while. He seemed a terrific medical professional , so I searched the internet and found he is actually working in a Lake District G.P. surgery, currently.
Took me a while to find the G.P.'s name. He is much more than a G.P. and I was really impressed with the video , the link for which is: vimeo.com/891099138/4150efa...
It is Dr.David Morris:Understanding the complexities and central role of B12 in health and life. It is absolutely excellent! I wish he was my G.P.
humanbean . Have tagged you as you liked previous comment and might have missed the link for the vimeo video.
Did she stop the multi vitamin for a few days before testing? Biotin can skew the results and is often in multi vitamins.
I have had nightsweats most of my life, they are definitely better despite being perimenopausal. I’m taking separate methyfolate and methyl B12 tablets plus also follow advice from the PA forum to inject B12 twice a week. My thyroid hormones are also optimal these days.
That said, the other things that make me sweat through the night are:
Sugar in all forms, I stick to fruit during the day but not in the evenings. No pop, sweets, cake or biscuits for me, just very dark chocolate. Especially not after about 5pm in the evenings.
alcohol- particularly Prosecco type wines any wine really, the sulphites make me feel awful too. I will sweat all night after a spritzer.
Caffeine- in red bull types drinks, cokes, coffee and tea, I’ll literally sweat till I have a puddle between my boobs. 🤣 decaff all the way for me.
Bedding - poly cotton sheets are like sleeping in plastic for me, any plastic mattress protectors are too and I can’t deal with memory foam. Wake up dripping, I have a wool topper, wool duvet and wool pillow all year round they are great for temperature regulation. 100% cotton sheets, not too high thread count or they go a bit shiny/slimy. In fact the old winciette or brushed cotton are ideal.
Pyjamas are a nightmare, 100% cotton pjs get wet and don’t dry, viscose works a treat for PJs some good ones in Asda and M&S.
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