Hi I am about to trial armour from smartway labs does anyone have any info regarding this medication please. Bit worried about taking it tbh . Thank you.
Armour meds: Hi I am about to trial armour from... - Thyroid UK
Armour meds
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moljanie
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SlowDragonAdministrator
posts that mention Armour
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How much Armour are you starting on. Have you been told to split the dose - start with just half dose in morning initially
Then after 3-5 days add remainder of dose in afternoon
Previous post here
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Where it was explained you started on too high a dose levothyroxine at 75mcg
Which brand was your levothyroxine
Teva is currently only brand that makes 75mcg tablets and Teva brand upsets many many people
Many members have note added to all prescriptions…..”no Teva Levothyroxine “
How old are you
Standard starting dose levothyroxine is 50mcg ….or 25mcg if over 60-65 years old. Significant number of people need to start on even lower dose of 25mcg ……or sometimes even 12.5mcg and increase very SLOWLY over 6-12 months
ESSENTIAL to maintain GOOD vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin levels too
Helps to tolerate increasing replacement thyroid hormones as we need GOOD vitamin levels to be able to convert Ft4 to Ft3
When were these last tested
Please add most recent results
High thyroid antibodies confirms autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s
Extremely common to benefit or find it essential to be on gluten free diet and/or dairy free diet as well
Hello Moljanie :
Looking back you were diagnosed Graves Disease some years ago and refused RAI thyroid ablation and it seems your thyroid has now burnt itself out - leaving you hypothyroid.
How did you get on with the bovine supplements - some forum members do very well on these -
You also have tried T4 but I think I saw your doctor hesitant to prescribe T3 because of your having Graves Disease - which I don't really understand - but anyway -
Armour is the leading brand of Natural Desiccated thyroid and contains a fixed ratio of 1/4.22 T3/T4 and works very well for many thousands of people.
What dose of NDT has been prescribed and what thyroid hormone replacement are you currently taking and do you have some bench marks readings of where your TSH + T3 and T4 currently sit ?
No thyroid hormone replacement works well until ferritin, folate. B12 and vitamin D are up and maintained at optimal levels -
Do you have any current reading of these so we can advise where ' optimal ' tends to ' sit ' for those of us dealing with hypothyroidism ?
From your last post it appears you have over range antibodies indicative of Hashimoto's - did you know this ?
Hi thankyou to you and slow dragon for responding . Latest results. FT3 4 (3.1-6.8) Down from 4.7 last results
Ft4 16.4 (12-22) Down from 17 last results
TGA 237 (0-115. Down from 369 last results
TPO 600 ( 0-34) No change from last results. Thyroid doc has stated Hashimotos due to carbimazole being taken for years at low dose of 5mg . High antibodies so auto immune . Levo not given as bad reaction it was teva 75mg . Felt dreadful. So the same thyroid doctor who prescribed teva is now trialling me on Armour 1 grain split into 2 doses daily . Tiredness and terrible joint pain and shaking are my main symptoms. Thyroid Doc states shaking is caused by functioning on cortisol which I am inclined to think also. Nhs gp wants me to see a neurologist concerning the shaking which I don't want to do as feel it could complicate things . I am 58 and 3 years into menopause which probably has an effect also . Just feeling a bit anxious about things really ATM. Thankyou for all your help on here
Yes cortisol issues likely behind trembling
What are your recent vitamin results
Always worth trialing gluten free
Hi latest ferritin 88.2 (11-307)Folate 11.64 (3.00-20)
B12 934. ( 145-914).
These were from March. nhs tests by gp .
So these are pretty good
What vitamins are you supplementing
No vitamin D?
I am taking b complex magnesium and just started vit d again as I stopped that. Thyroid doc wants bloods done in 6 weeks . 1grain to be taken as am and pm split dose . Pm to be taken between 2pm - 3pm .Next blood test to include vitamin levels . Follow up appt 8 weeks .
Ok - so these results are those already posted 2 months ago :
I don't know how an Anti Thyroid drug causes an Auto Immune Disease - Hashimoto's ?
Being on an Anti Thyroid for some length of time might down regulate your thyroid function - though we have research that does not mention this :-
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/338...
I'm wondering if you ever had Graves and were misdiagnosed and have always had Hashimotos as both these auto immune diseases start off the same way -
and you can only know it's Graves by running the Graves antibody blood test -
can you look back and see if you ever had a positive / over range TSH Thyroid Receptor reading or it might read as a TRab or TSI reading and cut off number ?
So presume this thyroid doctor is monitoring you on the NDT - what does s/he suggest - as if under supervision I'd tend to follow what has been recommended by the specialist.
Some people take NDT once a day - others take it twice a day :
I have Graves but had RAI thyroid ablation which I totally regret but anyway -
I switched from 125 mcg T4 one day to 1/2 grain NDT the following day.
I self medicate and monitored myself on blood pressure, pulse and body temperature AM & PM throughout this experiment - and I did not split my dose and increased by 1/4 grains weekly :
There comes a week where you feel a bit uncomfortable in your skin and edgey - so you drop back down to the previous weeks dose - stay on that dose 6-8 weeks - and then run a blood test to see what is going on.
I got to 1 3/4 grains but didn't feel right so dropped down to 1 + 1/2 grains - stayed on this dose 8 weeks and throughout this experiment my pulse and blood pressure remained constant and my temperature rose from 35.4 to 36.6 where it is today some 6 years on.
With NDT you track on the T3 and you should find that your T3 reading is proportionately higher with your T4 proportionately lower - than when taking synthetic T4 - Levothyroxine.
For example - in my case my T3 and T4 simply changed places and now my T3 is at around 90/110 % through its range with my T4 at around 25/30% through its range.
If you get to 2 grains you then need to stay on this dose for 8 weeks and then run a blood test to see what's going on.
If your T3 has moved and you are feeling improved and going in the right direction - but not ' just there yet ' continue slowly building up your dose from 2 grains by 1/4 grains -
If your T3 hasn't moved much and you are still with no relief of any symptoms maybe NDT not the best treatment option for you -
which then just leaves T3 only medication - which is the last treatment option.
Some people with Hashimoto's find they can't tolerate NDT as introducing this natural thyroid product upsets their immune system further as with Hashimoto's you are liable to ' swings ' in symptoms and erratic own thyroid hormone production as this AI disease systematically disables your thyroid.
You might like to read around on Hashimoto's as it does appear with this auto immune disease healing the gut and getting checked out for various food intolerances a necessary step and to first heal the gut and build back up the essential core strength vitamins and minerals.
Many forum members follow the research and suggestions of Dr Izabella Wentz who writes as thyroidpharmacist.com
Thankyou. I was never given any blood results whilst treated for graves. I just accepted the endos word and put all my trust in him . The only thing I refused was rai that's why he kept me on carbimazole. I was always told bloods were in range but recently I got access to my gp records via patient access. Hardly any blood results on there despite twice yearly testing . One result of over 12 for tsh in 2016 is showing on there but no one ever told me that . Where are all my results from testing over the years I wonder to myself . I now run my own testing as gp is not agreeing that thyroid is a problem .I think carbimazole changed my liver function in some way and that's why I feel so bad today .
One result of over 12 for tsh in 2016 is showing on there but no one ever told me that . Where are all my results from testing over the years I wonder to myself . I now run my own testing as gp is not agreeing that thyroid is a problem
Definitely worth seeing if you can track more results down
TSH over 3 would warrant reducing Carbimazole…..never mind TSH over 12!
I couldn't believe it when I saw that result and I was kept on carbimazole for another year . Looking back on old photos I can clearly see I was hypothyroid . I feel like I've been used as a guinea pig by that endo tbh. It's only from all the advice on here that I've been able to help myself and understand thyroid problems. Eternally thankful to you all
Just found more tsh results . August 2016 4.62. October 2016 12.49. July 2017 3.80. October 2017 3.49 when I was discharged from his care .No wonder I've felt dreadful all this time . He kept me on that for what I ask 😌
Quite likely that you never had Graves’ disease
Hashimoto’s frequently starts with transient hyperthyroid results and symptoms before becoming increasingly hypothyroid
Yes I'm thinking the same now I have some knowledge and understanding. This forum has saved my health from deteriation .
I'm guessing you meant this reply for me - please ensure when replying to someone, rather than making a general comment to all forum members, that you reply in the persons post to you - using their reply button - as then they notified there is a message for them - otherwise it's pot luck if they came back to an answered question.
I don't know much about liver - how many years have been off the AT drug - and what problem with your liver are you referring to ?
Oh I'm sorry about that did not mean to reply generally. 14 years on low dose carbimazole . Stopped in Oct 2017. I just have a feeling it damaged my liver in the respect of conversion . I also think carbimazole or some ingredients in it gave thyroid eye disease . Just a feeling I get when I think about all my symptoms .
No worries - so you also have Thyroid Eye Disease - this evolves independently of either Graves or Hashimoto's - with forum members getting these horrible eye issues - I'm so sorry we haven't the full facts to work from :
Please ensure that whatever eye ointment or drops you may use to ease the pain and other symptoms that all are Preservative Free - even those prescribed.
Do you know of the Thyroid Eye Disease Charitable trust - tedct.org.uk ?
They can signpost you to specialised clinics throughout the country, generally attached to the larger teaching hospitals, where you should find both an endo and an optician in this specialised field who work together to advise on the best dose and treatment option for you to be taking.
P.S. Just thought - has your NHS doctor ever suggested you try liquid T4 -
maybe that's another option that needs considering moljanie
I did have it in my left eye no treatment offered for it . Upon stopping carbimazole it has improved greatly to what it was . Thankfully because it was dreadful to live with .
Yes - I developed TED after RAI thyroid ablation :
Have you ever had liquid T4 - maybe you could tolerate that - as it would give you more treatment options ?
What a long battle for you. I have no specialised input as i'm not clued up like these super cookies on here with their valuable knowledge and advice 😊😊 I'm just shocked you found a doctor who will actually prescribe Armour. 😲I eventually got a private script for it but I have stopped taking it as its just too expensive for me, even though it's definitely the only ndt that seemed to agree with me without giving me palpations and hot sweats. Because I need over 90mg the price went up a lot to around £250 so now back on Thyroid S and struggling 😒 Hopefully Armour will work well for you, as it does seem to suit a lot of people.x😊
Armour has been a game-changer for me after a dreadful time on Levo. I increased my dose incredibly slowly and am now stable on 2.5 grains per day. All the very best for your recovery.
good luck with Armour. I love it and it’s given me my life back. The T3 in the product is fast release so I took a half dose for at least a week then built up to the full dose.
Hi there do you have to buy it yourself or lucky enough to get it on the nhs ?
Fast release? It's normally referred to as slow release because it's bound. And my own experience of it is that it is a slow and gentle release compared to Liiothyronine. There is no sudden "hit" with it. I love that aspect of Armour.
I think it was the fast release T3 in Armour that made my heart feel as if it was going to pop out of my chest, at least I think that’s what the Endo explained to me, it was a few years ago now. Halving my dose and building up slowly was an easy solution for me. Thrilled with the product. That’s why I am now hypohappy!
I live with permanent atrial fibrillation and Armour T3 slowed my heart down, which was good because it was running around 90-100 bpm all the time. It's definitely a gentle T3. Your endo got that wrong I think. I could feel pure T3 hit me about 10-15 minutes after I took it. It felt like a hit and then ran out just as quickly at the other end. I know we are all different but synthetic T3 with Levo and on it's own was really tough on me.
hi moljanie
I’ve been taking Armour for over two years now and for me it has been transformative. I spent years on levythyroxine arguing with my gps about my continuing symptoms and trying to understand why I felt so awful all of the time. I had the good fortune to discover a lovely Dr who practiced privately and tried the nutri products which did improve my symptoms to some degree. I then found the Thyroid clinic trialed the armour and have never looked back really. I’m not saying it’s a miracle cure and it may not work for everyone but it has made a huge difference for me. I’m also able to have an intelligent conversation with a doctor who understands the condition because she has it. I’m currently adding in some T3 as I’m not converting well at present but this situation is far far removed from where I was 10 years ago. Good luck I hope it works well for you too!
Hi indigoose. Good to hear your experience. Do you self fund as well ? I need to find a doctor who actually believes in the product although my endo does prescribe she isn't believer and won't increase the dose although my last results said I needed the increase which was confirmed on here abd my other thyroid support group 😭
Would you recommend having an appointment with her? She keeps cropping up. My HRT doctor recommended her to me in January. I use Armour, but can't get my dose right.
Hi Fancypants54
I would absolutely recommend she’s very knowledgeable owing to being a Hashi sufferer herself and very easy to chat to. She actually listens to what you tell her!!😮
Her clinic is expanding quite fast so she now has other doctors working with her under her supervision. It isn’t cheap but the relief of someone listening and recognising what you’re telling them is with every penny!
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Thanks. Trouble is I've acquired a private Endo, a private HRT clinic and have to pay for a phone consult with Roseway Labs prescribing pharmacist to get prescriptions for the meds I use. They are racking up quite a bill between them. I could switch the endo for the clinic you use, but he's handy for other things too! I need to win the pools.
Yes it is an expensive business having to pay for your own healthcare we should be able to get a tax refund!🤣
Hello Moljanie,I've been on Armour for 16yrs. Great stuff! Going onto dessicated thyroid extract transformed my life. Levothyroxine, no matter the dose didnt help greatly adding liothyronine in did but I never felt even.....but DTE for me made me feel normal once again.
Am not sure why your specialist is splitting your dose into two. I havent found that to be necessary because the T3 content in Armour has a much sloper uptake/drop than in the synthectic liothyronine. Your endo may not know this..... Anyway bare this in mind.
I take my Armour in one dose first thing in the morning with water.
Good luck
Hi that's good to hear . I'm worried about taking it tbh it arrives today .... levo made me feel terrible could not function on it at all . Fed up of feeling rubbish so agreed to trial it . Glad you are getting on well with it . Thankyou Did you get any side effects on starting at all .
Don't be scared of it. It is an altogether different proposition to Levo. I would just cut a tablet in half and take half in the morning for a week and then add in the other half. Just to let your body learn it's getting some T3.
I split my dose. I tried taking it all at once and felt good in the morning but ran out of steam entirely in the afternoon. We are supposed to take it on an empty stomach so need to leave at least an hour before and after taking it which makes taking it early afternoon hard. So I take my second dose at 5pm. However I do get tired earlier than that and should probably pull it back to around 3-3:30 and see if that helps.
I have had reactions to Levo and Lio but not to NDT. The only time I go anxious by taking too much was when a much loved doctor had me on glandulars for a while and then switched me straight into 2 grains a day. Day 1 was lovely! Day 2 was anxiety on a stick! So you will be fine starting off low and slow.
Thankyou. Yes slowly does it . Going to follow that advice. Stayvwell.
My advice would be to increase quite slowly, especially if you are currently unmedicated. Some private GPs advise to increase 1/4 grain every couple of days, but as pennyannie said, many form members think that is too fast and certainly caused me some problems.
Hi, I just started on 2 grains of NDT on Friday. It's going well so far. People can get symptoms of anxiety, panic & palpitations due to T3 & an increase in cortisol over the 1st 2 weeks, I think this is due to T3 being a bit of a shock to the system and that's why people build it up gradually. I was already on a bit T3 so I was started on 2 grains. So take it easy the 1st 2 weeks.I was prescribed NDT by private Endochrinologist Georgina Conway, who herself recovered from Hashimotos with NDT.
I recommend reading Paul Robinson's blog or books on thyroidism. They're good all round guide on how to get better, from tips on recording temp and blood pressure to supplements and even cortisol. He was medically retired at a young age with Hypothyroidism but found a way to get better and get his life back. I hope the NDT works for you too.
Armour literally saved my life but then it was produced by Forest I believe. Since the problems caused by the swine flu epidemic and since it was taken over it stopped working for me and I had to go on a T4, T3 combo which has worked but nowhere near as effectively as Armour once was!
Thankyou. Am feeling reassured by all the great advice received on here from you all.
Hi moljanie. I can only give you my personal experience. I am a poor converter of T4 to T3. As my doctor was totally disinterested in giving me anything other than levothyroxine I bit the bullet and went to a private endocrinologist and was prescribed Armour. I did have a few teething problems getting the right dosage and as others have mentioned had to ensure I had to take vitamin supplements, particularly vitamin D and iron citrate. Along with silica as I had brittle nails and thinning hair. I did find my energy levels and overall well-being improved. However, my bank balance did not as it is very expensive. After two years I could no longer afford it and my endocrinologist changed me to ERFA which is made in Canada. I was a bit nervous about the change as I had done so well on Armour. Fortunately I didn’t notice any difference but my bank balance did and I’m now in the black again.
As I say this is just my experience. Good luck with the Armour and I hope it works well for you. 😊
Thankyou.
It is good to read you have found a good replacement for Armour. I take NP thyroid--generic Armour (very clean w/just 3 excipients). I think Armour will rise at the end of this decade as the FDA (drug regulatory agency in US) is requiring producers of NDT to apply for a Biologic Licensing Agreement (BLA). When I looked up the cost of the licensing agreement a while back it was near half a million US$$. They will want their ROI. Abbvie has applied, but I've not seen where the mfgr of NP has applied. To Canada I may go!
That does not sound good news about Armour. If you do decide to change to ERFA then I hope all goes well.
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