Armour meds

[moljanie]

Hi I am about to trial armour from smartway labs does anyone have any info regarding this medication please. Bit worried about taking it tbh . Thank you.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

posts that mention Armour

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How much Armour are you starting on. Have you been told to split the dose - start with just half dose in morning initially

Then after 3-5 days add remainder of dose in afternoon

Previous post here

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Where it was explained you started on too high a dose levothyroxine at 75mcg

Which brand was your levothyroxine

Teva is currently only brand that makes 75mcg tablets and Teva brand upsets many many people

Many members have note added to all prescriptions…..”no Teva Levothyroxine “

How old are you

Standard starting dose levothyroxine is 50mcg ….or 25mcg if over 60-65 years old. Significant number of people need to start on even lower dose of 25mcg ……or sometimes even 12.5mcg and increase very SLOWLY over 6-12 months

ESSENTIAL to maintain GOOD vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin levels too

Helps to tolerate increasing replacement thyroid hormones as we need GOOD vitamin levels to be able to convert Ft4 to Ft3

When were these last tested

Please add most recent results

High thyroid antibodies confirms autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s

Extremely common to benefit or find it essential to be on gluten free diet and/or dairy free diet as well

[pennyannie]

Hello Moljanie :

Looking back you were diagnosed Graves Disease some years ago and refused RAI thyroid ablation and it seems your thyroid has now burnt itself out - leaving you hypothyroid.

How did you get on with the bovine supplements - some forum members do very well on these -

You also have tried T4 but I think I saw your doctor hesitant to prescribe T3 because of your having Graves Disease - which I don't really understand - but anyway -

Armour is the leading brand of Natural Desiccated thyroid and contains a fixed ratio of 1/4.22 T3/T4 and works very well for many thousands of people.

What dose of NDT has been prescribed and what thyroid hormone replacement are you currently taking and do you have some bench marks readings of where your TSH + T3 and T4 currently sit ?

No thyroid hormone replacement works well until ferritin, folate. B12 and vitamin D are up and maintained at optimal levels -

Do you have any current reading of these so we can advise where ' optimal ' tends to ' sit ' for those of us dealing with hypothyroidism ?

From your last post it appears you have over range antibodies indicative of Hashimoto's - did you know this ?

[moljanie in reply to pennyannie]

Hi thankyou to you and slow dragon for responding . Latest results. FT3 4 (3.1-6.8) Down from 4.7 last results

Ft4 16.4 (12-22) Down from 17 last results

TGA 237 (0-115. Down from 369 last results

TPO 600 ( 0-34) No change from last results. Thyroid doc has stated Hashimotos due to carbimazole being taken for years at low dose of 5mg . High antibodies so auto immune . Levo not given as bad reaction it was teva 75mg . Felt dreadful. So the same thyroid doctor who prescribed teva is now trialling me on Armour 1 grain split into 2 doses daily . Tiredness and terrible joint pain and shaking are my main symptoms. Thyroid Doc states shaking is caused by functioning on cortisol which I am inclined to think also. Nhs gp wants me to see a neurologist concerning the shaking which I don't want to do as feel it could complicate things . I am 58 and 3 years into menopause which probably has an effect also . Just feeling a bit anxious about things really ATM. Thankyou for all your help on here

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to moljanie]

Yes cortisol issues likely behind trembling

What are your recent vitamin results

Always worth trialing gluten free

[moljanie in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi latest ferritin 88.2 (11-307)Folate 11.64 (3.00-20)

B12 934. ( 145-914).

These were from March. nhs tests by gp .

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to moljanie]

So these are pretty good

What vitamins are you supplementing

No vitamin D?

[moljanie in reply to SlowDragon]

I am taking b complex magnesium and just started vit d again as I stopped that. Thyroid doc wants bloods done in 6 weeks . 1grain to be taken as am and pm split dose . Pm to be taken between 2pm - 3pm .Next blood test to include vitamin levels . Follow up appt 8 weeks .

[pennyannie in reply to moljanie]

Ok - so these results are those already posted 2 months ago :

I don't know how an Anti Thyroid drug causes an Auto Immune Disease - Hashimoto's ?

Being on an Anti Thyroid for some length of time might down regulate your thyroid function - though we have research that does not mention this :-

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/338...

I'm wondering if you ever had Graves and were misdiagnosed and have always had Hashimotos as both these auto immune diseases start off the same way -

and you can only know it's Graves by running the Graves antibody blood test -

can you look back and see if you ever had a positive / over range TSH Thyroid Receptor reading or it might read as a TRab or TSI reading and cut off number ?

So presume this thyroid doctor is monitoring you on the NDT - what does s/he suggest - as if under supervision I'd tend to follow what has been recommended by the specialist.

Some people take NDT once a day - others take it twice a day :

I have Graves but had RAI thyroid ablation which I totally regret but anyway -

I switched from 125 mcg T4 one day to 1/2 grain NDT the following day.

I self medicate and monitored myself on blood pressure, pulse and body temperature AM & PM throughout this experiment - and I did not split my dose and increased by 1/4 grains weekly :

There comes a week where you feel a bit uncomfortable in your skin and edgey - so you drop back down to the previous weeks dose - stay on that dose 6-8 weeks - and then run a blood test to see what is going on.

I got to 1 3/4 grains but didn't feel right so dropped down to 1 + 1/2 grains - stayed on this dose 8 weeks and throughout this experiment my pulse and blood pressure remained constant and my temperature rose from 35.4 to 36.6 where it is today some 6 years on.

With NDT you track on the T3 and you should find that your T3 reading is proportionately higher with your T4 proportionately lower - than when taking synthetic T4 - Levothyroxine.

For example - in my case my T3 and T4 simply changed places and now my T3 is at around 90/110 % through its range with my T4 at around 25/30% through its range.

If you get to 2 grains you then need to stay on this dose for 8 weeks and then run a blood test to see what's going on.

If your T3 has moved and you are feeling improved and going in the right direction - but not ' just there yet ' continue slowly building up your dose from 2 grains by 1/4 grains -

If your T3 hasn't moved much and you are still with no relief of any symptoms maybe NDT not the best treatment option for you -

which then just leaves T3 only medication - which is the last treatment option.

Some people with Hashimoto's find they can't tolerate NDT as introducing this natural thyroid product upsets their immune system further as with Hashimoto's you are liable to ' swings ' in symptoms and erratic own thyroid hormone production as this AI disease systematically disables your thyroid.

You might like to read around on Hashimoto's as it does appear with this auto immune disease healing the gut and getting checked out for various food intolerances a necessary step and to first heal the gut and build back up the essential core strength vitamins and minerals.

Many forum members follow the research and suggestions of Dr Izabella Wentz who writes as thyroidpharmacist.com

[moljanie]

Thankyou. I was never given any blood results whilst treated for graves. I just accepted the endos word and put all my trust in him . The only thing I refused was rai that's why he kept me on carbimazole. I was always told bloods were in range but recently I got access to my gp records via patient access. Hardly any blood results on there despite twice yearly testing . One result of over 12 for tsh in 2016 is showing on there but no one ever told me that . Where are all my results from testing over the years I wonder to myself . I now run my own testing as gp is not agreeing that thyroid is a problem .I think carbimazole changed my liver function in some way and that's why I feel so bad today .

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to moljanie]

One result of over 12 for tsh in 2016 is showing on there but no one ever told me that . Where are all my results from testing over the years I wonder to myself . I now run my own testing as gp is not agreeing that thyroid is a problem

Definitely worth seeing if you can track more results down

TSH over 3 would warrant reducing Carbimazole…..never mind TSH over 12!

[moljanie in reply to SlowDragon]

I couldn't believe it when I saw that result and I was kept on carbimazole for another year . Looking back on old photos I can clearly see I was hypothyroid . I feel like I've been used as a guinea pig by that endo tbh. It's only from all the advice on here that I've been able to help myself and understand thyroid problems. Eternally thankful to you all

[moljanie in reply to SlowDragon]

Just found more tsh results . August 2016 4.62. October 2016 12.49. July 2017 3.80. October 2017 3.49 when I was discharged from his care .No wonder I've felt dreadful all this time . He kept me on that for what I ask 😌

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to moljanie]

Quite likely that you never had Graves’ disease

Hashimoto’s frequently starts with transient hyperthyroid results and symptoms before becoming increasingly hypothyroid

[moljanie in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes I'm thinking the same now I have some knowledge and understanding. This forum has saved my health from deteriation .

[pennyannie in reply to moljanie]

I'm guessing you meant this reply for me - please ensure when replying to someone, rather than making a general comment to all forum members, that you reply in the persons post to you - using their reply button - as then they notified there is a message for them - otherwise it's pot luck if they came back to an answered question.

I don't know much about liver - how many years have been off the AT drug - and what problem with your liver are you referring to ?

[moljanie in reply to pennyannie]

Oh I'm sorry about that did not mean to reply generally. 14 years on low dose carbimazole . Stopped in Oct 2017. I just have a feeling it damaged my liver in the respect of conversion . I also think carbimazole or some ingredients in it gave thyroid eye disease . Just a feeling I get when I think about all my symptoms .

[pennyannie in reply to moljanie]

No worries - so you also have Thyroid Eye Disease - this evolves independently of either Graves or Hashimoto's - with forum members getting these horrible eye issues - I'm so sorry we haven't the full facts to work from :

Please ensure that whatever eye ointment or drops you may use to ease the pain and other symptoms that all are Preservative Free - even those prescribed.

Do you know of the Thyroid Eye Disease Charitable trust - tedct.org.uk ?

They can signpost you to specialised clinics throughout the country, generally attached to the larger teaching hospitals, where you should find both an endo and an optician in this specialised field who work together to advise on the best dose and treatment option for you to be taking.

P.S. Just thought - has your NHS doctor ever suggested you try liquid T4 -

maybe that's another option that needs considering  moljanie

[moljanie in reply to pennyannie]

I did have it in my left eye no treatment offered for it . Upon stopping carbimazole it has improved greatly to what it was . Thankfully because it was dreadful to live with .

[pennyannie in reply to moljanie]

Yes - I developed TED after RAI thyroid ablation :

Have you ever had liquid T4 - maybe you could tolerate that - as it would give you more treatment options ?