hi all
I started armour about 2 weeks ago and now on 1/12 grains morning and a grain afternoon. This is after 30 years on Levo and according to the doctor thyroid burnout. I have been acutely sensitive to the cold recently but the thing that is bothering me is the low level cold symptoms in particular sore/dry throat all the time . Anyone else had difficulties ? Thanks alot
Sizzles22, Can you clarify your total dose please, it looks like 2.5 grains daily, is that correct? Or is it 1.5 grains daily?
thanks RedApple yes 2 and half daily. Coming from 125 mg levo and for years on 300mg levo ..
Thanks. That's a high dose to be on after just a couple of weeks. It may be that you've increased too fast and your system can't tolerate such a rapid change of hormone. As Armour contains T3, it would be usual to start low and increase more slowly.
I just followed the GP guidance - not sure if I should take the dose down or wait for bloods at 9 weeks. Thanks
Most GPs in the UK don't really understand much at all about desiccated thyroid.
Obviously I'm not medically qualified, but I would personally have dropped the levothyroxine dose down, whilst introducing a low dose of Armour .
Without seeing any previous blood results, I can't say more than that though.
Hello Sizzles
Irrespective of what dose of T4 - Levothyroxine you were taking it's suggested that one needs to introduce NDT low and slowly build up your dose in 1/4 grain increments weekly or fortnightly.
The T4 will take around 6-8 weeks to fully leave your body and in that period as this form of thyroid hormone replacement diminishes your levels of NDT are built up.
Did you take any bench mark readings of your T3 and T4 levels before starting so you can monitor and track on your T3 levels?
It's recommended that if and when you reach 2 grains you then stay on this dose for 6-8 weeks, letting in bed in and then run a blood test and review your T3 progress and symptom relief.
No thyroid hormone replacement works well until your core strength vitamins and minerals are up and maintained at optimal levels.
Are you monitoring on twice daily blood pressure, pulse and temperature as these are useful physical symptoms that can be reassuring when building up to optimum levels.
What were your most recent thyroid and vitamin results BEFORE changing to Armour
Did you always get same brand levothyroxine at each prescription
That was huge reduction in levothyroxine over years
What vitamin supplements are you currently taking
Do you have autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s usually diagnosed by high thyroid antibodies
Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after being on constant unchanging dose and brand thyroid hormones
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
On NDT ….day before test last 1/3rd of daily dose approx 8-12 hours before test
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins
List of private testing options and money off codes
thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...
Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins
medichecks.com/products/adv...
Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins
bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...
If you can get GP to test vitamins then cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3
£29 (via NHS private service ) and 10% off down to £26.10 if go on thyroid uk for code
thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...
NHS easy postal kit vitamin D test £29 via
Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning.
Watch out for postal strikes, probably want to pay for guaranteed 24 hours delivery
thanks so much SlowDragon! Very helpful. My results before I started on armour. I did have hashimotos but no apparently no anti bodies.
I was always on levothyroxine but have never felt well on them and haven’t really been monitored for quite a few years.
Thyroid Stim. Hormone INSUFFICIENT 0.270 - 4.2 mIU/L
Free T3 3.6 3.1 - 6.8 pmol/L
Free Thyroxine (FT4) 21.9 12 - 22 pmol/L
Thyroglobulin Antibodies 16.0 0 - 115 kIU/L Method: Roche Cobas Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 15.9 0 - 34 kIU/L
no vitamin results?
Clearly terrible conversion rate of Ft4 to FT3
That suggests low vitamin levels
For Levothyroxine, T3 or NDT to work well we need OPTIMAL vitamin levels
if you had hashimoto’s in past you still have it, even if antibodies are now within range
Frequently with hashimoto’s strictly gluten free diet and dairy free diet give noticeable benefit, sometimes significantly or absolutely essential
There were the other ones -
I didn’t know about the dairy free or gluten free. I was doing intermittent fasting for the past 2 years - I thought it might improve energy - and then told recently by the GP it was the worst thing to do !
C Reactive Protein (high sensitivity) 0.54 <3.0 mg/L 25 OH Vitamin D 89 50 - 200 nmol/L
LIVER FUNCTION TESTS Albumin 46 35 - 50 g/L
HAEMATINICS
Ferritin 40 30 - 150 ug/L
Vit B12 H 622 145 - 569 pmol/L
Thank you very much
what vitamin supplements do you currently take
No folate result?
Ferritin is too low
are you vegetarian or vegan
Look at increasing iron rich foods in diet
Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption
List of iron rich foods
Links about iron and ferritin
An article that explains why Low ferritin and low thyroid levels are often linked
preventmiscarriage.com/iron...
irondisorders.org/too-littl...
davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...
Great in-depth article on low ferritin
oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...
drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...
This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.
Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...
Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first and retest 3-4 times a year if self supplementing. It’s possible to have low ferritin but high iron
Ask GP for full iron panel test
Or
Medichecks iron panel test
medichecks.com/products/iro...
Iron and thyroid link
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Excellent article on iron and thyroid
cambridge.org/core/journals...
Posts discussing why important to do full iron panel test
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Chicken livers if iron is good, but ferritin low
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Heme iron v non heme
hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...
Ferritin over 100 to alleviate symptoms
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
yes I am vegetarian! More dark choc then !! 😊
so it’s imperative you get full iron panel test done
Likely to need iron supplements
Retest full iron panel every 3-4 months if on iron supplements
Are you currently taking B12 supplement?
Actually B12 was high but I haven’t had bloods since starting armour. Have a good day !
Are you taking any B12 supplements?
if not high B12 can be deceptive
Paradoxical B12 deficiency with Hashimoto’s
b12oils.com/paradoxical.htm...
you need B12 and folate tested together
academic.oup.com/nutritionr...
The present review of the literature regarding B12 status among vegetarians shows that the rates of B12 depletion and deficiency are high. It is, therefore, recommended that health professionals alert vegetarians about the risk of developing subnormal B12 status. Vegetarians should also take preventive measures to ensure adequate intake of this vitamin, including the regular intake of B12 supplements to prevent deficiency. Considering the low absorption rate of B12 from supplements, a dose of at least 250 μg should be ingested for the best results.3
Food intolerance and Hashimoto’s
Hashimoto's affects the gut and leads to low stomach acid and then low vitamin levels
Low vitamin levels affect Thyroid hormone working
Poor gut function can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten. Dairy is second most common.
According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps, sometimes significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)
Changing to a strictly gluten free diet may help reduce symptoms, help gut heal and slowly lower TPO antibodies
While still eating high gluten diet ask GP for coeliac blood test first or buy test online for under £20, just to rule it out first
Assuming test is negative you can immediately go on strictly gluten free diet
(If test is positive you will need to remain on high gluten diet until endoscopy, maximum 6 weeks wait officially)
Trying gluten free diet for 3-6 months. If no noticeable improvement then reintroduce gluten and see if symptoms get worse
chriskresser.com/the-gluten...
amymyersmd.com/2018/04/3-re...
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
drknews.com/changing-your-d...
Non Coeliac Gluten sensitivity (NCGS) and autoimmune disease
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/296...
The predominance of Hashimoto thyroiditis represents an interesting finding, since it has been indirectly confirmed by an Italian study, showing that autoimmune thyroid disease is a risk factor for the evolution towards NCGS in a group of patients with minimal duodenal inflammation. On these bases, an autoimmune stigma in NCGS is strongly supported
nuclmed.gr/wp/wp-content/up...
In summary, whereas it is not yet clear whether a gluten free diet can prevent autoimmune diseases, it is worth mentioning that HT patients with or without CD benefit from a diet low in gluten as far as the progression and the potential disease complications are concerned
restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...
Despite the fact that 5-10% of patients have Celiac disease, in my experience and in the experience of many other physicians, at least 80% + of patients with Hashimoto's who go gluten-free notice a reduction in their symptoms almost immediately.
It’s always worth trying strictly gluten free diet
And eventually trying dairy free too
Only make one change at a time or you can’t tell what’s helping
thanks very much for all the information and advice .
I made a post about this exact thing, armour giving me a dry throat. It passed eventually but I always take it with a big pint of water as apparently ndt is very drying. I was very worried that it was an autoimmune reaction sparked by the NDT but actually it passed.
I also note you mention you are a vegetarian so just wanted to make sure you’re aware that NDT is an animal product, it’s made from pig thyroid.
thanks so much for replying relentlesssearch. When the consultant suggested armour was really worth trying I didn’t know it came from pigs and as a vegetarian I didn’t feel good about it but I have struggled with levo for so many years . I am willing to give it a try. Do you still take it ? Best wishes
yes I still take it, and it’s helping where levo/lio didn’t but it’s early days for me. I am very sensitive and have been hypo for over 20 years so I have much damage to undo. I do find it superior to levo and think it’s worth taking, but I am not a veggie, but glad you are aware it is pigs - I asked my endo and it is a byproduct, not raised purely for their thyroids if that helps 
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