Are these results "subclinical"?: My latest two... - Thyroid UK

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Are these results "subclinical"?

Granolalovers2 profile image
17 Replies

My latest two blood tests are below.

First blood test:

TSH: 4.16 (range 0.27 - 4.2)

T4: 11.4 (range 11.9 - 21.6) BELOW

Second blood test:

TSH: 4.49 (range 0.35 - 4.94)

T4: 12.7 (range 9.0 - 19.1)

T3: 4.6 (range 2.4 - 6.0)

Because my TSH is not above 5 (although 0.04 away from top threshold in first test) and my T4 was lower than range in the rust test - do you think that warrants medication.

I'm 40, female, exhausted and sudden weight gain.

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Granolalovers2
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17 Replies
Granolalovers2 profile image
Granolalovers2

I'm not on levothyroxine yet

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

welcome to the forum

Were both tests done early morning, ideally before 9am

Just testing thyroid….doesn’t give whole picture

You need to test thyroid antibodies and vitamin levels

should be retested 6-8 weeks again

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested

Also both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once to see if your hypothyroidism is autoimmune

Very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 at least once year minimum

Low vitamin levels are extremely common when hypothyroid, especially with autoimmune thyroid disease

About 90% of primary hypothyroidism is autoimmune thyroid disease, usually diagnosed by high TPO and/or high TG thyroid antibodies

Autoimmune thyroid disease with goitre is Hashimoto’s

Autoimmune thyroid disease without goitre is Ord’s thyroiditis.

Both are autoimmune and generally called Hashimoto’s.

Significant minority of Hashimoto’s patients only have high TG antibodies (thyroglobulin)

20% of autoimmune thyroid patients never have high thyroid antibodies and ultrasound scan of thyroid can get diagnosis

In U.K. medics hardly ever refer to autoimmune thyroid disease as Hashimoto’s (or Ord’s thyroiditis)

Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins

Post all about what time of day to test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Testing options and includes money off codes for private testing

thyroiduk.org/testing/

Medichecks Thyroid plus BOTH TPO and TG antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes BOTH TPO and TG antibodies, cortisol and vitamins

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning.

Link about thyroid blood tests

thyroiduk.org/testing/thyro...

Link about Hashimoto’s

thyroiduk.org/hypothyroid-b...

Symptoms of hypothyroidism

thyroiduk.org/signs-and-sym...

Tips on how to do DIY finger prick test

support.medichecks.com/hc/e...

Medichecks and BH also offer private blood draw at clinic near you, or private nurse to your own home…..for an extra fee

Could be peri menopause too

But see what thyroid retest and vitamin levels show first

Granolalovers2 profile image
Granolalovers2 in reply to SlowDragon

Hi, thanks. Both tests were fasting. First one 10:30 (that's the earliest I could get), second one 8:30.

Vitamin D was 60 (range > 50)

If I have another retest, would the status of vitamins change whether I should take thyroxine?

Is this subclinical if T4 is below range on the first but TSH is not above 5?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Granolalovers2

having low thyroid levels will frequently cause low stomach acid and poor nutrient absorption and low vitamin levels as direct result

Low vitamin levels tend to lower TSH

Improving vitamin levels to optimal can improve symptoms too

Graph showing median TSH in healthy population is 1-1.5

web.archive.org/web/2004060...

Vitamin D is too low

How much vitamin D are you currently taking

GP will often only prescribe to bring vitamin D levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol or even 80nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

But, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly when supplementing

Can test via NHS private testing service

vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function.

There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7.

One spray = 1000iu

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with thyroid issues we frequently need higher dose than average

Vitamin D and thyroid disease

grassrootshealth.net/blog/t...

Vitamin D may prevent Autoimmune disease

newscientist.com/article/23...

Web links about taking important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Recipe ideas

bbc.co.uk/food/articles/mag...

Interesting article by Dr Malcolm Kendrick on magnesium

drmalcolmkendrick.org/categ...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

Granolalovers2 profile image
Granolalovers2 in reply to SlowDragon

Sorry I replied on a separate thread below. Getting used to this website!

Granolalovers2 profile image
Granolalovers2

Thanks. I do have better you but I'm tending to use the vitabiotics 1000 iu.

So I'm seeing the endocrinologist in an hour. If you were me, would you be asking for thyroxine - if he's willing to prescribe?

Or would you be sorting vitamin / ferritin etc levels out first which might fix the thyroid on its own?

I have a strong family history of hypothyroidism but no one has tested for the antibodies apart from me which were fine.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Granolalovers2

Have you tested BOTH TPO and TG antibodies

Have you had ultrasound scan of thyroid

How long have you been taking 1000iu vitamin D. Suggest you increase to 2000-3000iu daily

I would test B12, folate and full iron panel including ferritin next

Before considering starting Levothyroxine

Retest thyroid again 2-3 months after getting all vitamins optimal

And get tested for peri menopause

Granolalovers2 profile image
Granolalovers2 in reply to SlowDragon

Thank you for your reply.

No only tested for TPO (GP didn't offer TG).

No not had an ultrasound.

Thanks so much, I'll request all of this for a blood test.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Granolalovers2

NHS can’t/won’t test TG antibodies unless TPO antibodies are high

You will need to test via Medichecks or Blue Horizon

Significant minority of Hashimoto’s patients only have high TG antibodies (thyroglobulin)

20% of Hashimoto's patients never have raised antibodies

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Paul Robson on atrophied thyroid - especially if no TPO antibodies

paulrobinsonthyroid.com/cou...

Gluten intolerance is often a hidden issue too.

Request coeliac blood test BEFORE considering trial on strictly gluten free diet

Granolalovers2 profile image
Granolalovers2 in reply to SlowDragon

Thank you, I've had thorough gluten testing as my son has raised antibodies for it.

Waiting to see consultant!

If I'm offered thyroxine - would you take it? I feel absolutely exhausted all the time.

Either way I'm thinking I'm going to remove gluten and once I've had a proper blood test, strictly increase iron and vitamins.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Granolalovers2

Personally I would want to test and get vitamin levels optimal first

If you have low iron/ferritin or B vitamins this can cause fatigue

And important to have optimal vitamin levels to process thyroid hormones.

klr31 profile image
klr31 in reply to Granolalovers2

Yes, definitely.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Have you not had any B12, folate or ferritin tests recently

Looking to maintain

Serum B12 over 500

Active B12 at least over 70

Folate towards top of range

Ferritin at least over 70

klr31 profile image
klr31

Yes, you should have been started on thyroxine.

Karen

Popscicle profile image
Popscicle

yes! Do you have symptoms? I think at least you should be given a “trial of treatment” for 3m minimum. If you are in a position of possibly having to fight for treatment I suggest you look at the symptoms list of hypothyroidism on the thyroid uk website, write down a list of all symptoms you have and then see your gp armed with your list which is your ‘reason’ for wanting a trial of treatment rather than just repeat bloods in 6-8 weeks!

Granolalovers2 profile image
Granolalovers2 in reply to Popscicle

Yes I've been put on 25mcg Teva for 2 weeks and then 50mcg for 3 months.

Bit nervous being on the Teva brand but I'm lactose intolerant.

I do have many symptoms and a strong family history.

Popscicle profile image
Popscicle in reply to Granolalovers2

Well I’m glad you’ve been started on treatment. Some people don’t do well on Teva but others do very well. At least you know there could be problems so you’ll be alert within days if you do Hv problems. Ie you know to look out for problems rather than blaming any new symptoms on the actual thyroid!

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