At my recent endo appointment, the Professor looked at me over the top of his spectacles and said, ‘if the blood test comes back right, I’m happy for you to stop taking the trial of T4 ‘(which I was coerced into taking) “and go onto 3 x day T3, 10mcg. You do realise it’s as clear as barn doors staring you in the face that this will shorten your life? But I understand from your file that you prefer to live your life now?”
Naturally I do want to live my life now thank you , and not go back to being the zombie who was dragging themself around on T4 only, so the answer was yes. Because it has been a battle these last 20 years to have it accepted that I do not convert T4, and an even bigger battle to remain on T3.
I totally forgot to ask him how much life I am destined to lose, and how he knew this.
Maybe someone here could kindly point me to the source? Maybe I can do some advance planning.
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Hiphypo
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30 mcg LT3 equates to 90 mcg LT4 so is a moderate dose.As regards the relative safety of T3 and T4 the evidence is that T3 is safer than T4. See my post on T4 and cardiac risk healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... . Also see the link it has to my post on T4 and cancer mortality.
It was a reasonable guess that T3 would carry more risk that T4 because T3 has a shorter half-life and taking T3 bypasses any protection deiodinase may give. However, T4 acting on a cell membrane receptor at upper normal levels is associated with increased mortality.
I've tried to present the evidence in a balanced way. I suggest you ask him for the evidence. It would be helpful if you could send me a private message with the name of the Professor.
"You do realise that a healthy thyroid makes T3 naturally every day, and that T4 converts naturally into T3, and that every single cell in your body needs T3 to function correctly? If it were the case that T3 shortens lives, no-one would live very long because we're all full of it. Naturally."
Were do they get these weird beliefs from? And how do they get away with it? Because either patients are more ignorant than them, or just don't dare contradict them. But my goodness, are they riding for a fall, because one day, someone is going to hit them over the head with exactly how ignorant they are!
I do not consider myself fully educated in thyroid matters yet but this was exactly what I was thinking and scratchingy head about after reading the original post.
Apart from this endo.... I'd suggest that ultimately it's excess cellular T3 that could be the issue/ danger here....not specifically serum T3.
T3 only becomes active once it reaches the nuclei of the cells and attaches to various T3 receptors.
However for most people serum T3 usually equates to cellular T3 level....though not always, and for a few people like me a form of hormone resistance exists which requires a supraphysiological dose of T3
I've always understood that so long as FT3 is kept within the reference range overmedication is unlikely and there is no added danger.
What do your FT3 labs look like?
There are no tests for cellular T3 , except post mortem, so signs and symptoms are how we monitor cellular T3. Though basal metabolic rate might be used.
I need high dose T3-only to function, my GP initially thought I was killing myself...I think it's keeping me alive, not killing me!! They have stopped panicking and leave me to self medicate now!
Liothyronine use in a 17 year observational population-based study - the tears study
Conclusion: For patients taking long-term liothyronine we did not identify any additional risk of atrial fibrillation, cardiovascular disease or fractures.
Dr John Lowe a T3 expert took around 150mcg T3 daily for many years until he died as a result of an accident...he had been in good health
Are you about to take 60mcg daily....or did I misunderstand you?
Monitor for signs of overmedication.....fast resting heart rate, hand tremors, anxiety etc
I now take 100mcg in a single dose at bedtime....and I'm aged almost 79!
I think your endo needs to clarify what he means and verify what looks like a power fuelled pompous threat....
These medics/endos are flawed human beings like the rest of us, not demi gods! Look no further than the infected blood scandal hitting the headlines.
Used correctly, and treated with respect, T3 is no more dangerous than any other medication....a medic agreed with this recently when I was having a bit of a rant!!
I hope something in this rant helps.....good luck!
For the most part I think your body lets you know if something is good for you or not. There are a lot of rumours about T3 held in the medical profession. I was told by a GP recently that it can cause heart failure but that is not on the patient information leaflet and not consistant with the last time I looked at the yellow card reporting where there was hardly any reported heart related incidents ( this was about 5 years ago or so). Quite a few heart related incidents for levo though. Make sure you outlive Enid!
I think 🤔 you know your body trust your gut. There are too many know it all dr's that don't understand the thyroid. I'm a poor converter from T4 to T3 and without my NDT I'm a mess... Personal experiences are better markers than someone else's opinion. My old Dr once told me .. It's called medical practice because it's not perfect ...From now on...all NHS endos shall be known as Enid..... 😂
While Enid is great for providing some needed light-hearted amusement, you might not know...
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After reading your post and the replys, it crossed my mind that maybe Enid was thinking more about the cost of T3 and trying scare tactics🤔as T3 costs the NHS more. How professional to say it will shorten your life, rather than back himself up and explain evidence? Shame auto correct didn't change Endo to Ejit!
Listen to your own body, you live in it, not him xx
It's quite reasonable to presume that taking T3 might have adverse consequences. Trials that give a single T3 dose show a short term peak in heart rate. This could lead to the assumption that taking T3 daily would lead to daily heart rate peaks that are dangerous.
Fortunately, this doesn't happen with regular daily dosing of T3. Of course dosage matters, if you take too much it will damage the heart and possibly lead to stroke.
This comes down to pharmacokinetics (how the drug is absorbed, stored in the blood and eliminated) and pharmacodynamics (the effect of the drug on the body). Doctors tend to look at pharmacokinetics which is wrong. Logically we would expect TSH to respond comparatively rapidly to changes in hormone levels, at least as quickly as most tissues including the heart. This study academic.oup.com/jcem/artic... used thrice daily dosing to show that there was no difference between the effects of LT3 and LT4 on TSH.
This study pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/355... found combination therapy was associated with heart failure and stroke risk but the study had no correction for dose. It may be that the doctors who were using combination therapy were dealing with more difficult patients or had a more cavalier approch to prescribing.
My view is that combination therapy is safer and should be the default. We should acknowledge the risks of higher hormone levels although often they cannot be avoided and note there are risks of not adequately treating - some patients are between a rock and a hard place.
I would contact Enid, through his secretary, say you've been considering what he said about T3 and would like to know more. Obviously this is important. Please can he give you any papers/links to papers that refer to T3 shortening your life.
Keep it polite, but still putting him on the spot. If he's professional, he should reply to you. If he doesn't, that won't put him in a good light for your next appointment.
As so many of us, you want a decent life now. I've now had 8 very good years on T3; my previous 2 years were a waste and I didn't want to be here any more.
I wouldn’t even bother with asking him to back up his asinine statement. Just take your T3 and get better! Might need more than than small dose later but when he sees you doing well on it, proof’s in the pudding and if you need to confront him then, at that time, you still can. I like to save my evidentiary fighting with them for when I really need it. If they give me the right meds I trot off like a good little docile patient. Hah.
I would (politely) challenge him on it, as I said above. They have to be called out/put on the spot so they at east try to back up what they spout, and hopefully not say it to others.
My GP said I would not survive a year without Levothyroxine. Here I am, more than two years later, still living - with MDS/MPN but no clear evidence of a thyroid problem, based on a very low TSH.
And to think that for 60 years I believed everything that came out of a doctor's mouth....until it became pretty unbelievable. And also to think that there are so, so many people who still do that same thing (and believe that we are the crazy ones to double check before we fully believe anything). I find that very scary. Thank goodness for this community!
Couldn't agree more! This forum saved me, possibly literally. I tell lots of people nowadays to question their dr, and research themselves so they're not following blindly.
Does your Endo understand what T3 is. For starters normal thyroid has T4 and T3 and more. In my personal thyroid journey having had TT and dosed with T4 sole. I experienced palpitations for 23 plus years. After much begging and pleading I was finally allowed to have T3 which was a Tremendous game changer for me. It calmed my heart. I was not converting my T4 to T3 which my heart was missing. The heart has a large receptor sight for T3 as do other muscles. I don't know where your Endo gets his information . I'm sure that over dosing with T3 is damaging just like any other medication that is over medicated.T3 is a life saver for many of us.
I hope that many Dr's will incorporate T3 as a very vital part of our thyroid hormone well being.
an extraordinary statement from Enid, clearly a scare tactic. But really unpleasant to hear. My own experience of finding t3 and taking it has been so very beneficial and I don’t think I’d be able to work, socialise and fully live the way I do without it. Yes, who wants to go back to living like a zombie. Good luck to you, seize the day - and every other day of your long life!
it's probably the case that your professor is mistaken and genuinely belives that T3 in normal doses is harmful but you should be aware that some endocrinologists lie to their patients in order to keep in with their bosses. This is the case for me, I'm in the NW London area under Imperial Healthcare. The professor there lies to his patients and trainees and I'm currently taking this up with the GMC. So, it's probably a case of mistaken beliefs but in a minority of cases you can't rule out simple dishonesty, those that suck up to their bosses get promotion.
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Finally T3 prescribed by my Endo
I very rarely come on here now, my life has changed so much from this time last year...Maybe this will inspire a few of you!!
When replacing with T3 will T3 blood test results be higher than 'normal' range?
Taken matters into my hands - T3
