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Recent results

Macp17 profile image
26 Replies

Hello

Just had Monitor my Health results;

FT3 4.5 (range 3.1-6.8)

FT4 18.3 (12-22)

TSH 1.59 (0.27-4.2)

Am taking 75mg Levothyroxine 5 days and 50mg 2days (spread out in week). Feel ok but still very tired and dry skin. Was on 75mg but after 8 week test had gone out of NHS range so GP suggested alternate days dosage. Just wondering if TSH is creeping up (know from this site recommendation is around 1) if I should go back to 75mg daily? Next blood test NHS due Sept so could do monitor my health test few weeks before for results?

I know my FT4 creeping up too but not sure of significance of that?

Many thanks

Fiona

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Macp17
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TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador

Free T4 (fT4) 18.3 pmol/L (12 - 22) 63.0%

Free T3 (fT3) 4.5 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 37.8%

T4:T3 Ratio 4.067 

Yes, I'd go back to 75mcg per day... I'm assuming these are taken 24 hours after last dose

Have you optimised you folate, B12, Vit D and ferritin?

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toTiggerMe

Yes, 24 hours after last dose. 😊 NHS wouldn’t test vitamins again after loading dose but am taking multi vit daily.

I know with hashis it is recommended to try dairy/gluten free but tried that years ago for eczema and saw no difference (and found it very hard!)

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toMacp17

Last time I asked for my annual test they said "they were in range last time so we don't test" 🙄

Multivits tend to be a waste of money as they combine things that block each other like iron and don't have enough of anything to make a difference, you'd be better off with a good B complex, Vit D & K2, magnesium and selenium helps conversion

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toTiggerMe

👍

greygoose profile image
greygoose

Was on 75mg but after 8 week test had gone out of NHS range so GP suggested alternate days dosage.

What was out of range? TSH? Over or under? Your GP should not be dosing by the TSH! Once on thyroid hormone replacement it is unreliable.

The most important number is the FT3, and yours is low. And your FT4 is going up because you are converting less and less to T3. Do you know what your FT4 and FT3 were on 75 mcg daily?

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply togreygoose

Hi, on 75mg daily my TSH was 0.11 (range 0.35-4.94) tested by NHS 8 weeks after increase from 50mg daily. As I was out of range, got text from GP asking me to alternate 50/75mg. Presumably as I was out of range they also tested my FT4 which the don’t normally do; this was 16.3 (range 9-19).

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply toMacp17

this was 16.3 (range 9-19).

Which was well within range, so they should not have reduced your dose. Never, ever agree to reduce your dose based solely on the TSH. It's not even a thyroid hormone.

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply togreygoose

Thank you

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply toMacp17

You're welcome. :)

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Stop multivitamins a week before test as contains biotin

Multivitamins never recommended on here anyway

At best a waste of money, but often exacerbate issues. Most contain iodine not recommended for anyone on levothyroxine

You’re currently on inadequate dose Levo

Which brand of levothyroxine are you taking

Do you always get same brand

Increase back to 75mcg daily

Retest 8 weeks later

Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

meanwhile test vitamin D, folate, ferritin B12, privately if necessary

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toSlowDragon

have been in Wockhardt but pharmacy couldn’t get it last time so given mercury pharma. However, back on Wockhardt now. I did say I was happy with either (not Teva though, dreadful stomach issues!) but would like the same brand each time. Was told they have whatever they get sent in stock and no way to request same brand (although GP has specified no Teva)

Macp17 profile image
Macp17

I have been in Wockhardt but pharmacy couldn’t get it last time so given mercury pharma. However, back on Wockhardt now. I did say I was happy with either (not Teva though, dreadful stomach issues!) but would like the same brand each time. Was told they have whatever they get sent in stock and no way to request same brand (although GP has specified no Teva)

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toMacp17

I had stopped multi vits week before test and also take omega 3,6 & 9 which I also stopped althyneither contain Biotin. Which iron and B12 are recommended; only asking as my iron levels have always been good (despite having low ferritin a year ago which has now been treated and considered adequate). I also donate blood every 4 months and they test iron before donation and that always been fine too. Thanks

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toMacp17

I'll tag SlowDragon in as you are replying to yourself with these last two responses

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toTiggerMe

Oops, thank you! 😂

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toMacp17

One of them might have been for greygoose you could edit them if you'd rather re-aim them 😏

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toMacp17

Which iron and B12 are recommended; only asking as my iron levels have always been good (despite having low ferritin a year ago which has now been treated and considered adequate).

Test first before starting any supplements

Come back with new post once you get results

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toSlowDragon

I’m afraid I can’t get these tests done from GP and sadly can’t afford to keep testing privately, especially as having just done my thyroid one. Just knowing a good basic iron and B12 supplement would be helpful as I have been taking a multivitamin but understand they may not be ideal. Although it’s very bad that they sell them if they know the vitamins counteract each other; haven’t heard that anywhere else, you’d think that should be more widely publicised. 😠

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toMacp17

Reread previous posts

Eg good info from humanbean on this one

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Your previous posts show you have autoimmune thyroid disease (hashimoto’s)

You get all the iodine you need in levothyroxine and not a good idea to take extra (in multivitamin)

B12 and folate

Are you taking any other supplements apart from multivitamin

Post a year ago

My full blood test in July showed

Vit B12 at 365 (range 180-640),

Ferritin at 24 (range 15-200),

Serum folate at 12.3 (range 3-20).

Don’t think Vit D was tested.

Test vitamin D here

NHS easy postal kit vitamin D test £31 via

vitamindtest.org.uk

So these results show ferritin deficient

Presumably GP prescribed iron supplements

What was ferritin when retested

B12 and folate too low

You needed a separate B12 supplement initially and after week add daily vitamin B complex

Low B12 symptoms

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

methyl-life.com/blogs/defic...

With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement

A week later add a separate vitamin B Complex 

Then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), you may be able to reduce then stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.

If Vegetarian or vegan likely to need ongoing separate B12 few times a week

Highly effective B12 drops

natureprovides.com/products...

Or

B12 sublingual lozenges

uk.iherb.com/pr/jarrow-form...

cytoplan.co.uk/shop-by-prod...

B12 range in U.K. is too wide

Interesting that in this research B12 below 400 is considered inadequate

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Low folate

supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid)

This can help keep all B vitamins in balance and will help improve B12 levels too

Difference between folate and folic acid

healthline.com/nutrition/fo...

Many Hashimoto’s patients have MTHFR gene variation and can have trouble processing folic acid.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

Thorne Basic B recommended vitamin B complex that contains folate, but they are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule)

Thorne currently difficult to find at reasonable price, should be around £20-£25. iherb.com often have in stock. Or try ebay

Igennus B complex popular option too. Nice small tablets. Most people only find they need one per day. But a few people find it’s not high enough dose

Post discussing different B complex

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate folate supplement (eg Jarrow methyl folate 400mcg) and continue separate B12 until over 500

Post discussing how biotin can affect test results

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toSlowDragon

Thank you; if only NHS would test vitamins yearly along with TSH; couldn’t cos that much extra surely and may make a lot of people more aware!

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toMacp17

If you haven’t signed the petition…..for better thyroid care ….there’s 4 days left to sign

petition.parliament.uk/peti...

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toSlowDragon

I have already done it weeks ago! 👍

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Links about autoimmune thyroid disease and low vitamin D

Yet still most Hashimoto's patients struggle to get NHS to test vitamin D

All Patients with autoimmune thyroid disease should have vitamin D tested annually

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/286...

Vitamin D deficiency is frequent in Hashimoto's thyroiditis and treatment of patients with this condition with Vitamin D may slow down the course of development of hypothyroidism and also decrease cardiovascular risks in these patients. Vitamin D measurement and replacement may be critical in these patients.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/273...

Vitamin D insufficiency was associated with AITD and HT, especially overt hypothyroidism. Low serum vitamin D levels were independently associated with high serum TSH levels.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/300...

The thyroid hormone status would play a role in the maintenance of vitamin D sufficiency, and its immunomodulatory role would influence the presence of autoimmune thyroid disease. The positive correlation between free T4 and vitamin D concentrations suggests that adequate levothyroxine replacement in HT would be an essential factor in maintaining vitamin D at sufficient levels.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Our results indicated that patients with hypothyroidism suffered from hypovitaminosis D with hypocalcaemia that is significantly associated with the degree and severity of the hypothyroidism. That encourages the advisability of vit D supplementation and recommends the screening for Vitamin D deficiency and serum calcium levels for all hypothyroid patients.

NHS Guidelines on dose vitamin D required

ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/use...

GP will often only prescribe to bring vitamin D levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol or even 80nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly when supplementing

Can test via NHS private testing service

vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function.

There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7.

One spray = 1000iu

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with thyroid issues we frequently need higher dose than average

Vitamin D and thyroid disease

grassrootshealth.net/blog/t...

Vitamin D may prevent Autoimmune disease

newscientist.com/article/23...

Web links about taking important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Interesting article by Dr Malcolm Kendrick on magnesium

drmalcolmkendrick.org/categ...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toSlowDragon

👍

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Same applies to low B12 - extremely common in hypothyroid patients

All patients who are hypothyroid should have B12 tested

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/186...

There is a high (approx 40%) prevalence of B12 deficiency in hypothyroid patients. Traditional symptoms are not a good guide to determining presence of B12 deficiency. Screening for vitamin B12 levels should be undertaken in all hypothyroid patients, irrespective of their thyroid antibody status. Replacement of B12 leads to improvement in symptoms, although a placebo effect cannot be excluded, as a number of patients without B12 deficiency also appeared to respond to B12, administration.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/169...

Patients with AITD have a high prevalence of B12 deficiency and particularly of pernicious anemia. The evaluation of B12 deficiency can be simplified by measuring fasting serum gastrin and, if elevated, referring the patient for gastroscopy.

Folate supplements can help lower homocysteine

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Levothyroxine can decrease serum homocysteine level partly; still its combination with folic acid empowers the effect. Combination therapy declines serum homocysteine level more successfully.

Low ferritin frequent in hypothyroidism

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Aiming for ferritin at least over 70

Push GP to retest at least annually

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

Serum ferritin level is the biochemical test, which most reliably correlates with relative total body iron stores. In all people, a serum ferritin level of less than 30 micrograms/L confirms the diagnosis of iron deficiency.

Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first and retest 3-4 times a year if self supplementing.

It’s possible to have low ferritin but high iron

Test early morning, only water to drink between waking and test. Avoid high iron rich dinner night before test

Stop iron supplement 5-7 days before test

Medichecks iron panel test

medichecks.com/products/iro...

Look at increasing iron rich foods in diet

Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption

List of iron rich foods

dailyiron.net

Links about iron and ferritin

irondisorders.org/too-littl...

davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...

Great in-depth article on low ferritin

oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...

drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...

This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Posts discussing Three Arrows as very effective supplement

Great replies from @FallingInReverse

re ferritin and Three arrows

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu......

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Iron patches

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...

Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Iron and thyroid link

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Posts discussing why important to do full iron panel test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Good iron but low ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Chicken livers if iron is good, but ferritin low

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Shellfish and Mussels are excellent source of iron

healthline.com/nutrition/he...

Iron deficiency without anaemia

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Ferritin over 100 to alleviate symptoms

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Great research article discussing similar…..ferritin over 100 often necessary

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Low Iron implicated in hypothyroidism

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Inflammation affecting ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Updated reference ranges for top of ferritin range depending upon age

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Thank you for your incredible patience while you have been awaiting the outcome of our ferritin reference range review. We conducted this with Inuvi lab, which has now changed the reference ranges to the following:

Females 18 ≤ age < 40. 30 to 180

Females 40 ≤ age < 50. 30 to 207

Females 50 ≤ age < 60. 30 to 264l

Females Age ≥ 60. 30 to 332

Males 18 ≤ age < 40 30 to 442

Males Age ≥ 40 30 to 518

The lower limits of 30 are by the NICE threshold of <30 for iron deficiency. Our review of Medichecks data has determined the upper limits. This retrospective study used a large dataset of blood test results from 25,425 healthy participants aged 18 to 97 over seven years. This is the most extensive study on ferritin reference ranges, and we hope to achieve journal publication so that these ranges can be applied more widely.

Macp17 profile image
Macp17 in reply toSlowDragon

Thank you for a very informative answer. Still don’t think GP will agree to annual vitamin testing which seems such a shame for those of us who really can’t afford to do it ourselves so regularly. Thank you again though, you really are such a knowledgeable and helpful group! X

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