Over range copper and zinc

[Noelnoel]

The only culprit I can think of is milk thistle. Any thoughts on over range copper and zinc?

About a 10 months ago, zinc was low-ish and copper slightly over so I supplemented zinc for a short while but stopped a couple of months ago. Then the week before last started with milk thistle for liver support

Also, not sure if there’s enough info there on sex hormones for any comments regarding HRT. I’ve been considering speaking to GP about it for some time but first wanted get thyroid levels optimal. I do however use a yam based progesterone oil which has helped with hot flushes and breast tenderness

I’ve been aware of the over range ferritin for some time and it’s due to supplementing as opposed to inflammation. And the sodium levels? Well, that might explain the swollen ankles …

[SlowDragon Administrator]

B12 is low and folate could be better

What vitamin supplements are you taking

Ferritin- are you post menopause. Higher ferritin common/normal after menopause

Swollen ankles…..are you dairy free….if not …might find this helps

[Noelnoel in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes, will restart the b complex after lunch

I take:

Occasional magnesium complex

Occasional Vit D/K2

Selenium

Was taking a B complex up until 3 months and currently on a break

The high ferritin is due to taking high doses of ionic liquid iron. The previous test had shown it had fallen to well within range again so I re-started the iron a month ago

The only dairy I have is homemade goat milk kefir and I’m loath to stop it as it really seems to help with bloating. What’s the link with swollen ankles? I recently started drinking the recommended salt and orange juice for adrenal support. Hmm, I wonder if that’s responsible? I use a lot of coarse grey salt daily but up until introducing the oj salt drink sodium levels have been well within range and and bp is good too

Care to comment on the zinc and copper?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Noelnoel]

If you’re cow dairy free that’s probably fine

sheep and goat milk has different enzymes/proteins

Usually copper is high and zinc low ….or vice versa

Retest again in 6 months?

[Noelnoel in reply to SlowDragon]

The fact that both are high is puzzling but thank you

And thank you for recommending that particular BH test. Will do it again at some point

[Blissful in reply to Noelnoel]

The high ferritin is due to taking high doses of ionic liquid iron. The previous test had shown it had fallen to well within range again so I re-started the iron a month ago

Do you mean ferritin had fallen (rather than serum iron)? Have you had the full iron panel?

There's a link between copper and iron via ceruloplasmin (a protein made by the liver to help copper circulate and carry it throughout your body - you have too much copper in your blood so something is not working - I suspect the high dose ionic iron could be the culprit.

I doubt milk thistle is the cause.

Why isn't there a reading for potassium (it goes hand in hand with sodium).

[Noelnoel in reply to Blissful]

Hi Blissful and thank you

Yes, ferritin came down. As I remember, iron panel was normal

For whatever reason the test didn’t include potassium and because I did it mainly for Cu and Zn, potassium didn’t occur to me

I’ll look into your comments about copper, iron and cerulopasmin (a protein I’ve never heard of), so thank you for mentioning it, it sounds an interesting theory that I’d like to know more about

Although I have no way of knowing for sure because the first and only Zn and Cu test I ever did Zn was slightly low and Cu just over range and now Zn is also over, the only explanation I can think of is having over-supplemented Zn and perhaps not giving it enough time to lower before testing. Or, because milk thistle is the only change to my routine in recent months and as it can/does contain both it’s conceivably responsible, though I’m not forgetting Cu was slighlty over before I started milk thistle

[Blissful in reply to Noelnoel]

I've never heard/seen that Milk Thistle contains copper and zinc ? As far as I know it thrives in very poor quality soil. Logic might say that over supplementing has caused you results?

Re ceruoplasmin, although I haven't listened to this myself, for sure it will explain it. I've just noticed it says he's written a book called “Cu-RE Your Fatigue

podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...

This might interest you:

drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/COPP...

[tattybogle]

Hi Noelnoel , please consider signing this petition and sharing if you can, Thanks Tattybogle : healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Noelnoel in reply to tattybogle]

I think I did this a couple of days ago

[tattybogle in reply to Noelnoel]

Thankyou x

[radd]

Noelnoel,

High copper won’t just reduce by supplementing zinc if the elevation wasn't caused by the zinc deficiency, eg an overload of dietary copper intake isn’t reduced. You will just end up with still high copper and higher levels of zinc. Copper can be found in meat, fish, nuts, etc.

Regarding milk thistle and copper there is thoughts in both camps. It is a member of the asteracea family, some which contain copper which can find its way into supplements without correct processing. Ironically milk thistle is known for its strong antioxidant, anti-inflammatory and antimicrobial properties and for scavenging free radicals including an excess of copper, etc 🤷‍♀️.

It's a case of it depends on what you read! If you think it could be the milk thistle either stop supplementing or change to a different brand.

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

Thank you radd

High copper won’t just reduce by supplementing zinc if the elevation wasn't caused by the zinc deficiency …

You will just end up with still high copper and higher levels of zinc

Makes sense

Ironically milk thistle is known for its strong antioxidant, anti-inflammatory and antimicrobial properties and for scavenging free radicals including an excess of copper, etc 🤷‍♀️

Yes, really ironic or perhaps we can assume that copper levels would have been even higher were it not for milk thistle’s scavenging abilities!

Not sure how I can know it’s composition (might contact the company) but I bought what I thought to be a quality brand; Erbology milk thistle. I’ve been taking the recommended dose of 7g daily and have almost finished it but have reduced the dose by half because I want to continue with it till it’s finished as it’s definitely reduced the liver “pain” I experience and I’m hoping liver enzymes too

[Hopeful129]

Can I ask which test this was - i would like to do a similar one - thanks

[Noelnoel in reply to Hopeful129]

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

[Hopeful129 in reply to Noelnoel]

Thanks so much. Very useful