Anybody care to comment on what copper and zinc markers could signify. Ferritin is double the upper range, probably due to over- supplementing but I’d like to address that in a separate post please
I did the zinc/copper test because I’ve wondered for a long time whether I had low zinc levels (since so many hypos do) mainly because before I knew better some years back I supplemented it and felt better. Having read on here that taking zinc without first knowing it’s level, could lower copper and vice versa, I stopped
So, my feeling I might be low (but within range) in zinc is correct. Would I benefit by trying to raise it and could/would this then take copper down to within range? Does anyone know what optimum zinc and copper levels look like
Thanks
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Noelnoel
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No plan for testosterone until I’ve done my cortisol/DHEA test again. It’s been sitting in a drawer for months! Stopped taking iron months ago because I over-did it and took my ferritin way over range
The brand was Metabolics ionic liquid iron which I mixed with Nutricraft acerola powder and took daily. The recommended dose (if I remember) was 10 drops/13mg but because I’d previously spent years trying to raise ferritin unsuccessfully I was rather gung-ho with it and and would draw an amount into the pipette a few times without counting the drops. Damned stupid and not to be recommended
Having said that, if I’d stuck to the recommended 13mg daily my ferritin would probably still be very low. Lesson learnt
I'll look it to the products you mentioned. Thank you. As for your iron and experimenting with different dosages, many of us have been there. In my late 20s, I doubled up on a 300 mg dose and in my next bloodwork the doc said stop because I was way over the limit.
Does anyone know what optimum zinc and copper levels look like
I wondered too, and posted about it a while back. I didn't find it clear-cut. I've since seen a couple of things about the connection between copper and cancer metabolism. All a bit complicated.
Thank you for the link wellness. My Cu and Zn knowledge is zero and as you say, there doesn’t seem to be anything conclusive to read. I hope someone will come along with a contribution I can use
I’m wondering if my very dark chocolate consumption is the culprit. I by no means eat a lot of it but it’s my go to thing a couple of evenings a week where I’ll eat perhaps a quarter of a Green and Black 85%
We always hear copper and zinc should be 'balanced', a term I find annoyingly vague and unhelpful. We might think it means comparable percentages in their respective ranges, but I was surprised to learn about a desirable ratio, even if not everyone agrees what that is.
Ratios and optimal levels aside, I think deficiencies and excesses should always be investigated. I wouldn't think a bit of G&B now and then could do it, but then I read about your cacao beverage habit. Interesting in terms of ferritin, as well.
Good of Batty1 to bring up Wilson's disease, even if serum copper levels can be low in spite of copper overload. Someone reading this thread on copper might benefit from knowing about the connection.
Have I missed something. Don’t recall reading about desirable ratios
Yes, the cacao “habit” will have to go for a while but as you can see it contains exactly double the amount of zinc. I wonder what I should conclude from that? That but for the drink I’d be zinc deficient? I wonder? And the iron connection; is it keeping my ferritin high? Hmm, a lot to ponder
Perhaps I’ll do a bit of experimenting with low dose zinc. The thought of more investigations is a pain and I route I don’t want to traverse just yet
In my initial reply above I linked to an old post that included links about copper, zinc and Cu/Zn ratio. Just a couple of things I'd found when I wanted more info. I'll add them below in case you're interested. On that thread another member replied about copper and neuropathy.
The penny has dropped! Mentioning chocolate has reminded me of my pure cacao drink! Have 3 cups/day and it’s comprises of many minerals and as I write this I’m wondering if that’s why my ferritin levels aren’t dropping …
I’d forgotten about the low testosterone marker! Omg, I really don’t have the stomach for addressing it but probably should. I find the thyroid battle so consuming
I did the saliva test and guess what, it’s still in the back of my freezer. Another thing I’d forgotten. If memory serves it includes DHEA too so that may give me some pointers into addressing testosterone, which I confess to knowing nothing about
Do you have any knowledge/experience of it Eeyore?
Get that spit in the post madam 🤣 yes cortisol and DHEA
I am fully HRT'd up, have been using testosterone for the last 2 years and wouldn't be without, it certainly helps with the drive to battle the thyroid issues 🤗
Really? Two years? Did your markers look anything like mine? Is it difficult to get prescribed? How has it helped? So many questions …
Yes, will put it in the post on Monday to avoid it being held up in the weekend post
To be fair to me I did the very same one a few years back but they messed it up and sent this one as a replacement. It remained in my cupboard all this time partly because of the palaver of filling six vials but also, I’d been taking adrenavive for sometime and wanted to stop it to see how my adrenals were coping without it. I stopped it five months prior to the test so the result should be reasonably reliable
Don't forget to fill in the form to go with it 🤗 it's a 24 hr return service so should be prioritised
Yes mine was low, first off I got it via a menopause clinic as all of my levels were low as the patch from the GP didn't pack enough punch but the GP took it over after initially being a bit resistant, I think most are up to speed now and it should be relatively easy to get hold of.... If you mention low libido it does the trick as this is the trigger word it seems 🙄 and you have a result to show them
It seems to give you back a little tenacity and drive mixed with a little joie de vivre 💃
Are you on estrogen and progesterone?
Looking back at your previous cortisol test (9 months ago) adrenavive obviously did the trick, how have you been since stopping? Your DHEA was in the toilet then so no surprise your testosterone was low
Edit... I've just realised the results you posted 9 months ago were actually from 2016 🙃 your cortisol was top end then but I'm not sure if that was when supplementing or not?
I completed that tome of a form on the day I spat in the vials, so at least that’s done
Libido? What’s that? Mine walked about 20 years ago. Sadly
I think all my sex hormones need to be revisited but don’t want to ask my GP. She’s actually quite good and compliant with my requests for TFTs and making sure she includes FT3 so I’m hesitant about asking too much. I feel confident though that once I’ve done the leg work and present her with a clinic diagnosis, she’d take it on. What was the clinic you attended? I read about Balance once and think I even had the app but didn’t follow it through. It’s been lurking in the back of my slow mind for some time to address hormonal issues but as previously mentioned, just getting on top of thyroid replacement has been a slog, so I’ve been avoiding it
I’ve used a yam-based progesterone oil for years but never oestrogen as I once, rightly or wrongly, came to the conclusion I had oestrogen dominance. Can’t even remember what I based that conclusion on!
I believe by 2016 I’d seen Dr P so will have been well underway with Adrenavive when I did the cortisol test but will check when I get home
I apply a progesterone oil daily but have never used oestrogen
I think you might be pleasantly surprised if you have a chat with your GP about HRT, I wouldn't put it off to long or they are less keen to start you on it, having a good balance of sex hormones actually helps your thyroid so well worth a dabble and so much easier after menopause... they might be the missing piece 🤞
Testosterone is remarkable stuff as it can be changed into estrogen if needed, the estrogen spray I use is made from yams.... I went to the Bristol Menopause Clinic and they were excellent.
Many moons ago my testosterone was below range .I was around 34. If you come across a natural version of testosterone pls do share on the forum.
Also, Noelnoel you're good at finding good quality supplements and non toxic brands so if you come across anything that's helpful for testosterone pls let me know.
Will consider talking to GP then but not yet. I need to understand what I’m asking her to do
I know what sex hormones are and have a vague idea of how they work. I’m very clear about what I ask for and why, in thyroid matters but wouldn’t know what labs I’d need, to look at sex hormones. As per TFTs do they test the bare minimum or is it comprehensive relevant testing. In the sex hormone arena is there the equivalent of a TSH test with which they can fob us off 😂
I read on here a lot that medics often blame menopause for thyroid symptoms so maybe she’d be happy to ply me with it
As you’ve rightly pointed out, my dhea in 2016 was quite low and as a result I purchased some from a practitioner in the US (Imaaan, no nastiest in it). It came as a hard waxy substance to use as a vaginal pessary (I think) and because I was scared of it and didn’t know what the hell I was doing, I used the tiniest amount on my skin and I seem to remember breaking out in spots. Memory’s a bit hazy there though but remember stopping it, sharpish
What’s the relationship between dhea and testosterone. Would be grateful if you could recommend a thorough but simple read
In answer to our earlier conversation, no, I wasn’t taking adrenavive at the time of the cortisol test
It’s been really informative talking to you today. Thank you
Other than testosterone they actually don't do blood tests for sex hormones... oh, the irony... they are very happy to be symptom based and trial and error 🙃
If you are foggy with aching joints, headaches, bad sleep, anxiety, itchy skin... urinary incontinence( almost forgot the joy of not having a twitchy bladder😂) or you can throw in a hot flush if you like (never really had them)
Total opposite from hoop jumping for thyroid hormones
The Balance site covers pretty much everything possible angle... I rather like a podcast as it seems to stick better 😅
You can get tested privately but even menopause clinics are symptom led...
I think post menopause is a silly title as you never get over the fact that your sex hormones have up and left you, you just continue to suffer the consequences of hormone deficiency for the rest of your life and the damaging effect that has on your heart and bones etc
Congratulations... you definitely qualify with that list! 🙃
All the things we blame on our thyroid is just as much due to lack of sex hormones which are even more depleted due to our dodgy thyroids and exhausted adrenals which are supposed to pick up the slack here too
It'll be interesting to see what your latest cortisol levels comeback as... when they make it to the post 😏 (post it note on freezer needed)
Yes, was hoping that would be the case but I really ought to have tested zinc too before starting it. Will test again at some point Over range iron was due to overdosing with iron for some weeks. It’s now back within range If my CRP markers are to be believed, I don’t have inflammation Yes, I have Hashi’s but as far as I’m aware, no other autoimmunities. Since being diagnosed and taking Metavive, antibodies have remained low. I have always felt well though (which I don’t take for granted as I know sir Hashi’s things can change dramatically), despite suffering with chronic insomnia which is thankfully resolving. However, I’m overweight and have a “dull” mind 😫
Well perhaps we’ll find that my testosterone is ok now then because my Cit D is high!
You’re so right about others’ experiences. Fascinating and informative
I haven’t written off dhea because back then ALL my hormones were out and maybe I should’ve addressed other areas first. Would be prepared try dhea again under the right supervision
Clueless about female hormones? You and me both!
Your point about yams for testosterone; my progesterone is made from yams so maybe there is a yam testosterone out there. Don’t give up the search
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Interesting in terms of ferritin, as well. 
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