Mitochondrial failing due to T3 problems

[Simonron]

My research online using Artificial Intelligence has firmly linked T3 failing to Mitochondrial failing. Thyroid T4

I note from my blood test results that I have low TSH, the bottom of the acceptable range of 0.45 mu/L At age 65, 0.5 is considered to be the lowest acceptable level.

I asked an AI system ... what are the symptoms of mitochondrial dysfunction caused by low TSH?

“PERPLEXITY” answered… Mitochondrial dysfunction caused by low TSH can lead to a lack of energy production in cells, which can affect how organs and organ systems function. Symptoms of mitochondrial dysfunction caused by low TSH may include:

• Fatigue

• Muscle weakness

• Exercise intolerance

• Brain fog

• Memory loss

• Depression - sometimes

• Anxiety

• Insomnia

• Digestive problems

• Increased risk of infection

• Strokes

• Pancreatic failure

• Parathyroid failure

• Diabetes

• Liver failure

• Cardiomyopathy

• Kidney disease - I had a stone

• Dementia

• Gastrointestinal conditions

• Drooping eyelid (ptosis)

I have many of these symptoms.

Interestingly, a tumour on the thyroid is more likely to be cancerous if TSH levels are high. That indicates my tumour is NOT cancerous as my TSH is as low as it can get.

Further, non cancerous lumps on the Thyroid can in fact cause low TSH.

I have also read that -

• Prolonged administration of pharmacological doses of dopamine can significantly reduce serum TSH levels and thyroid hormone secretion in normal and critically ill subjects.

I have been taking dopamine agonists for years.

I have also been taking Lansoprazole for decades.

Chasing through the potential cause and effects, I'm hoping to change my Lansoprazole to Famotidine

Confusing isn’t it ?

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Any PPI like Lansoprazole will significantly lower vitamin levels

You need to test thyroid and vitamin levels together

Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am (and if on levothyroxine last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test )

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options and money off codes

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning. 

Link about thyroid blood tests

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Link about Hashimoto’s

thyroiduk.org/hypothyroid-b...

Symptoms of hypothyroidism 

thyroiduk.org/wp-content/up...

Tips on how to do DIY finger prick test 

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Simonron in reply to SlowDragon]

Whats FT3?

[greygoose in reply to Simonron]

Free T3. T3 that isn't bound to a protein carrier, the only T3 the body can use.

[Simonron in reply to SlowDragon]

I've just this moment found - and taken an alternative to PPIs. Betaine Hydrochloride. If I can avoid the extreme expected heartburn I'll be delighted.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Simonron]

That would be very extreme to go straight from PPI to Betaine HCL

You might need to ween off PPI and look at your diet first

Posts by members mentioning low stomach acid

healthunlocked.com/search/p...

[Simonron in reply to SlowDragon]

I'm glad to say my ppi is at 16mg and, last night I just had slight acid and no pain. I took two Betaine, one with each meal. Looking good so far. I'll open my 32mg capsules and take a fraction, say approx 8mg at your suggestion though !

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Simonron]

see how you go …if it’s working as is ……keep going

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Web links re low stomach acid and reflux and hypothyroidism 

nutritionjersey.com/high-or...

stopthethyroidmadness.com/s...

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

 How to test your stomach acid levels 

healthygut.com/articles/3-t...

meraki-nutrition.co.uk/indi...

huffingtonpost.co.uk/laura-...

lispine.com/blog/10-telling...

Useful post and recipe book 

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Ppi 

Omeprazole will lower vitamin levels even further 

gov.uk/drug-safety-update/p...

webmd.com/heartburn-gerd/ne...

pharmacytimes.com/publicati...

PPI and increased risk T2 diabetes 

gut.bmj.com/content/early/2...

Iron Deficiency and PPI 

medpagetoday.com/resource-c...

futurity.org/anemia-proton-...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Clopidogrel and PPI

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Simonron in reply to SlowDragon]

Many thanks.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Simonron]

suggest you get FULL thyroid and vitamin testing via Medichecks or Blue horizon

Come back with new post once you get results

[Simonron in reply to SlowDragon]

I wonder if it shall be full enough.I have a 'full'NHS blood test tomorrow.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Simonron]

extremely unlikely

TSH …..plus Ft4 if you are lucky

[Simonron in reply to Simonron]

That is a lot to get through - I shall try !

[greygoose]

I'm sure a lot of that is true. Except that low TSH doesn't cause anything. TSH is just a chemical messanger from the pituitary to the thyroid, to tell it to make more or less hormone. And also to stimulate conversion of T4 to T3. It doesn't affect hearts or bones or anything else. The symptoms you quote are far more likely to be caused by low T3. What do you mean by 'T3 failing'?

Also, when on thyroid hormone replacement, the link between age and TSH is null and void. This is a ruse by doctors to prescribe less levo to older people. It's based on a study that found that older people with NO thyroid problems, have a slightly higher TSH on average than younger people. That does NOT mean that they can have it lower, or that they should have it higher. And, when on thyroid hormone replacement, and the TSH is below one, it's pretty much irrelevant. It's a very bad indicator of thyroid status. So, to say that 0.5 is the lowest acceptable level for TSH over 65 is an absolute nonsense.

It's the FT3 level that is most important - followed by the FT4 - because low FT3 will cause all sorts of symptoms and damage to the body. But, I'm afraid doctors don't know that. They are totally obsessed by the TSH without really knowing what it is or what it does. Don't allow them to browbeat you on that score!

As for Artificial Intelligence, it only knows what people tell it, the data that is fed into it. So, if the person doing that doesn't know what he's talking about, neither will AI.

[Mlinde]

Yes, I take Famitodene too, I won't go near any kind of 'prazole' and it works fine. Proton pump inhibitors ain't good for the liver.

[Simonron in reply to Mlinde]

Thanks - good news

[Batty1]

I don’t believe that a high TSH causes thyroid cancer because I had thyroid cancer and my TSH was normal and so were my Thyroglobulin levels and Im currently having recurrence and I still have normal thyroglobulin levels and low TSH due to T3.

[tattybogle in reply to Batty1]

it's known that high or higher in range TSH is 'associated with' thyroid cancer , it is not known that it 'causes' it .

The association is logical as a 'higher' TSH (even if it is still in range) means more thyroid gland stimulation ..... therefore it makes sense that eg. if any cancer was already there it might be stimulated to grow faster than it would if there was less thyroid stimualtion ( lower TSH).

This is why patients who've had thyroid cancer are treated with relatively larger doses of levo to supressed the TSH (therefore less thyroid stimulation occurs , and hopefully less stimulation for any remaining cancer to regrow)

But it is very common usual to have an 'in range' TSH at the time of diagnosis with thyroid cancer , most people are euthyroid (TSH / fT4 in range) when they are diagnosed.

This explains it a bit more : erc.bioscientifica.com/view... WOMEN IN CANCER THEMATIC REVIEW: Thyroid-stimulating hormone in thyroid cancer: does it matter? Hannah Nieto, Kristien Boelaert 2016

[Simonron]

From my reading, a high TSH is used to determine if there is cancer, not that it is the cause of it.

The actual levels that are considered to be 'normal' are not a good enough indicator for any individual, it's only a general indication. Personalise treatments of full body diagnoses supported by AI are coming online now and shall change everything - hope and expect.

[tattybogle in reply to Simonron]

i think you have to be a bit careful here .. a low/ lower TSH just makes it 'less likely' that a suspicious/ indeterminant nodule is cancerous, but it doesn't rule it out.

low/lower TSH doesn't mean your nodule is definitely not cancerous .. (and a higher TSH doesn't mean it definitely is)

[Angel_of_the_North]

Please remember that what is currently called "AI" is actually a Large Language Model. When you "ask it a question", you don't actually get the answer the the question, you get an articulate, plausible reply that is often factually incorrect. Think of it as showing you what the answer to the question might look like, not what it actually is. Accounting web did some research by trying out accountancy exam-type questions on it and found that it gave lovely sounding answers, many of which were wrong enough to get you fined by HMRC

[Simonron in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Absolutely right !That is what I would be telling my Computer Science students if I was still well enough to lecture. I have been working with, writing about, programming, building and generally shouting at computers since the Compukit UK101. I tell some of that story, not the shouting part, in a piece I have read on my podcast 'TortyTalks'. I called it - 'Computers, why bother?' I first wrote it some forty years ago. I teach, or would teach students today how to curate the information produced by any computer data retrieval processing system. The basic method I use for curation is, or should be, common sense; that is to cross check, ask the same question in different ways on different systems and pick the most often and most sensible answer from the moras of results. Then, I check the source of the information, enough said.

It takes time and effort. I have the time, but my Long Covid brain fog and exhaustion use up most of it. So, anything I actually produce as a published result is as deeply researched as is currently possible from an armchair. I mentioned 'AI' not to indicate the results are factual, but as a tongue in cheek warning. The quotes also indicate my doubts. I use them around the word 'Doctor' quite often too .

Re the 'Hallucinations' that GPT3 /4 for example can produce - I've been creating scripts for remote sensing systems recently. The answers I get when I point out the errors it makes would be comical if they were not so irritating. Very polite - ' I'm sorry for the confusion' is a frequent reply,,,