I would be grateful if folk could advise on starting new batches of NDT, particularly Thyroid S. I have been on it for quite a while now, and one would think that I have it all sorted, but I seem to get issues each time starting new batches for some reason. My last batch (TA22012) ended up working well for me once I'd started totally from scratch at quarterly intervals over a period of time due to experiencing some major side effects switching from another previous batch. I would have thought that starting from scratch each time shouldn't be necessary, however, I started a new batch (TA22057) at the dose I was previously at and felt and feel completely knackered, with heaviness in my limbs, swollen fingers and a driving achey feeling in my system, and intermittent raceyness. I also go through a short hot spell after an hour of taking it, but feel chilly at other times, which is very unusual for me. I am presuming I am probably under if lethargic with intermittent chillyness, but the driving acheyness and intermittent raceyness seems the opposite. I dropped the dose by 1/4, but no change. I have tweeked the dose first lower then slightly higher by quarter and I feel no different at all. Surely, I shouldn't have to stop completely for a few days and start from scratch each time starting a new batch? Testing would give some indication, but I know it's more on symptoms than test results with NDT.
Starting New Batches Of Thyroid S?: I would be... - Thyroid UK
Starting New Batches Of Thyroid S?
This is really such a trial isn't it! I haven't had any problems, but I'm still taking a 2021 batch TA21089. The batch currently for sale is 23T01001 with percentages of T4 104.9% and T3 98.3%. So far only one person I know has that one and is about to start it, and she'll let me know what she thinks of it. TA22012 had mixed comments, but mainly people liked it. I thought someone here had said that TA22057 was fine for them. Please will you let helvella, or me, know what you eventually think of TA22057? Also in case you haven't seen helevella's blog post, it summarises the various comments received about Thyroid-S here:
Thyroid S Batches
A summary of known and suspected potency of Thyroid S batches.
helvella.blogspot.com/p/thy...
Thanks I will. TA22012 worked out well for me in the end after I stopped everything and started from scratch again. It seems like my body can't cope with sudden changes, which is annoying and tiresome. To be honest, I just wished Levothyroxine worked well for me so there's no issues of changes and a heck of a lot cheaper. I am high maintenance for sure 🙄😄
In case you have any of the old batch left over, I now always start a new batch with at least a month's worth of the old one left. I then slowly substitute the new for the old, starting with 1/4 grain and increasing every 8 days or so. That way there's never a sudden change and if, when I get to say 3/4 new 1/4 old, I realise something is wrong, I still have enough of the old batch left to sort out a replacement for the new. I started doing that years ago when I was trying to switch from Armour to NatureThroid (didn't work for me), then from ERFA to Thyroid-S.
Thank you Framboise, that's a good way to do it, haven't thought of that. Will give it a go next time.
Hi, I started my new batch 23T01001 2 wks ago and I feel rough. So tired, not sleeping low mood etc and couldn’t work out why. Stumbled fortunately here and it seems I should need to up my dose. I do one twice a day so maybe 1 1/2 twice a day? Not sure how to proceed.
Do you know what your last batch number was? If the percentages of T3 and T4 were very different that could be why you don't feel so good now, but we're still trying to work out if that's why some people don't feel as good as they used to, or if there's another reason. So far you're the only person I've heard of who's taking the latest batch and who was already taking Thyroid-S. The only other report I've had about it was from someone who had switched from Nature-Throid and felt dreadful. It seems some people need to increase their dose and some need to decrease it, so, please could you let me know what the number was of the batch you've just finished?
MapleMoose, this sounds awful. I'm sorry you're experiencing such hypo symptoms from the erratic potency (and hyper from excipients?). Torture.
An endocrinologist who objected to NDT explained that the ratio of T3 to T4 in pork glands is higher than the "normal human ratio," however that was determined. My first thought is, all all human thyroid glands producing T3 and T4 at identical ratios? If a pork gland product contains more T3 than your body is expecting, then I can see how that would impact your cellular metabolism.
Clearly, what you're getting from Thyroid S is not what your body needs. Knowing what I know about Thai business practices, one would be within reason to wonder what someone has been tossing into the batch to keep the price where it is.
My most recent endocrinologist was promoting Tyrosint as the purest T4 therapy. It's also the most expensive. Unfortunately, he quite the practice before I could see if there was anything to what he was saying.
I hope you can find something that works for you.
Hi RockyPath. Love the name by the way, can relate there 😄. Thanks for that info, appreciate it. Unfortunately, I currently have no other choice than Thyroid S as I can't afford Armour or Erfa, nor pay privately for a prescription. Levothyroxine did not work well for me, nor did synthetic T3. I have even tried T3 only therapy and felt awful. I do not convert T3 too well so I do need it and Thyroid S has been the better of both evils. I just wish the price of Armour and Erfa would come down, but that's highly unlikely. I would steer well away from Thai Thyroid meds if I had the choice.
Hey there MapleMoose :
Since Thyroid S reformulation there appears some issues when changing over to a different bottle/batches and since we are talking about a natural product derived from pig thyroids I guess there is a tolerance level within which all production needs to fall.
I've recently started 2 new bottles and have a variance of 1/2 grain from my existing batch - in that with one I need to reduce by 1/4 grain while the other needs me to increase by at least a 1/4 grain ( still a work in progress ) - fortunately i had recently run my yearly full thyroid panel and knew my vitamins and minerals were well placed - so could rule out these co-factors.
I agree with you in that you shouldn't need to start from scratch and can only think this treatment option may not be the best option for you.
Having started from scratch do you eventually feel well and with fewer symptoms ?
Have you trialled a T3/T4 synthetic treatment option ?
Hi Pennieannie. Yes, I've trialled T4, T4 & T3 and T3 only.... All made me feel like death warmed up, achey and very bloated. Unfortunately, Thyroid S is my only option currently, as Armour and Erfa are not within my budget sadly.
Did Armour/Efra suit you any better - if so, maybe it's the fillers used in the construction of what constitutes a ' stable ' Thyroid S tablet
I remember reading the content once and it was a much longer list of ingredients than that of other brands on NDT - I believe Efra is said to have ' less fillers ' and better suited to those of us dealing with Hashimoto's AI thyroid disease.
So sorry - if with a stomach issue on all treatment options maybe this needs sorting out first as no treatment option will work optimally if there are any gut health issues.
I have never tried Erfa nor Armour. When I looked into purchasing costs, it is too expensive for me. It isn't stomach issues which cause my problems with the products. Synthetic T3 caused a driving racey feeling but with constant fatigue even at a micro dose. Synthetic T4 didn't address my poor T4 to T3 conversion and made me gain weight which is a mega issue for me. My blood results are the best they have ever been with Thyroid S, it is just the way I feel starting new batches and some are better than others. My bloods are generally quite consistent.
I am currently taking 22012 and find it slightly stronger than whatever I was on before for the last 5 years and have had to drop down 1/4 grain :
The TA22012 batch is my last one, and this one has been the best one regarding not causing adverse symptoms. I still have a few left, and have resorted to taking some after starting my current batch, and the acheyness and fatigue left, this may be psychosomatic though. I have been tempted to see if any folk on here has this batch they are not using for whatever reason and see if I could buy it off them. I'm just desperate to feel more energised instead of feeling like I am ploughing through thick treacle most of the time. Thanks for your info and your thoughts.
Yes, I hear what you are saying as I'm too am now settled on the same batch and of course I too would like continuity of content when I'll need a new bottle in a few months time.
We're only delaying the inevitable and think now we know of this tolerance level between batches we just need to be prepared to accept small dose adjustments from batch to batch - but it shouldn't mean starting back at square one, as per your original question.
Absolutely 😁
I started TA22057 about two months ago and have put on weight for no reason and am feeling more tired than usual. I am going to do a blood test next week so it will be interesting to see the results compared to my last one. I currently take 3 grains.
OK then - it's difficult to say anything of any value at this point in time and weight gain without there being any obvious reason needs addressing.
So yes, running a blood test may show up something especially if we have previous readings from when you felt well to compare with.
Oh, that's not good at all dottyb09. My worst nightmare! I struggled with bloating and weight gain with Levo, and finally managed to loose it when I started Thyroid S. It does seem an odd batch as someone else is also having issues.
I have managed to persuade my gp practice to give me a blood test even though I am not due yet, to see what my levels are with this TA22057. I too certainly feel bloated/weighty now. Be worth trying to get one too. On my previous batch I was on 2 1/4 grains. I am up to 2 1/2 and don't feel right.
Hi Maplemoose. We have spoke in the past . I am starting the same batch u have. I know ,thanks to helvella blog,that this batch will be not as strong as previous one. Sorry to hear its causing some issues. I am going to start tomorrow and take 1 1/4 straight away, same as previous batch. Please post your blood test results so I can maybe get a rough idea about this batch?? Wishing you the best.
Thanks mintgreenish. My test is Tuesday am, and I'm desperate to see the results as I don't feel right and feel like I am gaining weight 😒. I was on 2 1/4 on my previous batch and that was great. I've increased with this one and having several issues. I hope I can sort it out as I don't want to have to buy more if possible. All the best with starting it, I'll let you know.
Hi Maplemoose. How are you getting on? Did you get your blood test results? I also increased 1/4 as I Started having issues as well. I think i will raise again in a week. Best regards
Hi Mintgreenish. I have been contacted by my GP practice, requesting to book an appointment to discuss my blood results, which never happens unless there are issues. I am going tomorrow and I am taking this as an indicator there is a problem with the batch. I have actually resorted to taking my previous batch again as I was feeling quite rough and felt like I was gaining weight and swelling up. When I've finished, I will have to look at buying another batch unfortunately.
So sorry to hear . Maybe you just need increasing? Wishing you the best.
Hi Maplemoose. Just want to know that I increased from 1 1/4 previous batch to 1 1/2 . After 1 week became constipated again and now on 1 3/4 constipation gone. Still a bit achy and may need to up again. Theres hope this batch 22057 will work out. How are you getting on?
Hi mintgreenish. I am currently back on my old batch after sourcing some more of it. I am booked in to my GP practice to have my T3 level checked as they missed it on my blood test a week ago 🙄. I came off the TA22057 because I was feeling very fluey, swollen and was gaining weight. I also felt very fatigued even when I increased the dose. I went from 2 1/4 to 3 1/4 grains, and didn't feel any different. I think the TA22057 batch has messed up my system, as I am not totally back to feeling the way I did on the TA22012 before starting the TA22057. I do however, feel better than I did since stopping it. I hope it works for you. It's an expensive job ditching batches if they don't seem to work.
Hi Maplemoose. Glad to hear your feeling better and hopefully going back to your old batch will work out for you. Wishing you all the best and a return to feeling well again.
Thank you. Would you let me know how you feel after you do another increase please? It would be interesting to see how this batch works for others, thanks. All the best!
Yes will let u know
How's the increase? Are you feeling well on the batch now?
Hi Maplemoose. I started to get feelings of being overmedicated and have reduced to 1 1/2 plus 1/8, I cut 1/4 in half to get 1/8, so I would say this batch is just slighty less strong from previous batch. My feelings are it is not a weak batch , just need to adjust it. How are you feeling? Are you still on previous batch?
Hi Mintgreenish. What was your previous batch? Was it TA22012? What symptoms do you get when you're overmedicated? I get the same as when I'm undermedicated, just maybe heart flutters at times as well, so I find it hard to know if I'm over or under at lot of the time. I haven't really reached a sweet spot unfortunately. I am waiting for my T3 result. I keep getting swelling feelings and I am back on my old batch so I'm not sure what's happened since coming off it, trialling TA22057 and reverted back to the old batch (TA22012). I feel lime my weight is creeping up, probably because of the swelling. It will be interesting to know if you have reached your sweet spot with this new dose.
Hi Dotty I am also taking same batch as you and am having to increase from previos batch i was taking. Can I ask how your getting on and how much did you have to increase so far? Thankyou
In case it helps anyone taking, or considering, Thyroid S;
Thyroid S Batches
A summary of known and suspected potency of Thyroid S batches.
helvella.blogspot.com/p/thy...
Last updated 2023/05/31
These issues give a degree of credibility to the claims made by many endos that NDT is ‘unstable’. I’ve spent years fighting this assertion and hope I’m not about to be proved wrong 😳
Bear in mind, in the UK, levothyroxine is permitted within the range 90 to 105% (over its shelf life).
Which is a very significant variation.
(To make an illustration, imagine a pack of levothyroxine 100 which actually contained 85 in each tablet. Not quite arithmetically correct, but close enough when painting a picture.)
Around 20 years ago, the entirety of USA levothyroxine products were forced to apply for approval as if brand new medicines. The reason being such appalling quality over many, many years and despite repeated warnings from the FDA.
I've just found an article suggesting that batches can vary by as much as 10% in order to maintain the unique ratio of 1 /4.22 T3/ T4 found in NDT.
So we are looking at a T3 between 8.10-9.90 and T4 between 34.20-41.80:
To ' meet the 'stringent standards of US Pharmacopeia monograph ' - not quite sure what that last word means - but would think Thailand has similar standards in place.
Having no thyroid - I'm not sure if this makes any difference to one's awareness of this potential 10% variance - first off I thought I had the flu and just soldiered on like you do, and then, when answering someone on here, remembered that I too had opened a new bottle.
Sadly the old bottle had been recycled by the time I ' woke up ' to consider it not the flu so immediately opened another bottle only to find I now need a little less than the dose I was on for 5 years without any problems.
So - I think I'm pretty much ok now whether it was a mixture of flu and/or new batch, I simply can't say and will try the suspect batch as it's a lot of money to throw away when maybe I just need to stay with it a bit and be open to increasing once or twice by 1/4 grains.
So it would seem that such ‘instability’ is not confined to NDT 🙃
Looks like it !!
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