1000 unit vit D or 4000 unit vit D....

[joey82]

Hi,

Holland and Barret sell 4000 unit Vit D. Would it be better to take one of these a day instead of multiple intakes of 1000 units?

Cheers

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

joey82

Personally I wouldn't buy H&B brand of anything. There are much better brands out there. If it's a tablet form of D3 then again I wouldn't buy it. Tablets contain, by their very nature, excipients, you can't make a tablet without them.

D3 is fat soluble and the best type of D3 supplement is one that contains some kind of fat to aid absorption, eg softgels that contain D3 plus olive oil or a liquid containing oil.

Why take 4 x 1000iu of something when you can take 1 x 4,000iu?

Your current level of 66nmol/L requires 3,700iu D3 daily to reach the recommended level of 100-150nmol/L. 3,700 x 7 = 25,900iu per week. The cheapest way for you to supplement D3 is to take 5 days of 5,000iu per week along with 90-100mcg K2-MK7 on each of those days (perhaps Monday to Friday and have weekends off). Don't forget D3's other important cofactor - magnesium.

[joey82 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you Susue, understood. I currently take soft gels but am about to run out.

Can you explain to me in layman's terms what K2 - MK7 is? I've never heard of it.

How do you get your magnesium?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to joey82]

joey82

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and Vit K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc. 90-100mcg K2-MK7 is enough for up to 10,000iu D3.

For Vit K2-MK7 my suggestions are Vitabay, Vegavero or Vitamaze brands which all contain the correct form of K2-MK7 - the "All Trans" form rather than the "Cis" form. The All Trans form is the bioactive form, a bit like methylfolate is the bioactive form of folic acid.

Vitabay and Vegavero are either tablets or capsules.

Vitabay does do an oil based liquid.

Vitamaze is an oil based liquid.

With the oil based liquids the are xx amount of K2-MK7 per drop so you just take the appropriate amount of drops.

They are all imported German brands, you can find them on Amazon although they do go out of stock from time to time. I get what I can when I need to restock. If the tablet or capsule form is only in 200mcg dose at the time I take those on alternate days.

If looking for a combined D3/K2 supplement, this one has 3,000iu D3 and 50mcg K2-MK7. The K2-MK7 is the All-Trans form

natureprovides.com/products...

It may also be available on Amazon.

One member recently gave excellent feedback on this particular product here:

Here is what she said (also read the following replies):

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Magnesium which helps the body convert D3 into it's usable form.

There are many types of magnesium so we have to check to see which one is most suitable for our own needs:

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

explore.globalhealing.com/t...

and ignore the fact that this is a supplement company, the information is relevant:

swansonvitamins.com/blog/ar...

Magnesium should be taken 4 hours away from thyroid meds and as it tends to be calming it's best taken in the evening. Vit D should also be taken 4 hours away from thyroid meds. Vit K2-MK7 should be taken 2 hours away from thyroid meds. Don't take D3 and K2 at the same time unless both are oil based supplements, they both are fat soluble vitamins which require their own fat to be absorbed otherwise they will compete for the fat.

Don't start all supplements at once. Start with one, give it a week or two and if no adverse reaction then add the next one. Again, wait a week or two and if no adverse reaction add the next one. Continue like this. If you do have any adverse reaction then you will know what caused it.

[joey82 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Many thanks Susie. I will get onto it.

[janeroar in reply to SeasideSusie]

I noticed the Nature Provides D& K combo is in black seed oil. It’s worth pointing out this isn’t to many people’s taste. It’s VERY strong tasting. I bought some oil (on its own not with vitamins ) and it’s sitting there daring me to drink it. It’s honestly the worst taste I’ve ever had in my mouth! Some people swear by it and I know there’s been threads about it on this forum

This brand has vitamin d and k in MCT oil -don’t know if MCT oil is particularly beneficial

MAX Absorption Vitamin D3 + K2 (MK-7) Liquid Drops with MCT Oil, Naturally Unflavored, Helps Support Strong Bones and Healthy Heart amzn.eu/d/0i5vjBQ

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to janeroar]

I've not used the Nature Provides yet, I am considering doing so when I have used up my current stock of D3 and K2, so can't comment on taste from personal experience.

I did have a discussion with the nutritionist at Nature Provides a while ago about whether or not their K2-MK7 was All Trans or Cis (their online description at the time didn't state this) and she confirmed it was the All Trans form and told me

It's important also that what it is with isn't going to turn it into cis as can happen with some ingredients even if it's starts off 100% trans. I think l-argenine does this for example. Vitamin D3 and black seed oil do not.

[janeroar in reply to SeasideSusie]

that’s interesting SeasideSusie thanks. Would be interested in your thoughts about the product with MCT oil.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to janeroar]

Would be interested in your thoughts about the product with MCT oil.

It doesn't mention whether the K2-MK7 is All Trans or Cis and it's usually Cis when it's not mentioned so I wouldn't consider this product just from reading the description.

[gabkad in reply to SeasideSusie]

Vitamin K2-MK4 is the form in which K2 is present in animal sources like egg yolk and chicken liver. Ancestrally humans broke open animal bones to consume the marrow which is also a rich source of MK4.

MK7 is sourced from fermented soybeans. It has a much longer serum half life because it's actually not the best source of vitamin K2. Fermented soybeans were not part of the human ancestral diet or a source of K2.

The vegan 'gurus' are all into the MK7 form, of course, but there are no studies to prove that this form of the vitamin helps with bone health. There is plenty of information in the medical literature to show that MK4 is effective. In Japan doses of 45 mg K2-MK4 are used for patients with osteoporosis.

The vitamin D3/K2 combos contain miniscule amounts of K2-MK7. 90 to 120 mcg. It is highly unlikely that such low doses will contribute anything substantial to bone health.

There are K2-MK4 supplements available and in much higher doses. Thorne has an oil based MK4 supplement containing 5 mg per drop. Carlson has 5 mg MK4 capsules as well.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to gabkad]

janeroar and others, if you want to look further into what gabkad has said then it's worth noting that MK4 has a short life-span, it has a half life of about 1.5 hours and needs multiple doses during the day when supplementing. MK7 has a half life of about 72 hours, so a once daily dose is enough. The articles that I have read suggest that 90-100mcg MK7 is enough for up to 10,000iu dose of Vit D. I'm sure you can find more information if you use your favourite search engine then you can decide which form of K2 and the dose you wish to use.

[gabkad in reply to SeasideSusie]

Susie, the fact that MK-4 has a short serum half life means it is absorbed into the body much more efficiently than MK-7 which seemingly floats around with a serum half life of 2 1/2 days. This does not mean it is 'better'. I think it means that it actually isn't what our bodies require.

I have not found any studies to indicate that there is a miminal dose of MK-7 that will permit a person to take 10,000 IU of D3. I am open and willing to read any study that proves this to be the case.

[janeroar in reply to SeasideSusie]

chris Kresser has a new vit d/k combo out (mk4 interestingly) in MCT oil

adaptnaturals.com/products/...

[Jumbelina in reply to SeasideSusie]

Excellent advice Susie. I didn't know about taking D3 and K2 separately (unless oil based)

[SilverSavvy in reply to SeasideSusie]

I have been doing a lot of research into vitamins these past two weeks and was horrified to learn that Holland and Barrett is owned by a holding company based in Luxembourg....that is founded by a Russian oil individual. Which means it is hardly likely to pay it's fair share of tax to the UK economy. They also mass produce, requiring lots of fillers and additives to extend shelf life.

Anyone tried a company called British Supplements? They claim to pay tax here and use only the cleanest ingredients with no additional 'nasties'.

I'd be interested to know if their products work.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to SilverSavvy]

Anyone tried a company called British Supplements?

There have been a few mentions of them. My personal opinion is that their website seems to be dedicated to slagging off other supplement companies. Not the way to do business in my opinion and doesn't encourage me to purchase from them. There are other supplement companies who sell "clean" supplements who don't find it necessary to do this.

I wonder if anyone's actually checked out their claims?