vit d

Hi again, just looked at my previous post and realized I had made a typo error, I put I was on 7 days of 2000 vit D it should of been 20,000. Anyway, more advice needed I have two more 20,000 to take, and then my GP said go back to the 800. Just wondering how long it takes to get into your system as I still feel really tired, and also does 800 sound enough as a maintenance dose. How long should I wait to have bloods done again, as my GP said three months.

34 Replies

  • Hi ann, you can actually make changes for a typo. The little down arrow at bottom right allows you to edit, so just change it and then post edit.

    Do you expect vitamin D to stop your fatigue? Do you know what your level is? It is common to use a high dose to build up d levels. No, 800 i.u. is not enough for a daily dose. I took 15,000 i.u. twice a week for several weeks and did not get to "sufficient". I also get lots of sun so it seems something else is wrong. Too long to explain here if you don't have the problem.

  • Hi, yes I thought it might help with fatigue, but I am also low Vit B12 so it could be that. My level of vit D was 30. I agree I dont think 800 is enough.

  • I watched a lecture given by an American neurologist about vitamin D levels. She said that patient who had good levels in September and took 1,000 IU per day were deficient by February. People who took 2,000 IU maintained the level they had in September.

    Given that your level is quite low, it's speculative if taking 140,000 IU over a 1 week period will elevate your level to 'good'. It depends on how well you absorb it. Taking vitamin D3 with a meal that contains some sort of fat increases absorption since it is a fat soluble vitamin.

    But if you want to be safe and not sorry, take 2,000 to 2, 500 IU per day after you are done with the big doses. You do not, in fact, have to take it daily. You can take 14,000 to 20,000 IU once per week along with a meal that contains fat. This way you won't get fed up with taking yet more pills or capsules every day.

  • Thank you for your advice, I must admit my GP is pretty useless, he just prescribed the 800 until I got a copy of my results and went to see him. I asked was that enough considering my result was quite low. He then prescribed the 20,000 for a week, but still said just take the 800 after. I will take your advice and suggest a higher dose.

  • Hi A,

    Yes, would second the suggestion to consider Fearless Parent article . . . . . consider ( - & hopefully exclude the known "vit D dysfunction" in yourself) before making a decision on supplementing . . . . its only logical, given what is reasonably known and understood about this !

    TC, ;~))x

  • Hi All, something new on the horizon about D supplementation. If you are interested:

  • Yes this has been around for some time . Excellent discussion after the article if you have a week or two to spare :-) I am still confused but thank you for the reminder.

    After reading about TH1 dominance and the problems with supplementing D posted by Epictetus - I halved my dose and within a week felt quite unwell. Nothing specific - just felt the aches and pains.

    Rod posted a piece of research done here in Crete some time ago about people with Hashimotos having problems with their VDR's.

    So what's a girl to do ?

  • Yes, Epictetus is the person who mentioned it and the reason was because I had said I feel more pain on the days I take vitamin D. I have taken many different formulas and lately were liquid drops and easy to take a large dose. He felt that I might have the problem with this type of reaction. Janeb has given me reams of information about cell wall deficient CWD bacteria. I guess molds are the cause (I don't know if they are the only cause). If these are affecting millions of people, it might be wise to find out more about them.

    Perhaps Rod, hey Rod, could expound.

  • Heloise,

    Apart from its central role in calcium and bone physiology, Vit D is an immunomodular, and the conversion of 25(OH)D to the active form of vitamin D (1,25(OH02D) has effects on epithelial cells, T-cells, B cells, and dendritic cell functions, which are important for innate and adaptive immunity.

    There are various reasons for not utilising Vit D by usual synthesis and I think blocked VDR’s as you suggest are quite likely along with more general ... GI issues, high cortisol levels, not eating enough fats, inflammation caused by auto immune disease, etc …

    According to Marshall a bacterial infection is often seen in this problem as Vit D regulation metabolism seems to be an integral part of the bodies reaction to intra phagocytise CWD bacteria behind the TH-1 diseases.

    TH-1 dominant patients also tend to acquire difficult to eradicate chronic bacteria & parasite infections… probably down to a number of reasons as listed above re blocked VD receptors.

    The New Research Vit D book (which is actually quite old ! .) states in some cases 125D actually suppresses the inflammation but in others increases so other factors are obviously at play.

    If this were me (& its not because I am fine with Vit D) I would identify any long term bacterial infections such as . .. Borrelia Burgdorferi, Chlamydiae Pnemoniae, Helicobacter Pylori, etc ...

    I think it was Marshall (but really can’t remember) who successfully treated people with chronic infections and an elevated 1,25D with Olmesartan and other antibiotics in a repeated cycle.

    Theoretically if the Vit D issue was solved the immune system would be modulated and TH-1 responses would calm I guess.

    Don’t forget Vit D regulates the expression of genes associated with calcium homeostasis… have you checked parathyroid glands ?

    Steroids, antacids can inhibit Vit D conversion.

    Flower (2012) (2010)

  • Thank you, Flower. I was too busy to really look this over earlier but I am now.

    It's annoying that what I think is an alarming problem is so obscure. I know a person whose level is 7 (50-100) which sounds very ominous to me now. Will they survive another day????

    Mine is not that bad. I have to learn more about TH-1. Yes, stay away from steroids and antacids. Pepto Bismol may have some use in this. it's one of the H Pylori treatments or used to be.

  • Hi Marz,

    I'm inclined to suggest you seek opinions on the specific presentations of your case on the specialist forums for the "vit D dysfunction" - will be SO interesting to read what they come up with ( - sorry if I've suggested that b4 . . . . . or failed to !)

    Also wondering now whether the high dose in your case is/could be acting as an immunosuppressant . . . . . and if this is the case, I'd be concerned about the long term effect of it. I hope the one (or two?) forum(s) on "the dysfunction" will be more in a position to have better clues, ideas or hypotheses on what might be going than we do on this one. If so, please do advise accordingly !

    One GUESS is your body may/could be "deactivating" most of what you take . . . . 'cos it doesn't really want more calcitriol ( - even tho' with it you FEEL better) and only a small portion of your HUGH dose gets converted to the (?immuno-suppressing, in you) calcitriol [- only a potential scenario; but one which could be further investigated with the specialist calcitriol test . . . . . . . which I understand are not so readily available these days/yet[.

    Hope that helps !

    From a cold autumnal UK, battered by hurricane-force winds !

    ;~))x X

  • ...wondering where I should head for advice ??

  • . . . . aren't there forums for this associated with C.I.R.C.L.E. ( - mentioned in F. Parent) . . . . and with the Marshall Protocol site too ? ? ? I think so.

    Do explore ! ;~))x

  • Don't think I am a fan of the MP - having read about it on the thread today.....

  • . . . . they are (sadly) many negative, dismissive . . . . and even scathing views, "reviews" and opinions about this now considerable body of knowledge . . . . and yet I have not found any actual biochemically valid constructive objection or refutation.

    Further, this body of work is the ONLY one I know of that has been identified the "vit D dysfunction" and how with it a "temporary palliative effective" has been observed ! ! ! What about all the other (so-called!) "vit D" 'experts' (- how good are they?) - havn't they OBSERVED this in ANY of the countless they've advised to supplement ? ? ? ! Seems not - most peculiar ! ! !

    [NB: one para. in Holick's Vit D Solution, (to be fair) mentions the vit D "hypersensivity" - on ?p.241 . . . . but no detail, beyond that about what to actually do to RESOLVE it ! Implies he does NOT know ? ? ?]

    I think you'd be better off seeking the opinions of this body of experience ( - including the MP !) . . . . . and just considering it . . . . . b4 deciding whether it makes sense in your case . . . or not ! I'm sure you'll choose the option right for you !


  • Thank you - will ponder and act eventually !!

  • I'm wondering now if I should I just throw out the bottle of vit d drops I just bought and start on olmesartan instead of losartan which I was taking for kidney protection but had stopped?

    There is so much conflicting info out there, I have no clue which what to do anymore. If we have autoimmune diseases and low calcidiol is really a sign of high calcitriol which is causing more inflammation then we shouldn't be supplementing it at all.

    I remember now I had stopped it before the other vitamins I had stopped for my thyroid and vitamin tests due to worrying that my symptoms could be in part from too much vitamin D.

  • To Marz and 000ggg, i think it would be pertinent to get the 2,0HD test to prove it before you throw anything out although they said it is an expensive test and a delicate test so what are the chances.?

    I have been reading more about biofilms than VRD and it seems they set up in the nasal area or the gut but one said they are "outside" the gut which means they are inside the body. I don't know how you get to them in that case and they can't be killed by antibiotics.

    000ggg, I wonder if the infection came first and then the vitamin D dysregulation and then the thyroid problems followed. So is that why you were taking losartan? The adrenals are involved and sitting on the kidneys makes a clear connection. I haven't absorbed enough yet but we always felt that leaky gut was the basic cause of autoimmune conditions so this may be part of the mechanism. If anyone knows????

  • I was taking losartan for prevention of kidney damage not for high bp- people with diabetes are often recommended to be on bp meds even without high bp because it has a protective effect on damage to your kidneys. I went off it when my wbc kept going low and i had read losartan can cause that, although it wasn't in my case.

    I'm not sure if my calcitriol level is low or not and I'm sure it would be another argument to get that test. But this article seems to suggest that a study suggested this is happening in people with autoimmune diseases while people with low calcidriol who go in the sun and are healthy do not have high calcitriol causing inflammation- in my case type 1 and possible hashis and who knows what else( I also have asthma and raynauds and was diagnosed with ocular rosacea). I had read about low vitamin D playing a role in type 1 so I started supplementing it and then I read that too much can cause fatigue and other symptoms so I stopped it for a while.

    I don't believe in leaky gut at this point. But vitamin D does seem to play a role in auto- immune diseases. I actually almost never go in the sun except in the late afternoon/early evening now due to fair skin and feeling ill in the sun and rashes/sun poisoning/burning etc. But fair people with red hair etc. are supposed to be able to convert it more rapidly. I also wear sunscreen most of the time on my face and sunscreen clothing etc.

  • 000ggg, I have read or listened to audio about this and there are other treatments. Heavy metals draw the infection but not silver, so colloidal silver is used. Also there are some Chinese and Ayurvedic herbs. I really hate to take a manmade treatment except as a last resort but that is a blood pressure medication so I don't know why such dire warnings but I'll take their word for it.

    You also have to be careful that you don't spread the infection with some of the treatments. We'll have to find out more.

    I don't think you can say "low calcidiol is really a sign of high calcitriol " unless you test both. I think low D can be lack of sun as well. Of course, that could be wrong.

  • Maybe not, but that article seems to be saying it and that that bp med can help- I'm exhausted and have to reread it. Anyway, no harm would be done to try that bp med instead of losartan most likely, unless it gives me bad runs which I'm prone to. I'm not having anything to do with heavy metals and herbs are problematic for me since I'm allergic to many plants.

  • Do you have olmesartan . . . . . and know how to use it for purposes of clearing this "vit D dysfunction" ?

    It's best to seek the advice of a practitioner familiar & experienced with this protocol, if possible to confirm that you have ( - or have not) this dysfunction and supervise the protocol, as appropriate - this is not something the uninitiated can do on one's own ( - at least not without a great deal of study, I'd suggest).

    If you feel you have deteriorated on supplementing with "vit D" then this is ONE sign pointing towards having the dysfunction ( - even after a period of seeming benefit !).

    A practitioner familiar with the dysfunction and the proposed treatment protocol will/should be in a position to look for a RANGE of such signs/symptoms, order the correct blood tests ( - including calcitriol) and (hopefully) correctly rule in or out the existence of the dysfunction in any one particular case.

    Do ANY ONE know of such a practitioner in the UK ? ? ? This would be a helpful start ! It is going to prove more elusive than finding an endo prepared to prescribe T3, say ? ? ?

  • I don't know anyone who uses it for that and this is the first I have read about any of this. I can't remember what the article said about its use- maybe it's just a normal bp dose like I was on for kidney protection which was 50mg losartan 1x per day. Btw even with normal bp most of the time it seemed to have no effect on my bp such as lowering it too much. You know, I thought it could have been vitamin D however there is no way to know for sure, there could be numerous other reasons.

  • Charlie would like you to apply for a position of one of his Angels !

    I think you may be up to it myself ! ! ! How about it ? ? ?

    ;~))x XX

  • So glad you chimed in, Epic. I was going to send you the thread later. People are way ahead of me but if I don't get carried away with microcurrent technology, I will continue.

    BTW microcurrents were noticed in the 20's to reduce pain, formulated in the 40's and suppressed by the government soon after. May have to find out much more about this. It's similar to the the remote that unlocks your car.

  • Hi Gabkad,

    "Patient", or "patients" (in the above) - how large was that study ?

    If those with the known "vit D dysfunction" take 50mcg/day (=2000IU) they will in time (prob?) feel V. ill, as I know, . . . . . or their 25(OH)D blood levels will FAIL to rise ( - I've come across this too ! In this later case, it may be speculated, if it is not known already, that the body is deactivating the additional supplemented calcidiol, in a PROTECTIVE measure . . . . . and NOT activating it to the potent calcitriol ! Makes sense to me !).

    The MOST reasonable advice on supplementing with D3 should now ALREADY be to ( - given the reliable empirical observations and documented research) :

    i) check calcidiol or 25(OH)D levels ( - as routinely done these days, since about 2010 in UK) . . . . . . AND,

    ii) EXCLUDE that a particular case is not presenting with the KNOWN "vit D dysfunction" ( - which sadly is NOT done at all in practice, to the DETERIMENT of those in the population who have this, almost always with signs/symptoms of one chronic inflammatory illness or other, . . . . . . says a CONSIDERABLE body of medical opinion dating back to at least the mid-80s).

    Sadly UK practice is WHOLLY EXCLUDING the above SECOND safe-guarding step . . . . . much to the shame of the medical profession . . . . . . AND causing FORESEEABLE avoidable HARM to an already ILL sub-group.

    Hope Canadian practice is significantly better ! Do enlighten, please.

    Time to watch some more beach volley ball, I think !

    ;~))x X

  • In the U.S. blood testing for vitamin D blood levels is covered by insurance quarterly. Here it's not covered by provincial health ministry insurance at all. They are not interested in vitamin D blood levels in Ontario.

    Your own Dr. Grimes, GI specialist in Bradford has a lecture on the vaguaries of vitamin D3 supplementation.

    There's a number of his lectures on YouTube.

  • Ahhhhh ! ! ! Thanks Hon - U R my heroine of the DAY ! ! !

    I only heard/came across the details of this chap's ?2009 Vit D book a little while ago . . . . and wanted to look him up. FAN-BRILL-TASTIC ! ! !

    He is/was at the Royal Blackburn Hospital (in 2011 according to the beginning of video).

    As said: Thanks ! ;~))x XXX

    Time for beach volley ball !

  • I have trouble reading your comment.

  • I don't understand - why did you have trouble ?

    Too much alcohol ? ? ? ;-o

    ;~))x XXX

  • You, me, or both? ;0

  • Ann,


    It is ALWAYS a good idea to get tested a while (eg several wks or 2-3 mths) after raising/reducing your dosage, so that you can figure out what the correct dosage is for you.

    Prof Holick, an endocrinologist who has researched vitamin D for 40 years, says in his interview (the video is in my link) that he takes a maintenance dose of 3000 iu all year round.

    A serum blood level of Vitamin D of 100-150 nmol and/or 40-60 ng is recommended by 48 scientists, inc Prof Holick, as the optimal range in the signed statement which you'll see in the link below.

  • Hi Ann,

    Feel I'd better add that 20,000IU (= 500mcg or 0.5mg) PER DAY is a HUGH dose . . . . . . but at least it was limited to 7 days ( - with a certain sigh of relief) !

    If you see the video link above by Gabkad of Dr Grimes, from 2011, he is taking about this 20,000IU or 0.5mg dose PER WEEK ( - for a limited period of months ?).

    Anyway, given the weight of evidence for the Fearless Parent article body of knowledge about this "vit D dysfunction" which does NOT apply to everybody, it only seems REASONABLE ensure a person is excluded from having this BEFORE any recommendation to raise blood CALCIDIOL [ or 25(OH)D] level is made.

    Hope that makes sense !


  • Thank you so much for your help. I have just watched the video which is both informative and frightening. I am taking a supplement of jarrow b12 2000 a day. I have been taking them for about six weeks and find I am not getting out of breath and feel my mood has lifted a bit. My level has gone from 240 to 750. Without this site I would not even know anything about B12 so I thank everyone who has given me advice.

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