I posted on here a few months ago about my partners Thyroid/Fibro issues , unfortunately I dont know how to find that thread and include it so here is a summary, I have also attached spreadsheet with thyroid and Iodine results, her vits and iron etc are all excellent.
My partner has Fibro and is always cold. As you can see from spreadsheet her TSH is rising and FT3 falling. We couldnt find a thyroid doc such as Dr Peatfield etc so on recommendation contacted a well know Naturopath who apparently specialises in Thyroid. As you can see shown on the spreadsheet he started her on Iodine 2 drops a day in 6th April and increased to 4 drops a day mid June and tried Metavive and Phenyalanine. The iodine was based on several patch tests which cleared after about 6 hours, apparently showing that she was deficient in Iodine. She felt a lot worse during these experiments and as you can see from the spreadsheet since treatment her antibodies spiked and fell again and her TSH increases quite fast and FT3 and FT4 fell. We did the blood tests the Naturopath didnt do any just patch tests. Anyway by mid Sept my partner was feeling a lot worse and decided to stop consulting the Naturopath, I thought it would be prudent to do a uring iodine test via Genova/Thyroid UK to check if she was iodine deficient. The results are shown in the spreadsheet ie Iodine in urine is 322 with a range of 100-199 ug/L. Sounds pretty dangeroes to me. The urine test was done in 25th Oct and the iodine supplementation of 4 drops was stopt mid Sept, I hate to think what her Iodine levels were in Sept etc. Since stopping treatment she is slowly recovering to pre treatment levels in how she feels but as we can see from the blood test done 27th Oct that TSH is 7.24 , FT3 is 3.7 and FT4 is 13.6. Also her CRP has gone up from 0.5 in 2021 to 6.38 now, I dont know if this is related but she had a Covid and Flu vaccine about a week before the blood test. I also wonder if the Covid and Flu vaccine may affect the thyroid blood test results.
Sorry if that was bit long winded , my question is , what to do next. We had planned to start Armour at 1/4 grain and to increase by 1/4 every two weeks but I hear Armour contains iodine, is it a significant amount?. Or should we wait until Iodine is back to being in range before starting Armour. She is keen to get started having wasted 6 months with the Naturopath and not very good TSH and FT3/FT4. We dont have a thyroid doc so plan to do it ourselves, I have been on most Hormones inc Thyroid since 17 years and manage my own due to not being able to find a doc we trust. I have ordered another urine Iodine test from Genova as the last test sample was done 25th Oct which is a month ago so hopefuly her iodine levels will have dropt by now. Unfortunately it took aboout a month to get the results of the urine test back from Genova so we wont know if Iodine is okay for another month, so should we start Armour now or wait and maybe even do another Blood test. Or do something else?. All suggestions most welcome. I suppose its also worth asking how accurate are the Urien Iodine tests , some are of the view Iodine cant be measured??
thanks if your still reading
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ainslie
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I did two of the same test so I could compare results before and after taking a supplement with iodine.
I planned to see a "hormone specialist" and in readiness I did a raft of different tests, one of which was this urine iodine test with Genova. My level came back exactly mid-range at 150 (100-199).
Practioner, amongst other things, suggested a multivitamin/mineral (I know better now!) which contained 150mcg iodine. I reminded her that my iodine level was exactly mid-range so I wouldn't need iodine but she said it would be fine.
A few months later I retested and my level had gone up to 250 so for me that showed the second result reflected the fact that I had been supplementing.
wow , I am impressed with your thoroughness, also makes me feel a bit less obscessional as I also go about things with a similar level of scrutiny which can of course annoy doctors sometimes
Good grief…..yet another idiot naturopath tipping ridiculous amount of iodine in someone
I KNOW WE ARE FURIOUS, ASSUMING THE URINE TEST IS ACCURATE OF COURSE?
Clueless
AND OVER CONFIDENT
I would WAIT re thyroid …..likely to see TSH improves as iodine disaptes
I WONDERED ABOUT THAT BUT IF YOU LOOK BACK AT TSH IN 2021 AND 2022 BEFORE IODINE MESS STARTED HER TSH WAS ALREADY OVER 3 , SO IT WAS GOING WRONG ALREADY?, WOULD YOU DEFO WAIT SHE HAS HAD THROID SYMPTOMS SINCE YEARS ,ALWAYS COLD, HAS FIBRO FOR 10 YEARS
Retest iodine levels in another 2 months
OKAY THANKS
Meanwhile
What are her most recent vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 levels,
WE CHECKED THIS WHEN I POSTED LAST TIME, FROM MEMORY VIT D OVER 200, NOW REDUCING DOSE, fERRITIN 105, b12 WAS OVER HALF WAY IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY
For good thyroid levels we need GOOD vitamin levels
What vitamin supplements is she currently taking. ALMOST EVERYTHING. A,B- STRONG MULTI ,C,D,K,PROBIOTICS, PHOSPHITIDYL CHOLINE, EPO, AND THEN SOME. SHE SAW A FUNTIONAL MEDICINE TYPE DOC FOR YEARS WHO TUNED UP VITS AND DIET
What’s her diet like
GOOD, ORGANIC, GOOD PROTEIN, VEG, HEALTHY FATS, NO JUNK, NO DAIRY
Vegetarian or vegan
SHE LIKE RIB EYE AND ROAST BEEF!!
Gluten intolerant or dairy intolerant
DONT THINK SO
Cheapest test for all four vitamins includes thyroid levels too
Medichecks or Blue horizon
Always test thyroid levels early morning ideally just before 9am
Anything significant happen in June 2021 ……Covid for example?
NO COVID, JUST 4 VACCINES, A BIT PUZZLED WHY HER CRP JUMPED UP FROM 0.5 TO 6.
What age is your partner ….
66
Female?
YES
pre or post menopause?
POST MENOPAUSE BUT HAS BEEN ON GOOD HRT SINCE 2018 VIA DOCS WHO DO THE BIO IDENTICAL STUFF
Yes its a Solgar B complex 100, why aversion to Multivits, is it because some contain iodine?
Not keen on Dairy on the advice of many Hormone docs inc Hertoghe, also ENT doc showed cheese made her dizzy. Everyone to their own of course.
You helpfully suggested why not start Levo if tests shows she needs thyroid replacement, we are thinking about that but if we look at the spreadsheet dates 2021 and 2022 before Iodine disaster TSH was already over 3 although FT3 and Ft4 looks okayish and she has many symptoms which may imply thyroid deficient, cold, low pulse and BP, mental fog, very fatigued, Fibro etc etc. If we agree that these TSH levels and symptoms constitutes she needs thyroid replacement??, then the decision has to be made NDT or Levo.
If its Levo does that have to come from a GP?, if so will a GP in Scotland prescribe on those counts, possibly not. If he does then we have to wait and wrestle with the NHS to get what we want, then she may need T3 to supplement the Levo and are we likely to get that from GP? How long will the whole process take.
Should or can we buy Levo and get on with it ourselves ?, have never thought about buying Levo, is that doible?/ expensive?. Alternatively we have Armour or ERFA, what is the advantage of Levo over Armour? apart from saving money which is significant as I know from being on ERFA myself. I note that all the Hormone docs eg Hertoghe /John Lowe/Peatfield etc are keen on NDT as opposed to Levo. However I note many on her inc you are better on Levo if I remeber correctly.
She has Fibro and having studied John Lowes and Gina Honeymans mega books on the Metabolic treatment of Fibro using thyroid meds its clear that they treat on symptoms not just counts and I wonder if the GP would be happy to go on safely increasing Levo until symptom free from Fibro as John Lowe etc suggests , I suspect not? , hence does the GP/Levo route have limitations bearing in mind sorting the Fibro is the main goal.
I dont know the answer and am just thinking out loud and not disagreeing with either view, just trying to look at the options, all views welcome. Thank you
I would certainly consider starting on levothyroxine, even if eventually adding/change to Levothyroxine plus NDT or Levothyroxine plus T3 …..or any other variation
Thank you for all info, most helpful, we are going to Spain for 2 months early Dec and maybe her TSH will be under 5 again by our return when iodine hopefully normalises which may exclude the GP Levo route as I doubt he wouuld help unless TSH over 5, but we shall mull it over and no doubt be back on here again
We had planned to start Armour at 1/4 grain and to increase by 1/4 every two weeks but I hear Armour contains iodine, is it a significant amount?.
Yes, there is iodine in Armour because Armour is thyroid hormone, and that's what thyroid hormone is: L-Tyrosine + iodine. One molecule of T4 contains four atoms of iodine, one of which is detached to make T3. The detached atom of iodine is recycled in the body.
So, 1 grain of Armour would contain approx. 29 mcg iodine.
It's because iodine is recycled that we don't need huge amounts of iodine daily. So, I have never been able to understand the logic of naturopath doctors giving huge doses of iodine to thyroid patients. What exactly do they expect it to do? Sorry your partner has had this horrbile experience. Been there, done that, got the knackered thyroid to show for it!
Thank you for helpful iodine numbers in Armour etc. ieone grain of Armour has 29mcg. My bottle of Lugols 15% has per drop 7.5mg Iodine and 11.25mg of Potassium iodide , so 4 drops a day seems a huge dose, do we know what our dietery requirement is.
A normal health adult needs 140 mcg iodine per day. But someone on thyroid hormone replacement would need less because their thyroid isn't making hormone anymore.
My vade mecum has some tables which show the percentages of their constituent elements - expressly intended to highlight the iodine content.
Attached image shows levothyroxine but document has T3 and T2 as well.
helvella - Vade Mecum for Thyroid
The term vade mecum means:
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2. A useful object, constantly carried on one’s person.
Please don't get put off by the number of pages!
Nor by the fact it is targeted at people interested in thyroid issues. Much of its contents could be of use to many involved in health issues. Things like abbreviations, lists, general reference information, an Appendix of links to many useful websites.
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