I've received my report and prescription from a well known private doctor. My results, as I know, are "very unusual", as my dose is high and levels very low. We can ignore suppressed TSH as I'm on T3 and he wants to retest in a month as it is urgent to get my levels up ASAP.
He prescribed 2 grain Armour tablets, one tablet twice a day. That's an equivalent of roughly 150mcg T4 and 36mcg T3 daily. I was on 200mcg synthetic T4 and 30mcg T3 and never once felt anything at all; nothing, zip, nada, from taking medication. So I'm on less T4 and tiny bit more T3.
I took the first HALF dose last night and was awake until 530am, feeling a little anxious and wired. Brain buzzing. I'm getting over a chest and sinus infection and have been out cold for most of this week. I took the second half dose this morning and have been a little anxious and wired, energetic all day and my arms and hands feel tingly. Nothing is terrible but Ifeel... different.
It says to expect it to take 2 or 3 weeks to notice it. Is it possible to feel this within one tablet?!
Thank you.
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Kitty1watson
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Looking back I see you tried NDT previously - do you remember if that NDT from Thailand suited you and on what dose you found a relief of symptoms ?
I'd suggest you stop what you are doing, and in a couple of days time drop down to 1 Armour tablet and take half a grain morning and afternoon :
After around a week, increase the morning dose by 1/4 grain -
Wait another week and then even up the afternoon dose by another 1/4 grain.
If you have no side effects continue slowly nudging up your dose in 1/4 grain increments :
When you reach 2 grains hold that dose for 6-8 weeks and then run a blood test and see what's changed from your bench mark results.
Your TSH will be low suppressed :
Your T4 may be low in range but your T3 should be proportionately higher in the range :
Monitor yourself on blood pressure, pulse and temperature as you go :
The T4 - Levothyroxine will take around 6-8 weeks to fully leave your body and the T3 - Liothyronine will be out of your system in around 3-4 days and as this treatment reduces in your body you slowly increase this new treatment option.
Thank you. I think I had mild improvement with ThyroGold years ago but it did nothing when I tried more recently, as if the formulation was different after they had a global shortage. Also briefly tried Thyroid S years ago but, again, no apparent significant impact, although this is the worst I've ever felt, hence going privately finally.
I just think all these years, levothyroxine has done nothing, liothyronine has done nothing and so it's almost like I've been put on 150 t4 and 36 t3 from scratch, with no gradual lead-up; like the medication is entirely new to my system (when I've been on high dose forn years). My ears are now ringing and I'm hot for the first time in years (I even struggled to get hot in 31 degrees), my heart rate seems up a little.
It maybe a day or two before these feelings of over medication pass :
How are your levels of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D - as these need to be maintained at optimal levels, for a strong core strength and good thyroid hormone conversion.
Thank you. I understand the lab results quite well, so wasn't looking for any particular guidance on those, only the impact of Armour, as I've never felt anything when taking medication before and this is quite significant. Ever tried Armour before. Attached for interest, but please note I already supplement the vitamins.
People with chronic thyroid conditions need to prioritise their health.
Consider...
Your new dose is providing 150mcg T4 and 36mcg T3
Your previous dose was 200mcg synthetic T4 and 30mcg T3
T3 has increased by 6mcg
You responded to the new dose
It may not be Armour per se that is the solution but one of it's constituent parts!
Perhaps you need to investigate both this and your adrenal function
No, since you ask, I haven't tried Armour I have a form of Thyroid Hormone Resistance and need high dose T3 to function....I do not tolerate replacement T4.
Please be kind to your body...it is telling you to slow down
Haha that last sentence made me laugh. Last night, my body was telling me to hoover at the same time as getting a 6yo and 3yo twins to bed. I was a woman possessed. My husband said, "what is IN that tablet?!?!"
You have high inflammation and your body under some stress, do you have any other health issues ?
Inflammation can also inflate ferritin levels so this result of 80 odd may not be true.
Inflammation can also compromise conversion as can any physiological stress ( emotional or physical )and also dieting, depression and ageing - so it's does become a bit complex but at least we can do something about the vitamins and minerals and eat clean, cooked from fresh nourishing meals.
Hello, thank you. I was originally diagnosed with an autoimmune connective tissue disorder, they gave me Hydroxychloroquine, but, after a year, nothing had changed so they abandoned that. I wondered if it was my thyroid all along and asked for retesting. Rheumatology has not really been involved since, except a recent re-referral to check there was nothing else there explaining why my thyroid medication had no impact. My husband had RAI and now takes levothyroxine very successfully, so I'm not on a mission against it. It's just never done anything. He feels every reduction and every tiny increase immediately. I've never felt anything, until today!
We eat really well, cook everything from scratch and my 3yo twins, 6yo and I are gf and df. Dr recommended AIP diet which I've done before and know how hard I found it. Again, it helped with my rib ache, but I was down to 800 calories a day at one point and never lost a gram. Not when I was eating normally, or extra healthily, not when I reduced to 1200, not when I was on AIP. Honestly, I've lost my 30s to this. 😭😭
I have a fairly stressful job, but 25 hours a week so as to do childcare as well. I volunteer as a Trustee for a smallish local schools Trust as well, which can be hard as we're taking on failing schools to improve them. That's unpaid and comes with its stresses. I set up a classical music concert series for babies and their families, not for profit. I love it, but unpaid and something else to think about!!
Liquid levothyroxine also had no impact save for seeming to give me awful stomach pain/gastritis/trapped wind.
I'm hopeful the Armour is the answer, given what seems to be a clear response to it for thebdirst time since 2016, perhaps I just need to get the right dose. I'm so hot!!! 🥵🥵😂😂
Yes, he had Graves, about 8 years ago. Had carbimazole for 2 years and then RAI about 6 years ago, when our son was a baby. He had to go away for weeks, so as not to expose him (and the dog!) to radiation.
Ah DHEA! Yes, that was very low but my NHS endocrinologist told me to buy it on Amazon. I learnt here, when I asked about sourcing it, as I couldn't find it, that that's illegal. I've heard nothing from GP or endo since and I've prompted them repeatedly. Cortisol only once, I think possibly 2018? That was with a previous endo who discharged me because I was pregnant, as he said he didn't deal with pregnant people. I saw no one for my twin pregnancy and ended up with gestational diabetes. A gp panicked when I think I was about 34 weeks (hard to remember but it was late) and increased my levo but too late. Gd not diagnosed until late either but medicated with metformin.
A new GP recently read my notes and said, "I apologise on behalf of the NHS, as I can see you've had no joined up care and nothing has been explained or followed up. I don't even understand your endocrinologist's letters."
Well, apologies for butting in, so let's hope this new GP does better by you as you would be hard pressed to find some one worse - surely !!
Just another thought - if the Armour doesn't resolve symptoms it's likely you'll need to consider T3 only -
The Armour contains 9mcg T3 + 38 mcg T4 - so if we find we need to build up to around 5/6 grains before your symptoms resolve it's likely some form of cellular resistance and it will likely be cheaper to buy T3 - working on the assumption that the average person needs around 50 T3 daily, just to function.
Thank you, I'll see how I go. The Armour is a little more than those doses, as my two tablets add up to around 150 (T4) : 36 (T3) a day. Keeping everything crossed!
Bit of an update, the doctor recommended I go down to half tablets and build up. I did that and was up to full dose within 2 days. And now I feel exactly the same as I've always felt. No impact at all. He's now suggested I take 3 grains in the morning and 2 in the evening but I still feel nothing at all. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME? 😭 I'm so despondent that nothing works, it does nothing at all.
I think I've even gained weight in the last two weeks.
There is nothing wrong with you - we just need to find out which thyroid hormone treatment works best for you :
As mentioned previously I doubt that you are able to utilise the T4 and so the logical option is likely to be T3 - Liothyronine only and since most people are needing around 50 T3 daily just to function you have never been on enough for it to work well for you.
So the next suggestion is 5 grains of Armour - so that is 45 T3 and 190 T4 ??
Have any of your symptoms been relieved ?
Conversion of T4 into T3 can be compromised by non optimal levels of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D inflammation, any physiological stress ( emotional or physical ) depression, dieting and ageing.
Is there anything there that needs further thought ?
What other medications are you taking and that may have an impact of thyroid hormone conversion ?
There are people on this forum who for one reason or another take T3 only - and at various doses so all is not lost, and there are other options to consider.
Paul Robinson writes extensively on treating with T3 only - think his books are available through the Thyroid UK website, who are the charity who support this forum thyroiduk.org
Thank you. I take supplements for all the key vitamins. The endo told me months ago that my DHEA was suppressed and needed supplementation but told me to buy it online (that turned out to be illegal) and I've heard nothing about it since, despite chasing twice.
I don't take anything else other than Cerazette, which I need for migraines.
My symptoms have never improved except in late pregnancy and for the first 3 months pp. I'm convinced the answer is there somewhere. I took metformin for the last few weeks of pregnancy and wondered if that had been the key. Or, simply my wild hormone levels were what I needed. Or it was the twins' thyroid hormones helping mine.... I'm sure something related to my pregnancy is the answer. I felt so good, lost weight (2st) and had no symptoms. They all came back within about 3 months after I had the twins.
Your adrenals work in tandem with your thyroid and if there has been long standing thyroid health issues i believe there will be knock on issues in these little glands.
Have you had any tests ?
I had a short synacthen test and told I was fine and then read it isn't sensitive enough and only really useful if suffering from Addison's Disease.
i have been supplementing an adrenal glandular for around 6 years since I read RAI also is taken up by the adrenals - and know it has made a difference to me :
Presumably you aren’t still on metaformin, it was just during pregnancy
Metaformin lowers TSH
Essential to regularly retest vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Most thyroid patients need to self test at least once a year and then self supplement vitamin D and B vitamins continuously to maintain OPTIMAL vitamin levels
That's right, only in pregnancy and stopped instantly they were born! They're 3 now. I didn't know that it reduced TSH. But neither did my doctors, I suspect.
Working Armour is strong. I had experimented with virtually every NDT including Thyroid S (which is to me very effective) and found Armour quite stimulating and VERY warming. It was insomnia inducing.
I had to do mere quarters at a time to start with. I then got another batch and it was completely ineffective. No difference whats-so-ever. Like taking sweeties. I decided it was too expensive to risk getting another batch like that again.
So the good news is the batch you have works.
But I think if your adrenals are even slightly stressed (and you've said your DHEA was low) then Armour is a bit overwhelming, particulary at first.
My doctor said not everyone tolerates it and he gives Erfa as an alternative.
hi Kitty1watson I was just wondering how you’re getting on? I just came across your post. I’m on 1/2 a grain NDT, and like you have no response to T4 or T3.
I saw a new endocrinologist in mid-September and he said all the right things. I was so hopeful. And then he went abroad for weeks without leaving the referral letter i needed to have the blood tests he wanted and so I'm no further forward!! But he's now done it and so I'm hoping to book the tests for next week. He's willing to try all sorts of things to help me and my gp is supportive. 🤞🏻🤞🏼
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