Advice needed please : Please could I have help... - Thyroid UK

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Advice needed please

Moop-kf profile image
21 Replies

Please could I have help with my latest blood test results (done first thing in the morning before levo dose). I think I need increase in levo (currently on 75mcg) as showing just out of range but dr says “tsh borderline but free thyroid levels normal and it is also possible this is being affected by low vitamin d levels so I wouldn’t suggest a change to your dose just check again in 3-6 months”.

I explained that my hypo symptoms seem to be getting worse. I’m still putting on weight despite exercising and not eating much (I’ve put on 2 stone since being diagnosed 2.5 years ago). My biggest concern is my brain fog which is awful at best and sometimes total confusion for moments, I feel like I have early onset dementia to describe it better. I find it really hard to comprehend things sometimes and forgetfulness is ridiculous. Lack of energy and motivation are with me daily, some days worse than others, this gets me down as I used to be very enthusiastic and motivated in everything I did, now I’m like a sloth!

I think I may be going through peri menopause so perhaps the symptoms are from that and not thyroid related.

I asked gp for a further B12 test (as recommended by Medichecks) but he refused and said the level is fine and just supplement with over the counter medication which I will do. Any recommendation for a decent brand would be helpful as I known it all supplements are equal! He is prescribing me vitamin d to get level up so perhaps that will help with symptoms.

Any help/guidance/reassurance from those more learned than I gratefully received 🙏

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Moop-kf
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21 Replies
SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

See/ book appointment with different GP

Vitamin D is seriously deficient

GP must prescribe LOADING dose vitamin D

That’s a total of 300,000iu of vitamin D over 6-8 weeks

Active B12 under 70 is too low and you need testing for Pernicious Anaemia before starting any B12 and vitamin B complex

Thyroid

TSH is far too high for someone on levothyroxine. You need immediate 25mcg dose increase in levothyroxine to 100mcg daily and retest levels again in 6-8 weeks

High thyroid antibodies confirms autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s

If you haven’t had coeliac blood test done yet, this also needs testing

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Thyroid

Getting dose increase

TSH should be under 2 as an absolute maximum when on levothyroxine

gponline.com/endocrinology-...

Replacement therapy with levothyroxine should be initiated in all patients to achieve a TSH level of 0.5-2.0pmol/L.

NHS England Liothyronine guidelines July 2019 clearly state on page 13 that TSH should be between 0.4-1.5 when OPTIMALLY treated with just Levothyroxine

Note that it says test should be in morning BEFORE taking levothyroxine

Also to test vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin

sps.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploa...

Graph showing median TSH in healthy population is 1-1.5

web.archive.org/web/2004060...

Aim is to bring a TSH under 2.5

UK guidance suggests aiming for a TSH of 0.5–2.5

gp-update.co.uk/SM4/Mutable...

Persevere - have all guidelines printed and be ready to quote them

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Use these guidelines on dose by weight to help get next dose increase

NICE guidelines on full replacement dose

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng145/...

1.3.6

Consider starting levothyroxine at a dosage of 1.6 micrograms per kilogram of body weight per day (rounded to the nearest 25 micrograms) for adults under 65 with primary hypothyroidism and no history of cardiovascular disease.

Also here

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/hypo...

gp-update.co.uk/Latest-Upda...

Traditionally we have tended to start patients on a low dose of levothyroxine and titrate it up over a period of months. RCT evidence suggests that for the majority of patients this is not necessary and may waste resources.

For patients aged >60y or with ischaemic heart disease, start levothyroxine at 25–50μg daily and titrate up every 3 to 6 weeks as tolerated.

For ALL other patients start at full replacement dose. For most this will equate to 1.6 μg/kg/day (approximately 100μg for a 60kg woman and 125μg for a 75kg man).

If you are starting treatment for subclinical hypothyroidism, this article advises starting at a dose close to the full treatment dose on the basis that it is difficult to assess symptom response unless a therapeutic dose has been trialled.

BMJ also clear on dose required

bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m41

Which brand of levothyroxine are you currently taking

Do you always get same brand levothyroxine at each prescription

Moop-kf profile image
Moop-kf in reply to SlowDragon

Really helpful SlowDragon, thank you so much! I have Teva, it’s usually this brand the pharmacy dish out.

Charlie-Farley profile image
Charlie-Farley in reply to Moop-kf

Sorry Moop-kf

Have to say your GP is an imbecile. How he can read results and not see you are under medicated and severely vitamin deficient is beyond me especially as you are presenting with the symptoms if being hypo.

Good advice from SlowDragon.

Moop-kf profile image
Moop-kf in reply to Charlie-Farley

Agreed 😅 I always feel fobbed off whenever I go to gp. I’ll try and get an appointment with a different one….I’ve been through a few at this surgery!

Charlie-Farley profile image
Charlie-Farley in reply to Moop-kf

I’ll deal with any at mine whether the feeling is mutual though?…..🤣🤣🤣

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Moop-kf

Teva brand upsets many people

Teva is only brand that makes 75mcg tablets

Have you ever had different brand?

Moving up to 100mcg there’s choice of different brands

Most easily available (and often most easily tolerated) are Mercury Pharma or Accord

Mercury Pharma make 25mcg, 50mcg and 100mcg tablets

Accord only make 50mcg and 100mcg tablets

Accord is also boxed as Almus via Boots, and Northstar 50mcg and 100mcg via Lloyds ....but Accord doesn’t make 25mcg tablets

beware 25mcg Northstar is Teva

List of different brands available in U.K.

thyroiduk.org/if-you-are-hy...

Posts that mention Teva

healthunlocked.com/search/p...

Teva poll

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Once you find a brand that suits you, best to make sure to only get that one at each prescription.

Watch out for brand change when dose is increased or at repeat prescription.

New guidelines for GP if you find it difficult/impossible to change brands

gov.uk/drug-safety-update/l...

If a patient reports persistent symptoms when switching between different levothyroxine tablet formulations, consider consistently prescribing a specific product known to be well tolerated by the patient. If symptoms or poor control of thyroid function persist (despite adhering to a specific product), consider prescribing levothyroxine in an oral solution formulation.

academic.oup.com/jcem/artic...

Physicians should: 1) alert patients that preparations may be switched at the pharmacy; 2) encourage patients to ask to remain on the same preparation at every pharmacy refill; and 3) make sure patients understand the need to have their TSH retested and the potential for dosing readjusted every time their LT4 preparation is switched (18).

Levothyroxine is an extremely fussy hormone and should always be taken on an empty stomach and then nothing apart from water for at least an hour after

Many people take Levothyroxine soon after waking, but it may be more convenient and perhaps more effective taken at bedtime

verywellhealth.com/best-tim...

No other medication or supplements at same as Levothyroxine, leave at least 2 hour gap.

Some like iron, calcium, magnesium, HRT, omeprazole or vitamin D should be four hours away

(Time gap doesn't apply to Vitamin D mouth spray)

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Has GP prescribed vitamin D …..if not they must do so

NHS Guidelines on dose vitamin D required

ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/use...

GP will often only prescribe to bring vitamin D levels to 50nmol. Some CCG areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol or even 80nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via NHS private testing service when supplementing

vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function.

There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7. One spray = 1000iu

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with hashimoto’s we frequently need higher dose than average

Vitamin D and thyroid disease

grassrootshealth.net/blog/t...

Vitamin D may prevent Autoimmune disease

newscientist.com/article/23...

Web links about taking important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

As per your previous post a year ago

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

You need coeliac blood test done BEFORE trialing absolutely strictly gluten free diet

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng20/c...

1.1 Recognition of coeliac disease

1.1.1 Offer serological testing for coeliac disease to:

people with any of the following:

persistent unexplained abdominal or gastrointestinal symptoms

faltering growth

prolonged fatigue

unexpected weight loss

severe or persistent mouth ulcers

unexplained iron, vitamin B12 or folate deficiency

type 1 diabetes, at diagnosis

autoimmune thyroid disease, at diagnosis

irritable bowel syndrome (in adults)

first‑degree relatives of people with coeliac disease.

SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471

HiYou seem quite new to this and I remember feeling just like you when I was under medicated. Please read the advice from SlowDragon. Very clever people here who will change you life………

Moop-kf profile image
Moop-kf in reply to SarahJane1471

Thanks SarahJane1471! I’m ashamed to say I’ve been diagnosed for 2.5 years but I’ve been burying my head in the sand until my symptoms are too invasive to ignore. Planning on trying to learn (and retain which is a problem) from the experts here and get myself feeling better.

Charlie-Farley profile image
Charlie-Farley in reply to Moop-kf

Absolutely Moop

Do get genned up - read my profile- I’ve mapped my journey to full replacement dose. Once you get a dose increase you will get a bit of a boost. I found a week or so after a dose increase my brain worked for a few few weeks until I needed another dose increase. I used this period when I felt better to read and absorb information and you may need further dose increases.

Welcome to the forum 😊👍

SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471 in reply to Charlie-Farley

👍

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Moop-kf

First step

See GP

Levothyroxine Prescription increase to 100mcg daily

Loading dose Prescription for Vitamin D

GP to organise coeliac blood test and testing for pernicious anaemia

Once you have had coeliac blood test, assuming coeliac test is negative, you will likely benefit from going absolutely strictly gluten free

If coeliac test is positive, you need to remain eating gluten until had endoscopy to confirm

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Lastly

You will need B12 and vitamin B complex daily supplements

But GP should test for Pernicious Anaemia BEFORE starting any B vitamins

If they still refuse to do testing…..then you will have to get started on supplements

supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid) may be beneficial.

This can help keep all B vitamins in balance and will help improve B12 levels too

Difference between folate and folic acid

chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...

Many Hashimoto’s patients have MTHFR gene variation and can have trouble processing folic acid.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

Thorne Basic B

Jarrow B Right

Both are recommended options that contains folate, but both are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule)

Available online

IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

Do you have Low B12 symptoms

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a B12 supplement as well as a B Complex (to balance all the B vitamins) initially for first 2-4 months, then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.

Choice of B12 supplements here

B12 sublingual lozenges

amazon.co.uk/Jarrow-Methylc...

cytoplan.co.uk/shop-by-prod...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Moop-kf profile image
Moop-kf in reply to SlowDragon

Thank you again, so helpful 🙏 I’ve got some reading and learning to do!

SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471

Well done SlowDragon 👏as always great detailed info. Moop-kf it seems like a lot of information to take in all at once but it will all eventually make sense to you. You really will have to be your own advocate when it comes to treatment as most GP s are pretty useless ( unless you are lucky).

Keep reading as much as you can to gain knowledge

Charlie-Farley profile image
Charlie-Farley in reply to SarahJane1471

Couldn’t agree more! 😊👍

tattybogle profile image
tattybogle

Your blood results and your GP's opinion of them are rather like a mechanic saying "all this car needs is a bit of polish"

Well yes, it does .. but it might be a good idea to deal with the more obvious 'Tree SH' issue first.

.
SarahJane1471 profile image
SarahJane1471 in reply to tattybogle

😂

Moop-kf profile image
Moop-kf in reply to tattybogle

Love the analogy 😂 GP is going to be ditched and I’ll find another that is willing to at least try and help. Armed with the info I’ve been given here I feel more empowered to get the meds I need to feel better. It’s so hard when the drs make you feel like you’re making things up and making a fuss. So very grateful for this forum and those that give their time to helping us 🥰

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