Hi All,
Just wondering if anyone has dealt with oestrogen dominance and hypothyroidism. I think some of my issues may be linked to this. I am going to try a supplement called myomin which I’ve been told is good for it- has anyone tried it?
Was wondering what, if any, symptom relief people got from trying to address it.
Thanks
A
The question is: WHAT is estrogen dominance??? It´s rarely diagnosed using out-of-range estradiol levels, but rather by calculating the estradiol/progesterone ratio. So, estradiol levels can be low but some doctors say you can still be estrogen dominant according to your E/P ratio. In other words, there is a certain ratio that needs to be maintained.My experience is that most doctors in Europe assume that all women over 40 need estrogen. I know there are some alternative doctors in the US who will prescribe progesterone only. Their reasoning is that we continue to make estrogen all our lives (from fat cells, estrogen-like ingredients in beauty products etc), whereas progesterone levels will drop drastically already in our mid 30s, so basically all wowen over 35 are estrogen dominant.
As far as I know, the treatment for estrogen dominance is to take bio-identical progesterone only (either prescription drug Utrogestan /Prometrium in the US, or creams available OTC). Some alternative practitioners also recommend adding DIM.
I have not been able to find any scientific articles on this subject. All I have found are websites and blogs by alternative doctors/naturopaths in the US who claim that excessive estrogen (=too much estrogen relative to progesterone) can cause a lot of symptoms such as weight gain, bloating, fluid retention, high blood pressure, depression, insomnia, hot flushes, night sweats, insulin resistance/diabetes 2, high cortisol, hypothyroidism, and low testosterone. But it is not clear what they mean by "hypothyroidism". True, oral estrogen is said to raise TBG levels (thyroid-binding globulin) so you may need to increase your thyroid meds, but it´s not clear if transdermal bio-identical estradiol (preferred by alternative docs) also does this.
Hi I just answered your previous post - I have recommended Lara Bridan s online blog all about womens hormones - you will learn a lot from her
PS. I should add that, according to some alternative doctors, you are only estrogen dominant from your mid 30s until your last period. After your periods stop, you become both progesterone and estrogen deficient. So, there is no consensus about what estrogen dominance really is. Some doctors prefer the term "progesterone deficiency" instead of "estrogen dominance" as they think that better says what it´s all about. Some doctors say that estrogen is needed to prevent osteoporosis aftermenopause. It´s not easy to know what to think. It´s likely that sex hormones are like thyroid hormones...that is, we are all different and not everyone needs the same hormone levels to feel fine.
Purplecat71,
In the thyroid-dysfunction-world oestrogen dominance (or progesterone deficiency if you prefer) can happen whether levels are high, middling or low as it simply refers to when estradiol levels (one type of oestrogen) exceeds that of progesterone. I agree the name can be misleading.
There are various reasons for this happening such as pregnancy, during the body’s natural decline of progesterone in peri-menopause, recirculating oestrogen due to detoxifying issues & constipation (common in hypothyroidism), external sources, ie excess of foods containing phytoestrogens (plant oestrogens), supplements/meds or xenoestrogens (environmental oestrogens) which are now ubiquitous. Even being overweight (a common hypo symptom) will increase oestrogen levels above that of progesterone by an enzyme called aromatase that makes & secretes oestrogen.
Because these are opposing hormones and oestradiol has strong immune modulating tendencies if that gap widens too much for loo long, unopposed oestrogens can cause our body’s difficulties, ie at best; bloating, tender boobs, weight gain, etc, and at worst; increasing hypo symptoms by influencing Hashi/Graves, and increasing our risk of certain cancers, fibroids, fibrocystic breast, ovarian cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, the list is endless.
Having higher levels of oestrogen is far more common than having higher levels of progesterone in the thyroid-dysfunction-world. I do not know of the statistics in people with healthy thyroid function but suspect the doctors you refer to are only acquainted with these people, or are not functional so fail to understand the connections between oestrogen and say thyroid hormone or raised cytokines, etc, or are just unfamiliar with the different types of oestrogens.
Well, that is exactly what I am saying above: "It´s rarely diagnosed using out-of-range estradiol levels, but rather by calculating the estradiol/progesterone ratio. So, estradiol levels can be low but some doctors say you can still be estrogen dominant according to your E/P ratio."
The doctors I am talking about are more knowledge than most doctors as they only use bio-identical hormones and only transdermal estrogen to spare the liver. It would seem the synthetic versions of these hormones have far more side effects than bio-identical hormones. But, if you have too much estrogen relative to progesterone, you still end up symptomatic even if you are on bio-identical hormones.I think many of the alternative doctors are basically anti-aging doctors (although they seem to now prefer the term "functional doctors") so they assume all women over a certain age need estrogen. My impression is that most doctors recommend both E and P, and a minority P only...although the latter may be the best option for many women.
Purplecat71,
That’s because many clinics/doctors are using ‘bio-identical’ as a marketing term but the treatments they are using are not the equivalent to the regulated treatments we get on prescription.
These offer a precise duplicate of hormones, ie oestrogens, progesterone, dehydroepiandrosterone, testosterone and even thyroid (levothyroxine) as synthesised by the ovary, adrenal and thyroid. NICE now refer to bio-identical hormones as 'body identical' to distinguish between the two.
the treatments they are using are not the equivalent to the regulated treatments we get on prescription.What are those? I was referring to prescription HRT such as Oestrogel, Lenzetto and Utrogestan as well as estrogen patches like Estradot.
PurpleCat71,
Oh that’s good we are talking about the same meds.
I misread as you quoted ‘bio-identical hormones and only transdermal estrogen’ which can refer to the unregulated (no prescription necessary). As already said it’s better to identify these as ‘body-identical’ to save misinterpretation.
You also say ‘Some doctors say that estrogen is needed to prevent osteoporosis after menopause. It´s not easy to know what to think.’ We do need oestrogen after menopause to help in the prevention of osteoporosis (together with adequate calcium, vit D, weight bearing exercises).
The oestrogen amount we need is small & usually sequestered by the adrenals when the ovaries stop working but long term hypo can run adrenals reserves low. Hence we often need HRT, with some benefiting from OTC and others needing the regulated such as the ones you have quoted.
Thinking oestrogen is always required is old school now and progesterone-only is prescribed when levels are deficient or/and oestrogen levels are high. There are quite a few members on progesterone only prescriptions.
.
How Does Oestrogen Affect Osteoporosis?
medicalnewstoday.com/articl...
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The Mechanisms of Oestrogen Regulation of Bone Resorption.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...
OK, I meant "only transdermal estrogen" as opposed to "oral estrogen" which many conventional doctors seem to prescribe. I don´t know enough about how OTC products work.
Compostella1
Apologies for taking over your thread, although hopefully you will find some of the discussion helpful 😊.
In answer to your question, no I haven’t used myomin but I found DIM helpful in eliminating high oestrogen levels under the guidance of a practitioner. I have detox problems which are notoriously common and it was suggested I kept supplementing DIM all the whilst I was taking O & P HRT but I didn’t due to cost.
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