No Longer on Medication

[dtate2016]

Not sure what happened....

About two years ago, NatureThroid began to (what I know now) start to be too much / overdosing. TSH was still climbing, but increasing dosage caused tremendous chest / heart pains. Not surprisingly Doctor said “it’s because we don’t know how much T3 and how much T4 is in each one of these pills. It’s like a mixed berry pie you don’t know what you’re getting.” Somehow I knew that wasn’t true after 30 years but what could I do? So we switched to levothyroxine. Not surprisingly same thing happened I simply could not increase the dose I felt worse!! chest pain’s were tightening and increasing blood pressure was going through the roof. TSH in the 40’s.

Began to look elsewhere for answers, the doctors as usual did not have the answers.

I found Dr. Christianson who had a whole new thyroid reset plan. He was about the third online doctor heal yourself kind of guy that I tried. You must look under every rock when you have a medical community that doesn’t understand autoimmune diseases. I don’t know why I’m explaining it’s my health I know when I feel good and when I don’t. (Forgive my frustration and anger)

Dr. Christianson talks about iodine stabilizing. Mind you not iodine removing. Everything has iodine in it almost every food - needless to say it’s impossible to get away from iodine altogether. I know for sure I also have the MFTHR genetic polymorphism, which slows any kind of detox - iodine became another toxin, building up over the years. (Have had the genetic testing). Dr. Christianson talked about how, back in the 50s and earlier people especially in the Midwest in the United States which is where I am, had chronic iodine deficiency’s. So the brilliant plan was put into place to add iodine salt and we’re all better now. Yes that worked really well for a good long while. And then people like commercial bread makers begin to use iodine as a preservative and as a dough conditioner (this is in Dr. Christianson’s research and in his book you won’t find this on the label of the food somehow they don’t have to list it as an ingredient). Dr. Christianson himself had a thyroid problem, a brilliant doctor and he figured it out with his own testing of many foods. So again he talks about iodine stabilizing how you can go on an iodine reduction diet much like they do before they’re going to do surgery like with Graves’ disease.

Oh my it worked! I have not had any thyroid medicine for over six months and I feel wonderful. I use kosher salt, not sea salt not Himalayan salt. I don’t eat egg yolks - lots of iodine in egg yolks. No dairy lots of iodine in dairy - most especially cheese which is a concentrated form of milk right? Almost afraid to have the TSH measured. For good measure I’m also treating the cannabinoid system with Hemp oil or CBD oil. I found out really quickly that you can overdo that also and had to back off of CBD oil but I still use it every once in a while I found out a little is better than a lot.

Anyway here I am at 64 after 35 years of levothyroxine NatureThroid, Armour, etc. only to find out that all this time perhaps, my poor sick thyroid was simply toxic with an overdose of iodine. I used iodize salt for at least half of those 30 years of levothyroxine etc.

dr. Christianson yes does want to sell his brand of vitamins etc. - but like Isabell Wentz, he gives away a lot of free information. In Fact he has a endorsement from Isabell Wentz. All I know is it works for me...AND it’s not a whole lot different than what we’ve been hearing for decades only we’ve been calling it gluten-free (dr. Christianson says it’s not the gluten for some of us but it’s the iodine - that we can eat homemade bread and even things made out of wheat as long as iodine wasn’t used as a preservative or a dough conditioner). Ezekiel Bread is one of the few commercial breads I can eat - and there’s a reason why it’s sold frozen! Since it is not full of preservatives and or iodine then it doesn’t have a very long shelf life maybe three days.

I haven’t been on here for a while because I’m feeling wonderful and I feel like I don’t have Hashimoto’s anymore. There’s another doctor out there with the school of thought that says a third of Hashimoto’s disease resolves itself - eventually. There’s others that say one form of auto immune disease increases the chances that you will acquire another and another. I believe that’s true too I believe they’re both true. I know I don’t take medicine I don’t have chest pains I don’t eat excessive iodine I watch iodine like a hawk, and I have energy. Dr. Christianson also says that we need to take a little bit of thyroid medicine as we heal or we won’t heal as fast nor can completely. So when I say I don’t take thyroid medicine it’s with the exception that I take just a very few crumbs I break the tablets down literally into tiny crumbs, and take a little every few days.

It’s not that I recommend this for everyone because I know it’s probably a dangerous path but I have no choice. It’s either die of the medicine or die of the disease - and for me a heart attack was coming very quickly I could feel it. What I am recommending is take a look at iodine consumption, take a look at Dr. Christianson‘s research.

[shaws]

Thanks for posting and am glad you've found a way to restore your health.

[dtate2016 in reply to shaws]

Thank you Shaws - I so appreciate how many times you’ve been there for me over the years all you guys but you especially have been very thoughtful and very consistently there -

[shaws in reply to dtate2016]

I am a happy bird again as I have had my T3 restored due to now having multiple autoimune conditions. It was a good Endo who confirmed it.

Also with lockdown, no-one could leave the UK in order to purchase T3.

[Lys23 in reply to shaws]

So did you just go off of it? That’s so scary!

[dtate2016 in reply to Lys23]

Not exactly - and yes it was scary. But I had no choice. The medicine gradually, over about two years time, gradually quit working - all of it, whether it was NatureThroid, levothyroxine, T3, all by itself and nothing worked anymore, nothing.

I could not increase the dosage and TSH was climbing.

Of course the doctors told me it was all in my head.

So I had to do the research and it took a long long time to find Dr. Christianson and as they say, I kissed a lot of toads along the way! Ha!

Still take a tiny bit of T3 and levothyroxine - crumbs. Dr. Christianson does not recommend, “just going off” medication.

[dtate2016 in reply to shaws]

Happy Days!

Thanks to you, I have braved going on T3 only, very reduced and mostly eliminated. Dr. Christianson’s advice is that we will have to continue to take “some” hormone in order to completely heal the iodine overdosed thyroid. A little T3 goes a long way and I mean the size of a small eraser or smaller.

I have learned so much here. You gave me the courage (along with others) to venture out into the T3 only world.

[Hidden]

This is very interesting info! I read something similar the other day on the website of a doctor in Germany who apparently is considered something of a guru in thyroid communities. He has also trained other doctors all over Europe who work the same way. He divides Hashimotos into Hashimotos 1 and Hashimotos 2, and patients falling into the latter category are what he calls oversensitive to iodine and should avoid it in order to make a full recovery.

I found this interesting as most doctors tend to treat all thyroid patients the same.

Sorry if you´ve already mentioned this, but have you been diagnosed with Hashimotos?

[dtate2016 in reply to Hidden]

Yes - by an endocrinologist over 30 years ago. And I’ve had countless blood tests on TSH thyroid antibodies T3 reverse T3 and on and on I’ve had so many blood tests I can’t even count them.

[dtate2016 in reply to Hidden]

See and isn’t this wonderful another doctor looking at iodine in the thyroid and why are we surprised we know the thyroid sucks up every scrap of iodine it can find. There are even doctors out there that recommend that we take iodine to heal a thyroid and maybe that’s true for some but for Hashimoto’s people / those that don’t eliminate excess iodine fast enough it’s a poison! For those of us with a MFTHR polymorphism it’s also been called a dirty gene - because it has to do with eliminating toxins and we just don’t do that very well. Stands to reason rather than constantly cleansing the liver that we reduce as many of the toxins as we can and let the liver catch up.

[Hidden in reply to dtate2016]

This makes it even more unbelievable that one of the few remaining OTC brands of NDT (Real Thyroid) contains seaweed, so basically iodine...they added it in order to be able to sell it as a "thyroid support supplement", but it could do a lot of damage to people who are sensitive to iodine. Surprisingly many doctors I have been to in the +20 y since I was diagnosed with Hashi´s have told me to take iodine supplements, without even knowing if I was iodine deficient. Many doctors seem to think: "Ah, hypothyroid so needs iodine" without even knowing that iodine deficiency is said to be quite rare in the industralized world.

Interestingly enough, in the past few months, I have been cutting back on carbs (still eat a lot of vegetables, a little fruit and berries) and increasing my protein and fat intake. I have been eating 2-3 eggs a day. During the same time, I have been experiencing strange symptoms; it´s like my body is rejecting the levothyroxine. I have had to cut back several times but still feel hyper. This despite free Ts well in range. I even had an ultrasound recently as one doctor suspected I had been misdiagnosed to begin with, but the exam showed "thyroid gland reduced in size consistent with advanced Hashimotos thyroiditis" (it was of normal size at the time of diagnosis). I would have thought that, as the disease progresses, I would need more thyroid hormone, not less. But since finding out that egg yolk contains a lot of iodine I started doing some research and that is how I found Dr. Rieger´s webpage. Since I grew up in a coastal town I also love all seafood...also rich in iodine. So I eat a lot of iodine-rich food. I have read that people with Hashi´s should not take iodine supplements without knowing for a fact they are iodine deficient, but I never considered that the food I eat could be problematic.

Have you had a thyroid ultrasound?

[dtate2016 in reply to Hidden]

Yes, a long time ago. Inconclusive.

Your reasoning is sound. And yes, much thyroid medicine contains iodine. Same with the eggs - I love eggs! But I have cut out all yolks - egg whites only. My body likewise rejected thyroid hormone - but only after 30 plus years (always on a fairly low dose of thyroid hormone) on like 50-75 mcg of Levo, 30 mg of Armour / NatureThyroid, etc. I tried glandulars, like bovine (mostly T3) thyroid - that too began to be rejected. I am in landlocked mid America - Salmon is one of my favorites. It’s expensive, and who knows what kind of Salmon? It says wild caught but who can be sure?

I’m right there with you, I know how I feel after eating things That are high in iodine (not good). But I didn’t until I learned that those of us who cannot tolerate excess iodine could be causing ourselves a problem. There was time I even experimented with Lugol’s iodine supplementation - because that was the prevailing thought at the time if you have a problem with thyroid, you are probably low on iodine. (It didn’t take me long even back then to know that iodine supplementation was not for me).

Yes, iodine deficiency is no longer the problem that it once was. What’s really annoying to me is that we think we’re getting all the information we need on food labels, but again as in the case with commercial bread they’re not required to list the “dough conditioners” - making commercial bread apparently they don’t knead the bread, but it is rapidly “conditioned” with iodine - you won’t see it on any bread label. I have seen sodium listed. And it’s surprisingly high. It has occurred to me that maybe the sodium and the iodine are considered one and the same as far as food labeling is concerned...who knows?

Thank you for sharing Dr. Rieger’s webpage. I’ll look him up. Is that the German Dr.?

[Hidden in reply to dtate2016]

Yes!

[helvella in reply to dtate2016]

What’s really annoying to me is that we think we’re getting all the information we need on food labels, but again as in the case with commercial bread they’re not required to list the “dough conditioners”

They are required to list the dough conditioners in the UK and the EU. For example, the list of ingredients for one widely sold UK loaf:

Wheat Flour (with added Calcium, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Water, Yeast, Soya Flour, Salt, Preservative: E282, Emulsifiers: E472e, E471, E481, Flour Treatment Agent: Ascorbic Acid

- making commercial bread apparently they don’t knead the bread, but it is rapidly “conditioned” with iodine –

Iodine is not used as a dough conditioner in the UK and the EU.

They don’t knead in the conventional way but they do use heavy duty high speed mixers. And they use much more yeast than traditional breads.

you won’t see it on any bread label. I have seen sodium listed. And it’s surprisingly high. It has occurred to me that maybe the sodium and the iodine are considered one and the same as far as food labeling is concerned...who knows?

I really don’t see how sodium and iodine could in any way and under any circumstances be considered the same. One is in Group 1 of the Periodic Table – alkali metals; Iodine is in Group 7 – halogens. Dramatically different in every way.

Sodium content is listed as in:

Each slice (50g) – Salt 0.45g - 8%

[dtate2016 in reply to helvella]

I am in the US. They do use iodine as dough conditioners here.

Thanks for the periodic table.

[helvella in reply to dtate2016]

I am well aware - but this is Thyroid UK and, while you are welcome, I felt the need to clarify for our UK members. Hence my very specifically stating "in the UK and the EU".

[bajmon in reply to dtate2016]

Hi, this is very interesting. I've been fed iodine salt whole life as I grew up not far from the Chernobyl. But only developed Thyroid issues 6 month ago. Well, 6 months ago it manifested itself with Subacute Thyroiditis which none was able to diagnose (except of me) for months and even suggested that I needed urgent thyroidectomy to exclude cancer. To hear this 2 months post your 40th was devastating. I have managed to convince 3rd doctor to give me steroids and after few days all nodules disappeared! I'm still recovering from this Thyroiditis and taking 50mcgr Levothyroxine. Od there a way to test the iodine levels your one's body? Our it is just a guessing game and trying!! I have been suffering from fatigue, mood swings, weight gain, hair loss, constant pains in hands and legs, sleeping problems, itchy skin for 10 years and always been told it's chronic fatigue which none was interested in. This though fall into thyroid issues.

[dtate2016 in reply to bajmon]

It is a bit of a guessing game.

Dr. Christianson recommends 30 days of iodine reduction - he calls it a “reset”. And he says the thyroid won’t heal unless we take at least some of the medication along with the iodine reduction. Highly recommend his book. It talks about foods that are high in iodine foods that he himself has tested and even foods that we can order at a restaurant which is a huge silent source of iodine.

He recommends kosher salt instead of iodized salt, and to be preferred over sea salt or Himalayan salt.

[dtate2016 in reply to Hidden]

What is the German Drs name?

[Hidden in reply to dtate2016]

Dr. Berndt Rieger.

[Lori2019 in reply to Hidden]

Do you know the name of the German doctor? Thanks!

[Hidden in reply to Lori2019]

Dr. Berndt Rieger.

[Lori2019 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks a lot! He is far from Brussels. 😊

[Hidden in reply to Lori2019]

Yes, unfortunately! And he is not in some big city either with direct flight connections. But what I like about his approach is that - unlike the Hertoghe doctors - he does not prescribe NDT/T3, HC, DHEA, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, pregnenolone and growth hormone to all patients. He also does not think everyone should be on thyroid hormone replacement. The ones with what he calles Hashimoto´s 2 (iodine sensitivity) should not be treated with levo or T3/NDT according to him as thyroid hormone contains too much iodine for them. Dr. Rieger has trained a lot of doctors (list of doctors on his webpage) but most of them seem to be in German-speaking countries.

[Elston]

Wow that was a long but fascinating read..I had my thyroid out because of a benine tumor.

Iv since from 04 been on thyroxine.

My health deteriorated after this.

I am now diagnosed with adrenal insufficiency and on steroids .

I do know there is something else a miss with my body because of how I feel ?

I do think it is related to food.

I get asthma if I eat wheat and my gut hurts.

I'm sure dairy hurts me too, but

I struggle to find foods to eat as I have to eat every two hrs or my blood sugars drop !!..

Wish I could feel not as tired and find the right foods like you as I too turn 60 in October and I feeling 60 ..

May I ask but were your tests expensive?

[BB001 in reply to Elston]

I too have extensive allergies and intolerances and have found these are worse when my fT3 is low. I also have low cortisol, which Paul Robinson paulrobinsonthyroid.com says is linked to low T3. I have found I am homozygous for the Dio1 genetic mutation which means I don't convert T4 to T3 very well.

Do you know your conversion ratio of T4 to T3? Calculation is fT3 ÷ fT4 from same blood draw and is only valid if on no T3 containing thyroid meds. If your result is below 0.23 then you are a poor converter according to Midgley 2015. Then look up thyroidpatients.ca article on this research 'how low is your T3' for an understandable view of it google.com/amp/s/thyroidpat...

[Celestialbeing]

I am glad you figured out what works for you. Hopefully you have helped others Thanks for sharing.

Just a word of caution for those of us that no longer have thyroid glands... you MUST consume thyroid hormone replacement because the body you CANNOT survive without THR!!!

[Hisdove]

This is confusing to me. For many years, I've read that we are low in iodine and that we should supplement with it.

[dtate2016 in reply to Hisdove]

See PurpleCat71 reply...and again, Dr Christisnson emphasizes Iodine BALANCE not elimination, yes we must have iodine. But no, new research is proving that not all of us are low in iodine. Those of us who eliminate toxins in a reduced way (like those of us with this MFTHR (genetic) polymorphism, can actually accumulate too much iodine, depending upon diet, soil composition, etc. And no, for years - even here on HealthUnlocked, those of us with Hashimoto’s have been cautioned about the advice to treat with iodine, that it could make Hashimotos worse.

The good news is (from where I sit) that there has been any “new research” at all! Do the homework - the testing (I have had genetic testing). Really look at your diet, not just recently but over the years. Did you use iodized salt? Lots of dairy? Lots of seafood? Kelp? Etc. Iodine balancing is a “reset” kind of thing, not a forever thing. And it is not for everyone. Do the homework.

[humanbean]

So, have you had your iodine levels measured? And how high was your level?

And how was your level tested?

Loading or non-loading?

Urine or blood or saliva?

[humanbean in reply to humanbean]

Another comment I have is about the word "balance".

Balance involves two things, one either side of the scale. So what is iodine being balanced with?

[dtate2016 in reply to humanbean]

Or it means not too much and not too little....

[humanbean in reply to dtate2016]

I've never seen anyone specifying what is too much and what is too little for iodine. I'm someone who needs numbers.

[dtate2016 in reply to humanbean]

I have no numbers for you. And even if I did I suspect it’s much like TSH T3 and T4 there’s a range in which each of us feels better. There’s also the school of thought to treat the person and not the numbers.

The purpose as I will restate and please hear me gently, is to make everyone aware that iodine overdose and or accumulation is coming into view (research wise), as a cause and a remedy for Hashimoto’s and again especially for those of us with the MFTHR polymorphism / dirty Gene, trouble with detoxing physiology. It’s something to consider it’s something to know exists - more light being shed on this plague of thyroid disorders that is affecting more and more of the population all the time particularly women. New research, keep your eyes and ears alert for it, another rock to look under!!

NOT A RECOMMENDATION - but knowledge sharing. Each of us have come to know many things about what works because we share and get very little knowledgeable help from the medical community. This is knowledge sharing. Many are sharing the anecdotal evidence that it works for them. That’s what we do here at HealthUnlocked, right? Such a wealth of information!

And I’ve come to know that Hashimoto’s is a moving target at best - in my 30 years of experience - that’s why we test right? Yes the numbers constantly change and we have to keep up with it right? Yes I wish I had numbers for you, I don’t. I do know that a 30 day iodine reduction diet (which is again much like the advice we have heard all along no gluten no dairy, etc.) has brought me to a healthier place and yes, being monitored by a doctor. As far as I know there probably is no human iodine test to be had, no blood numbers to be measured from the medical community. Why is that not surprising?

For me it’s not the gluten at all! I know because I’ve added the gluten back. As long as I stay away from commercial bread and dairy and iodize salt, I’m as right as rain. A personal experiment that I chose to risk.

I had never seen iodine balancing either. It’s new research. I’m happy to make others aware. In truth I want to shout it from the mountain tops! Dr. Christianson, the Dr. from Germany (see PurpleCat71 reply) Izabella Wentz, and many others are keeping up with the new research on iodine overdose, a modern day accident of processed foods consumption. Dr. Christiansen has measured the iodine in many different foods - (commercial bread for one - it had like 300 times the amount of daily iodine intake recommended). There is a number for you. Incidentally, home made bread does not have anywhere near that, because wheat flour contains very little iodine. The idea is....what if it’s not the gluten thats causing the thyroid antibody attack? What if it’s the iodine accumulation (years and years of iodine accumulation) that is?

That’s the new research. That’s what is working for me.

[Delgor in reply to dtate2016]

Many thanks for all your info which is of great interest to me as I had a thyroidectomy over 20 years ago and now have another multi nodular goitre and wondered whether iodine might be the cause of this. Currently on a gluten and dairy free diet plus other things. So glad to hear you are feeling so well !

[besttimes in reply to dtate2016]

And this could be the reason why the likes of Hashimoto's is now so prevalent in the USA, after decades of iodised salt use. It should have been helping (but where was the evidence to say that it would), but clearly wasn't.

[Hisdove]

Thanks for your reply. I'm going to have to investigate this.

[Marinaaa]

Hi! thanks for sharing this information, and so glad that you finally found out the solution and feel better.

I´m experimenting with a low iodine diet too. I also read all labels as most foods contain lots of salt which I assume is "ioidized salt".

However, I must say this is not easy at all. I read a lot on high iodine foods before starting, and cut out gluten at the same time. I bought this bread which was made with sea water and has no salt. As a result, in my next labs my tirogl AC dissappeared for the first time, and in the past I had noticed that whenever I was on a very good quality home-made bread (with gluten) they had decreased too, but not disappeared.

However, I changed to another sarrasin bread because I believed the sea water could be dangerous in terms of ioidine content, and in my following labs tiroglobulin AC has enormously increased to nearly 500, and I belive it it due to this second sarrasin bread I bought, I was told it had sea salt but in the label it says only "salt" so I believe it is iodized salt.

Im planning to get back to the old bread, the one with sea water, however this is really complicated, as I have been for months cutting back on seafood, seafish and a lot of things making a big effort only to find out that antibodies have increased...

It is my plan to try again without this bread.

Do you know about dairy alternatives? almond drink, oat drink, coconut milk and so on, they have "lithothinium calcareum" as a source of calcium. Do you think that is too much too? Thanks

[dtate2016 in reply to Marinaaa]

All great questions and avenues I myself have traveled. So glad to hear someone else use the logic that “lots of salt” probably = “iodized salt”. My thoughts exactly - and my experience in feeling worse when I somehow stray into those hidden sources of iodine.

Dairy alternatives and yes the “lithothinium calcareum” scare me. (If you can’t pronounce it....right?). Dr. Christianson recommends “Hemp Milk” and “Flax Milk”. Hemp milk sounded more exciting - but was absolutely awful (in my opinion - not much on dairy for starters), flax milk, on the other hand was not bad. Full of protein and linolenic acid (supports immune and heart health) I found it oddly refreshing. I tried the “Good Karma” brand and unsweetened.

I can eat bread / gluten IF (as you mentioned) it is closer to homemade. More and more bread makers here in the US are catering to the demand for the more chewey, simple, sometimes squished flat bread. Much preferred over the more styrofoam type white bread that is mostly about shipping well and looking pretty on the store shelves. I too have experienced the ill effects returning when I choose poorly on bread, give into seafood, etc . (Recently was invited to 3 different dinner parties - all serving shrimp / salmon!) One cannot insult the host, right? (That was my excuse).

The ill effects seem to subside in 3 or 4 days as I get back to strict adherence.

Thank you for sharing that reducing iodine is working for you too! We have some Nay- sayers who want to shoot down this exciting new research and anecdotal evidence. That there is iodine in almost all foods is not the issue, but that it is added to commercial foods for all sorts of non-health reasons is! Along with all the other toxins our bodies must deal with, knowing that overdose of iodine can be easily remedied and the healing effects realized relatively quickly is a breath of fresh air!

[Marinaaa in reply to dtate2016]

I read the calcium seed "lithoth..." contains up to 50mg of iodine per 250ml, which is a lot, but we need to eat calcium, dont we? What about goat kefir, do you take it sometimes?Lol I understand about the seafood, I love it so much!! but once in a while as long as you dont take it every day should be all right.

The thing with flax milk is that I believe that flax is very estrogenous and I have hyperestrogenia already so its not so good for me. What about almond milk, though it does not contain that much calcium...

[dtate2016 in reply to Marinaaa]

Goat kefir might be a great experiment. I have found that the occasional “feta cheese” crumble, now very popular in the so called “healthy” fast food Greek salads, does not seem to cause me any problems.

Beyond that there are lots of ways to get calcium other than milk. I know we’ve all been brought up to believe that milk is the best source of calcium. And almost all milk regardless of where it comes from if it comes from a mammal is estrogenic. Milk IS NOT the best source of calcium. (There are some studies that say much of the calcium in milk is not absorbed by the adult consumer)

Kale is a good source of calcium, as is other Green leafy vegetables. I have never been a milk drinker nor much of a dairy person and I have no calcium deficiencies - very long fingernails that grow naturally.... never ever ever ever ever been one to partake of milk as a beverage - don’t like cold cereal with milk etc. had a bone density test at age 60 which showed no deficiencies. Not a vegan nor vegetarian - I do eat my fair share of vegetables and there are days when that’s all I eat but it’s just because I’m hungry for that not because I’m eliminating meat.

Somewhat like iodine, there is calcium in almost everything we eat.

Still, your idea about goat Kiefer is worth trying!