I had my thyroid removed almost 8 years ago due to cancer. I have been on varying doses of levothyroxine as my levels remain unstable. I have gained 2 stone and still feel rubbish on a daily basis. The usual you are within your limits etc applies. A friend has just told me about Metavive I. I've tried doing research on this and although I can find the product and see what it is I can't find any information as to how it may help me or whether I can take it alongside my levo. I've searched the forums but cannot find an answer. Can anyone help please.
Thanks
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Jules2194
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Some people find Metavive helps, for others it doesn't.
It can work out expensive so before doing anything why not post your results (including reference ranges) on the forum for members to comment. We need to see the following :
TSH
FT4
FT3
Thyroid antibodies
And because we need optimal nutrient levels for thyroid hormone to work properly :
Vit D
B12
Folate
Ferritin
If your GP can't or won't do all these tests we have recommended private labs that do them either by fingerprick or venous blood draw.
Metavive is a glandular that can be taken along Levothyroxine. The effects can be powerful although the amount of hormones contained are too small to be measured and so remain unknown and would not supply enough to replace a standard Levothyroxine dose.
However, many people who can not tolerate T4 meds alone due to conversion issues find Metavive (or other thyroid glandulars) when supplemented alongside their Levothyroxine, contain just enough thyroid hormone to encourage improved T4-T3 conversion.
There is also a glandular for adrenal support called Adrenavive and if you have read "Your Thyroid & How To Keep It Healthy" you will know that Dr P was a huge advocate of glandulars and took them himself for years.
Any thyroid hormone replacement requires adequate amounts of iron and nutrients to work well, and if you have weight gain issues there's always the chance you are under-dosed. If you have any recent test results to post complete with ranges (numbers in brackets) members will comment.
If it were me, I would follow Seasidesusie's advice and get the tests listed done, then post results. You'll get good feedback and advice here.
I had most of my thyroid removed due to thyroid cancer and after adjusting various factors including improving vitamin levels I got back to good health. You might not need to add in other medications if you optimise other factors.
Do you always take the same levothyroxine or does the pharmacy swap the brand? I would definitely recommend sticking to one brand that suits you.
Are you taking any medicines besides levothyroxine? Do you have stomach or digestion issues? Some of these factors may affect levothyroxine absorption and interfere with effective utilisation.
Looking back at your previous information. If your results have been unstable after the year 2015 then it's likely there is a factor interfering with levothyroxine absorption and utilisation. If you can post results and answer the questions above as well as say how much levothyroxine you are currently taking then people might be able to help you work out where the problems lie.
Thank you everyone for your replies. I always seem to be ill and end up having my dose adjusted. I take the same brand always to date.
Following results from 4/3/21 Cortisone (energy) 544 (above 320) Folate - (iron) 9 (5-24), B12 479 (200-900) T4 15.5(10-20), T3 1(0.8-2.5)
26/2 TSH 1.12 (0.2-4.0)
I've just had my dose this week increased to 150mcg per day. I've talked to my consultant about T3 but he says the risks don't outweigh my weight problem!!! I've never weighed so much in my life and it's getting depressing!!
I also take Vit D propranalol and previously but started again this week with Citalopram for anxiety. I've also just started taking vitamin C, Zinc and selenium. I'm also taking naproxen painkiller which I've taken for the last month. I stopped the citalopram as I thought this was impacting my weight but it made no difference just exasperated my anxiety again.
I take my Levo first thing and wait at least an hour before eating and taking 1 naproxen and citalopram. I take the vitamins last thing at night.
My weight has slowly crept up since middle of 2019. I know lockdown hasn't helped but it's now out of hand. It doesn't matter what I don't eat, do eat, exercise or don't.
Your FT4 is 55% through range & FT3 just 11.76%. It is the FT3 that boosts the metabolism & brings us well being. Both levels needs elevating with a dose raise of Levo and TSH shows there is room. Maybe your latest raise will be enough to supply optimum levels.
As you haven’t got a thyroid gland I wouldn’t advise completely switching to Metavive but as said above it might well be enough to encourage better conversion of your Levo and raise that FT3 level. And as it can be bought OTC, it is more easily available than trying to obtain T3.
The other thing needed to make meds work is adequate iron and nutrients. Your VitB12 & ferritin are low and need supplementing, you are addressing Vit D but what about ferritin levels? Adequate thyroid hormone replacement that is working properly should lessen anxiety and ease aches and pains.
EDIT a typo - Your VitB12 & folate are low and need supplementing. 01.05.21
What is your vitamin D level? You need to know in order to know how much to supplement. As Slowdragon says, propranolol interferes with conversion of T4 to T3. T3 is the active hormone that you need to feel well and prevent hypothyroid symptoms. SSRIs can also interfere with thyroid hormone utilisation.
Low calcium levels which can be due to low vitamin D and magnesium or menopause or a number of other factors can cause anxiety so I think it's important not to assume this is due to thyroid hormone levels. Introducing other medications complicates getting your thyroid hormone levels balanced but you absolutely must not stop taking medicines abruptly and need advice on how to reduce them.
It can take a year or more to sort this kind of problem out as there are multiple factors involved. Have you haD a full iron panel done? If not then it could be a good idea to ask for it. Ferritin is on the lowish side but still in range, however, for a full picture of iron status you need a full iron panel that includes TIBC.
You will need to have iron levels tested to see if supplements are required because too much iron is toxic.
Did you take on board what SlowDragon said about the betablocker? Could be why FT3 is so low as well as being under medicated. However, as SlowDragon has said you must not just stop Propranalol. Heart issues can be a hypo symptom of under medication so maybe addressing thyroid hormone deficiencies will allow you to reduce it under the guidance of your GP.
Low mood, depression & anxiety are also symptoms of hypothyroidism.
Thyroid hormones should be tested six weeks after your dose change so post results complete with ranges (numbers in brackets) for members to comment.
Hi thank you. Yes. It was the citalopram I came off> I've been on propranalol on and off for years, but been taking it regularly for at least the past 2 years. You would expect the consultant to know what would interfere with the Levo. I know the Naproxen shouldn't be taken with Levo and I raised it with my GP and they said it was ok short term? I'm at a loss as what to do. I don't talk to my GP re thyroid as others have said they don't know how to treat someone without a thyroid and I'm on my 3rd endo now. He's a bit more open than the last 2 but still I'm not getting the results. I just don't know where to turn to be honest it's getting me down. I feel absolutely pants at the minute and feel like I'm going to die!
I agree the lack of our doctors knowledge is astounding and can make us feel very alone in having to deal with our health issues, and that is why the forum is so successfully supportive.
I don't have a thyroid gland either. I didn't lose it to cancer but blocking thyroid receptor antibodies that atrophied it & Hashi that wasn't diagnosed for many years. Finally a scan evidenced it as a shrivelled up pea.
What you want is to get Levothyroxine working well but unfortunately the iller we become through insufficient Levothyroxine dose raises the more intolerant our bodies become of Levothyroxine, so it ends up becoming more & more ineffective. Make sense?
That's why we pick up other conditions along the way that GP's just don't recognise as a result from inadequate thyroid hormone and so instead of a thyroid hormone med increase that could help us heal they provide prescriptions for beta blockers, antidepressants, NSAIDs, & often statins and PPI's, and which actually causes more harm than good in some instances.
Your cortisol level is ok so adrenals are working but probably stressed. I presume you don't have Hashi so addressing nutrient deficiencies and looking after stressed adrenals glands will be a positive step towards a road to recovery. I take large doses of Vitamin C & practice yoga,
Zinc & selenium are really good for encouraging conversion but you should probably be supplementing some VitB12, a B complex and folate. as well.
'Edit' is not working for me tonight so please note there was a typo above that indicated ferritin should be supplemented but it was meant to be folate (apologies). You need to ask your doctor to test ferritin to assess iron levels before supplementing as explained.
Post any results for members comments or posts for support. Everyone is really friendly 😊
I'm currently taking 40mg of propranolol. I take 2 regularly on a night and others up to 3 a day as and when required. I feel really bad at minute with my breathing as though I csnt get enough energy in and totally out of breath when walking a short distance which I've just out down to anxiety but I'm not sure why I'm anxious.
Propranolol seems to be the beta blocker with the most dramatic impact on thyroid physiology. So much so that it is used as a treatment for hyperthyroidism.
Propranolol and many of the other beta blockers can induce cellular hypothyroidism by inhibiting Deiodinase 1 and 2, increasing Deiodinase 3, and reducing the metabolism of reverse T3.
Studies have shown that decreases the conversion of T4 to T3. It is reduced levels of T3 in your cells that causes hypothyroid symptoms.
Propranolol increases reverse T3 (rT3). Possibly by increasing the conversion of T4 to rT3, and by reducing it’s metabolism and clearance from the body.
What is interesting is that T4 will often rise, and TSH does not appear to be influenced by Propranolol. So consider you are put on a beta blocker. After a period of time you start to have low thyroid symptoms; tired, fatigue, weight gain, edema, dry skin, etc. You see your primary who runs a TSH with fT4 reflex panel.
Since the beta blocker does not influence TSH it may look normal. If it is high and fT4 is run, it to will be normal or possibly high because beta blockers raise T4 levels.
You will be told you don’t have a thyroid problem because these two labs are normal. If however a comprehensive thyroid panel was run to include T3 and rT3, we would be able to see that the beta blocker is inducing a cellular hypothyroid state.
This is a case of Drug Induced Hypothyroidism. The beta blocker induces the hypothyroid state as well as hide the impact because limited thyroid panels are often performed.
Extremely important to only reduce propranolol VERY SLOWLY.
reducing by 5mg and stay at tat dose 4-6 weeks, before reducing by another 5mg etc
It will take several months to ween off
I was stuck on propranolol almost 20 years at only 4 x 10mg propranolol a day
Propranolol also tends to lower/affect magnesium and then vitamin D levels
Sorry that should say 1 propranolol at night!! Interesting reading. It wasn't long ago but D was tested and is OK. I take the spray like you. I don't take magnesium. It sounds like you've been through the mill!! I've suffered with panic attacks for years I do seem to have some raised stress at minute but not to the extent my anxiety is playing out so could be the combination of the additional propranolol citalopram and naproxen as this raised anxiety has probably only become worse since starting on the naproxen and weight gain increasing faster since taking the citalopram.
supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid) may be beneficial. This can help keep all B vitamins in balance and will help improve B12 levels too
Igennus Super B is good quality and cheap vitamin B complex. Contains folate. Full dose is two tablets per day. Many/most people may only need one tablet per day. Certainly only start on one per day (or even half tablet per day for first couple of weeks)
Or Thorne Basic B is another option that contain folate, but is large capsule
IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results
As your serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a B12 supplement as well as a B Complex (to balance all the B vitamins) initially for first 2-4 months, then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.
One doctor also prescribed propranolol and citalopram for me but it actually messed me up completely and took several years to sort out. Most GP's never see a case of thyroid cancer and don't know what is normal or what to do.
Ask for a copy of your pathology report to find out if you lost parathyroid glands. Apparently you can function with only one gland but in my non medical opinion, I think it's possible that loss of glands even if one is remaining may affect the way we utilise calcium. In addition, we've lost calcitonin and its not clear what effect this might have.
As there hasn't been enough research into these areas, I think the best we can do is ensure excellent vitamin D levels, a calcium rich diet and supporting minerals such as magnesium and K2-MK7.
Although weight gain is distressing, the more import thing is to protect muscle and bone with gentle weight bearing exercise and you need to feel well to be able to do exercise.
I, personally have gone gluten free which seems to have increased levothyroxine absorption and improved gut function. It may not help you but could be worth trialling for 6 months. It has to be strictly applied.
Osteoporosis can be caused by LOW Ft3 (as well as high Ft3)
Best thing for bone health is to be active. If you are inadequate medicated and too tired (and over weight) to exercise this is a “risk” to your bones....and your mental health too
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