Before I start I apologise about my source but I cant believe this.
So many thyroid patients who are absolutely desperate for T3 being denied it, so many of us having to test our own T3 because doctors / labs won’t and now this.
I know it is selfish to deny a possible cure to Covid patients but after many years of reading about thyroid patients being denied it now it’s being used as experimental treatment for covid. It is interesting though that low levels of T3 are involved
scientists discovered that patients suffering respiratory lung failure had low levels of T3 in their lungs
I wonder how they test for levels of T3 in a particular organ?
I assume they must have run a series of blood tests including T3 on the whole body. Not sure how they can tell it is specifically the lung tissue that is low in T3. A biopsy maybe but as we all know the thyroid affects every part of the body.
Has to be biopsy surely? T3 has to be present at a cellular level, not just in the blood stream?
But, I am far from being an expert as you know SS! LoL
I thought that the low T3 in the lungs was discovered during autopsy.
It looks like you’re right (I’ve been doing some Googling 
). There are apparently T3 receptors in the epithelial tissue that lines the alveoli (the smallest “tubes” in the lungs). Interesting, eh?
I got the low T3 in the lungs info from a post of Lynn Mynott's from a few days ago.
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
If T3 treatment does help to increase survival in people with Covid, it leads me to believe that people with thyroid disease, who have lower than normal levels of T3 because of the "T4 is all that's necessary" belief of doctors, might be more likely to die of severe Covid than people whose bodies produce "normal" amounts of T3.
One thing that might make a positive difference for the members of this forum is that we are urged to find out our level of vitamin D3 (and several other nutrients) and optimise it (them), so in that sense we might be better off than other parts of society.
These 'supposed to be experts' who had the gall to withdraw NDTs and T3, without notice and causing immense stress and worry amongst patients who were hypothyroid and the fact that both replacement hormones had relieved all of patients' miserable symptoms and saved their lives (NDT since 1892). No care or - that beautiful word - compassion shown whatsover. It goes to show that they have no idea of metabolism or what makes it run smoothly and painlessly. What heartless and thoughtless decisions. Why did they choose to be doctors/specialists?
Many patients had to search to all ends of the world through the internet desperately looking for alternatives and all those patients who didn't have access to the internet who cared about them?
The experts need to be taught a lesson or two i.e. removing their thyroid glands might be a starter.
The pity is that many doctors would prescribe if they were allowed to, even to give a trial to patients who didn't improve on levothyroxine. Or that levo gave them more clinical symptoms than before they were diagnosed.
Please BTA, reinstate NDT and liothyronine and permit hypo sufferers to have some release and relief from their disabling symptoms. Compassion!
I am with you! Everything in our bodies needs T3, to work properly, so I am not surprised to hear this, I am just thankful to see it in print!
I want to raise petitions, find a newspaper who will get behind us and get more of this stuff out into the population generally. People who can afford NDT are still able to buy it, (Sarah Vine of the Mail I have been told takes NDT) the poor so and sos like me/us who can't afford it have no chance. 20 years and seen no Endo or had anything prescribed but Levo.
I have complained to everyone and it's mother. Got 2 complaints now going on into GP's and finally last night heard that my GP is willing to consider referring me to a GP of my choice, because I told him that I am not going to be treated by an Endo who specialised in Diabetes!!!
What helped I think is the Devon's Health Board having to reduce T3 amounts which they can no longer afford to provide to their patients. And other stuff like the guide to GP's on prescribing T3 all of them came from this Forum. This made my GP see that outside his bubble, some GPs are actually treating low patients with T3!
(Do we have a way of putting all of these snippets together on here, so we can access them readily? I save mine to the Cloud but I don't find it easy to find them for some reason, maybe because I use a tablet and not a PC?)
My GP actually appears to have changed his mind. Until now he would not allow me to say T3 to him without holding up a crucifix and a bulb of garlic in front of me. He thought it was illegal and the devil's brew I am sure.
We need to complain more, we really do. There are enough of us to make them take notice.
I kept quiet for most of the last 20 years, but where did that get me? Still on levo and great damage done to my body I'm sure. 2 decades plus of being low T3 because of low conversion rates and my inability to use synthetic T4 properly can't help but to have caused damage can it?
I kept myself under the radar because I was told that the only to treat my hypothyroid was levo. My tests were picture perfect and no Endo would see me because of that. They just ignored me of course.
Meanwhile I suffered, we have all suffered.
Complain, complain, complain to your GPs, your Health Boards , MP's and everyone else you can think of. I am seriously thinking of suing my local Health Board because despite my health issues I was put down as depressed, neurotic, bone idle - eats cream cakes all day while watching tv, having problems understanding that calories in have to be less than calories out, ie unable to grasp simple common sense, you name it, it has been applied to me.
Frankly I am sick to death of it!
It's awful how sick and unwell patients are treated by some of the medical professionals when their health could be improved through 'options'. They are willing to give extra prescriptions for the symptoms except the necessary thyroid hormones that enables them to resolve their clinical symptoms and recover their health.
How do we explain to the companies who supply T3 to the NHS, that sourced elsewhere it can be supplied at such a low cost that may improve many patients' health who cannot and do not improve on levothyroxine alone.
The fact is that few GPs know how to restore patients health if they have hypothyroidism. We have had T3 and NDT withdrawn, both of which restored many people's health. My GP told me that T3 converts to T4!
Levothyroxine (T4) does work for many and they wont be on the web searching for information.
I cannot tolerate T4 at all. I was a bit more successful with trials of NDTs but T3 worked miraculously. That's not to say that it will work for every one but we should be able to trial NDTs (withdrawn through lies) despite its safety and success been proven since 1892. and also T3/T4. or T3 alone.
OMG Does it really? LoL
That is the first time I heard that one shaws!! I would be interested to see what my GP thought of that thought too! He is only just apparently open to talking about letting me see an Endo never mind what hormone is used to convert what hormone to what other hormone!
It is a bit like Russian dolls!
It is so scary trying to treat ourselves, never mind trying to work out what damage a GP might unwittingly do to us!!
I am trying Levo and T3 since September. I can't say I feel any better on it, though I think I am have fewer headaches but is that me trying to feel more positive.
My opinion was on Governments as well as Councils come to that when we think 🤔 of them sourcing anything at all they don't have any idea about what is a good price for anything at all. There were great gnashings of teeth this week in the Mail about how much money the government have paid and wasted on buying PPE in the early stages of lockdown, buying things which were not needed, at vastly inflated prices and of some businessmen (1 in particular was named and seems to have been known in the hallowed halls according to what I read) who are now making a great deal of money, increased the size of their workforce and bought larger premises etc etc.
They don't have a budget to work to as we lowly individuals have to restrict ourselves to, because they don't live in our world. They couldn't hazard a guess about a normal everyday cost of a loaf of bread, or anything like that.
I think theyare just so spoiled with having high incomes, no cheap plonk for them, or bread at under £1 a go either. They can't imagine it.
Upwards of £200 a throw for T3??? They ask for everything they get in my view.
Your right in that 'money talks' then we could select a doctor/specialist for any problem we may have/develop. There again we'd have to do a thorough check as they may be more interested in payments than in a recovering patient.
Dr Lowe (RIP) out of principal would never, ever, prescribe levothyroxine as he stated that when levo was first introduced that doctors (in USA I believe) were paid to prescribe levo instead of NDT.
We all know how dismissive so many endos are about the benefit of T3 to us "poor converters" [eye roll] - but I'm hoping this story and an undisputed "positive" use for T3 meds will help bring the price of lio down for us "hypochondriacs" who somehow manage to benefit from its "placebo effect"
You said it! Hooray that's all I can say. As this applies to Covid, we have a chance to jump onto the band wagon. Previously any mention of lowthyroid hormones has only been of interest to other hypo patients who can't use levo well.
The fact that we all need T3 and that low T3 in lung tissue has caused trouble for some Covid patients and is now being acknowledged openly is a big step forward. Those of us who have had to live with lowthyroid for years without T3 or NDT, have been disappearing slowly and quietly anyway.
How many PMs cite hypothyroid as a cause of, or contributing to, early death? I don't believe that low thyroid patients who can't convert, or who have not had access to the right medication, couldn't have had a longer and better life with the necessary medication.
That doesn't look right now, must be my brain fog! Hope you get the gesture of what I am trying to rant about? ;-(
I have read a letter to be given to the Coroner when the hypo person could no longer continue life. I doubt there would be any publication. It's very sad indeed.
And I have felt that way myself shaws. The NHS treats the symptoms of hypothyroid only, because it can't be bothered to treat the hypothyroid!! And as long as treatment isn't working there will always be something new, some other symptoms because if our bodies are not getting the hormones that they were made to use, everything else is degrading. I just wondered how many people who aren't being treated with the right meds/ supplements etc have hypothyroid put down as a cause of death. An odd one or two maybe?
My body is degrading by the day and I have been treated for all sorts before they would treat my hypothyroid seriously.
It is a disaster in these 'modern times' that the 'professionals' know much less than our doctors did before the blood tests/levo were introduced.
I think it was Big Pharma's way of increasing their profits as we used to be diagnosed through our clinical symptoms alone and given the first 'thyroid hormone replacements = (NDT) 'according to symptoms alone and slowly increased until we felt well again. No blood tests.
Nowadays, instead of doctors knowing all of the clinical symptoms and giving us a trial of NDT, the insistance is upon blood tests alone, so that means we may not be diagnosed according to symptoms nor be prescribed NDT (which they've withdrawn through misinformation).
I am also one for whom levothyroxine was a disaster and it was my husband who had to take the brunt of what was happening to me 'after' diagnosis when you'd expect an improvement at the very least.
It's only thanks to Thyroiduk that I improved and recovered (I stay recovered if I'm able to source as GPs were told to only presribe levo.
I think, on this forum, we've lost faith in those who are supposed to be 'educated' but find out that the majority on this forum know more than them as we actually suffer if not on the correct thyroid hormones (I couldn't improve on levo at all) and they have withdrawn the oldest and safest replacement through lies (i.e. NDT). After all - if since 1892 we recovered without blood tests at all and patients led a normal life, we seem to be well behind resolutions for many patients in this era.
Yes, I understand shows.
I finally got my medical records yesterday and I have been reading through them. Originally I was only able to get hold of, I think it was 6 of my blood test results and I have been hypo of over 20 years. I understand better now, the GP just put in my records that I had had a blood test and that no changes were necessary or whatever. There are an odd one or two in there which did include results and they all show that my FT4 was way over range and FT4 was the same. Rarely a mention of what my FT3 was doing. And yet as soon as my GP knew that I was taking an interest in my thyroid and was not happy to continue on Levo because I have never felt happy on it, he suddenly decide d in September to reduce my Levo because my FT4 was 17.9 (7.00 - 17.0) and I refused because I had told him before the test that I had bought T3 and was intending to use it. In my notes he says that I told him that I know better than him because I had been hypo for over 20 years. He has completely lost the point of my telling him that I have never felt well on levo for those 20 years, of how I have spent a lot of time, money and effort to try to find a better way which might suit me better. Anyone reading my notes would have no idea what I am trying to do for myself because the NHS will not treat me.
I think we are just a series of numbers in the main and that if we complain we are just being a nuisance.
What I can’t get my head round is the fact that the human body produces T1, T2, T3 and T4 and yet doctors will only replace T4 in people with defective thyroids.
If the body had been meant to function on T4 on.y then surely that is all it would have been designed to function on.
Well the NHS thinks we only need TSH and T4 certainly! It makes no sense and I can't understand it either.
I sincerely believe that those who are supposed to be 'professionals' rarely are, because they make statements that we, who're hypo, know fine well are wrong i.e. in their insistance that levo alone is fine. We know better than them as we have to take replacement hormones.
The majority seem to have no knowledge regarding the 'active' thyroid hormone T3 and withdrawing both the lifesavers through lies, i.e. NDTs and T3 which were introduced without blood tests in 1892 (NHS would save thousands of £££s) .
I have no idea why they became doctors because they are certainly not healers who use their knowledge as did Dr Skinner, Dr Peatfield and Dr Lowe and others who may have lost their livelihoods for doing as taught as students - before blood tests were introduced. A blood test result only states at that particular time its whereabouts.
The stress they've caused to patients who relied upon both (NDTs and T3) to have a full and symptom-free life they had the temerity to withdraw them without notice. They certainly are in the wrong profession - they're neither healers nor compassionate which I think is necessary. They should stop wasting patients' time and health.
I believe they are in the wrong 'trade' as they lack the necessary qualification (pity and sensitivity) to restore health to those who don't on levothyroxine.
I'm hoping this story and an undisputed "positive" use for T3 meds will help bring the price of lio down for us "hypochondriacs" who somehow manage to benefit from its "placebo effect"
When there is a new demand for a drug I would expect the price to go up, not down.
I was thinking more in terms of bulk-purchasing by the NHS ...
I really don’t think the NHS know the first thing about bulk purchasing. They have the power to do it yet they seem to pay way over the odds for everything they buy. It is just ridiculous.
Dead right, they don't appear to me to be interested in bulk buying either.
I think it is more who in your orbit you can help and in return they will help you, if you hope hard and long enough.
The government coffers are fair game for old boys and Masons! I still can't understand how we got into business with some Swiss company who are the ones who have upped the price of T3 to silly levels. You would think that the government had more sense wouldn't you?
We can buy it at much more affordable prices, why don't the government do the same. Tied in I assume, what pratts they are. This has been going on at least since 2016.
This has to be the ultimate in buying - would you buy from a company called Win Billion Investment Group? The original company was called Purple Surgical - that’s bad enough but the two combined meant disaster. The worst thing about it is that it’s our money - well that and the fact the country has missed out in the much needed PPE
Sadly I suspect you're right - but I'm always an optimist
If other countries can provide B12 tablets for around 2 or 3 euros a pack, why cannot the NHS?
OK I concede defeat. The NHS is a rubbish bloated monolith with the negotiating skills of a four year-old. And its "free at the point of delivery" mantra means that people have absolutely no incentive to take any personal responsibility for their health. We'd be far better off with the French system. But it's blasphemy even to suggest it.
The withdrawal of important and life-giving hormones should only be taken if there was something wrong with the product.
However, those that should know more than us (but don't) have withdrawn NDTs (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) and T3 due to the cost. I would say they are ignorant of the fact that these products allow us to recover our health (for many) and they've picked the wrong profession. They should mean doing their utmost to relieve symptoms by prescribing the best possible replacement that suits the patients.
I can't find the date that this came out Fruitandnutcase, can you tell me when it appeared please? I read the Mail and have electronic daily newspapers over the last 3 months or so, but I missed this!
Luckily they don't have the adverts thank God!
Lyn posted about this a couple of days ago. This thread contains more information about this study and some other research on T3/COVID. Spoiler alert: the tissue was examined during autopsy.
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Wouldn't it be wonderful if research on T3 in the context of the pandemic leads to a greater understanding and acceptance of its role in the human body? If it's found to be useful for prophylaxis or treatment, that could conceivably also focus attention on production and perhaps that would force some of the problems with cost in the UK to be scrutinised. We can dream...
Its in today's DM. I saw it online.
I only noticed it this morning.
I see what you mean about the 'source' you can hardly read it for the adverts can you! Cute kittens though.
My cute cat is sick and tired of not being able to go out into the garden at night for the horrendous bangs and flashes everywhere. He is terrified of going out in the dark. My mountain is a very much better place to be near Bonfire night. But we are in Stoke at the moment and it is horrendous, every night for 7 or 8 days now. I don't know where they find the money from because they are far from cheap are they?
Exactly - as I type this I can hear someone nearby having a fireworks or display. I’ve never ever liked them, even as a child and yes, it’s funny what people find money for.
We used to put our cats in the hot tank cupboard with a little radio. They still sensed the bangs though.
Our last cat was the total opposite, we got him from an animal shelter - he was a stray who had been in a road accident so no one had idea of his background - but he was totally fearless and we had the stop him going out. I always worried that someone would target him because he was so fearless. He also liked nothing better than going out on a nice wet day.
Aahhhhh Ted is a lovely boy who found me a few years ago. Why he was wandering about on my mountain I will never know, but he is the most lovely boy ever. Once I got him in he wouldn't go near a door or open window for 6 -9 months, but he seems to prefer to go outside for the loo more than using his litter tray these days. But these fireworks have really distressed him. I am staying with my brother in law in Stoke at the moment and he has a little jack Russell who has really gone through it, wanting to hide, can't bear to be left downstairs at night, so scratching and rattling doors, etc etc . It has been horrendous for them both. I want to go fetch the dog upstairs with me at night, but I have been told that I had better not do that! Men!!!!! LoL
Wasn’t he lucky you found him. He sounds lovely.
Do you think someone dumped him on your mountain? Or maybe he stowed away on a delivery van and got off when it stopped near where you live.
Our last cat was the only cat whose background we didn’t know and we used to spend ages wondering where he’d come from and what his past life had been like..
He never scratched furniture or stole food, he had perfect manners unlike a previous cat who could open the fridge until I reversed the food. He definitely preferred women but it was my son who was desperate for another cat so I gradually weaned him off me not my son.
They utterly adored each other, son used to take him into bed with him - I wouldn’t have had him in my bed but if my son didn’t mind then I wasn’t bothered. No one claimed him after he was injured and he was about 8 and hadn’t been neutered which seemed strange, he had the biggest paws ever - I used to regularly count his toes - he always looked as if he should had extra toes.
The vet once said ‘I’m not being funny but he has big bones’. He was also pretty chunky I used to hate when he got out of his basket and the vet would say, ‘hmm well put him on the scales’. He didn’t look obese, he was just large.
Poor pets, it must have been awful for them. This year has definitely been the worst ever around here - probably due to lock down. Difficult to know how you can get away from fireworks short of getting into the car and driving out to the middle of nowhere.
I think rather that either he had been dumped deliberately or his owner died. Another theory in the area which is that there are a lot of very similar black and white cats I the area. My nearest neighbour had one who was also a very big cat, much bigger than Prince Edward (Ted) but they were very much alike. Hers died earlier this year. So that seemed to infer that they all belonged too early particular farm maybe, or property. They are terrible where I live for not neutering their cats. And we have noticed a lot of cats very similar to Ted, but who knows?
So where exactly he came from I have no idea, he had been neutered and was thought to have been about 8 years old, so if the vet was right he must be around 12 now or so.
He had been loved, he is a lap cat and can purr for England and Wales. He never scratches furniture either but he does stick his claws into the carpet pretty often. He only ever eats a very little at a time and locks all the jelly off his food before eating the solids.
I had only had him for a few weeks, had been shopping and put it away, sat with a coffee sorting out the various receipts in my purse and noticed that Ted was wide awake and watching me intently, ears pricked and he was watching the receipts. I soon discovered that he just wanted me to roll the into a ball and will run around the kitchen like a mad thing playing tennis with them. He will bat them back and forth from mid air if I have enough time to play with him. The minute he hears me crumpling up paper he is there ready to play. So I think he had been loved before, the question is what happen to his owner?
It was the best day of my life when he turned up.
I can imagine how you feel like that. I just love his name Prince Edward. That’s terrific. He definitely sounds like he has been loved by someone in the past. We wondered if our Frank (aka Fat Frank) had come from a factory or something similar. He was a black and white cat too. He definitely wasn’t a lap cat, he did purr but would sit next to you rather than on you. He too would lick jelly off his food or if we brought him back French cat food when we’d been away, he used to be able to eat it all and still leave the peas or carrots or whatever sort of vegetable was in it. French cat food seems to include vegetables.
Anyway, he sounds lovely, he definitely landed on his feet when your u found each other 😊
There are some helpful diagrams contained in here thyroidpatients.ca/2020/02/...
which show the natural effect of critical illness on thyroid hormone levels. which is probably protective, not harmful.
You would expect someone who was at a certain point in a critical illness, or who had died from it, to have very low T3 levels , but this doesn't mean the low T3 was the problem, or that giving t3 would help.
If you did try giving T3 it would presumably be important to give it at the right stage.
But still , i'm glad they are least thinking about having a look at this... 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'
yes, IIRC it was this or another recent thread that referred to low T3 syndrome in this context. Thanks for bringing it up. (good reminder that I never got round to reading this :))
Agreed, the focus on this might have benefits beyond the context of COVID-19.
Tania SS and Paul Robinson have opined that the low T3 of NTIS is absolutely a problem. Those people who struggle to produce enough T3 during critical illness have a higher mortality risk.
I posted about Polar T3 Syndrome some time ago. The research papers on the subject reveal reduced cognitive and physical function in the subsection of over-wintering Antarctic workers whose thyroid function and peripheral deiodination cannot keep up with T3 needs in extreme conditions.
I agree . it's a worrying issue for those whose ability to get T3 normally is already compromised. Am watching this research with interest, hopefully they will realise they need to know what FT4/FT3 were BEFORE illness in order to see what happens, that would provide a mine of useful information , and they might notice how often TSH is useless.
Exactly so!
They might also notice how seldom T3 is tested - I never ever had it tested on the NHS.
They’ve been working on this for a while, by the looks of the research I found. Specifically to address Adult Respiratory Syndrome. The T3 is instilled in liquid form directly into the lungs.
There are T3 receptors in the lining of the lungs—who knew, eh? (Well, they did, obvs 😂).
Well everything in the body needs T3 so it had to be in the lungs as well as everywhere else.
It is great that they can get it to work by what, some sort of mist? Oh can't think what they call them, my grandson uses one! One of those machines that pump medication into their lungs when having a bad asthma attack. I want to say 'atomiser' but it isn't that. Gggggrrr I hate this,it will pop into my head in a moment t!
To T3 Or Not To T3
Any info on the pricing of T3
T3, I am begging you!
Thyroid UK T3 Survey
