What are your opinions on NDT, Natural Dessicated Thyroid?

[rjb112]

What are your opinions on taking NDT, Natural Dessicated Thyroid versus levothyroxine? I'm on levothyroxine only.......

Thanks.......

[Meanbeannyc]

I’m a very poor converter and I have no thyroid and it’s been very tough for me to come out of hypo on levo alone due to my low T3. I thought NDT was going to be magic for me. Literally within 3 days I thought I was dying. I couldn’t even make it the full 6 weeks, I actually switched back to a very low dose of levo and a low dose of cytomel that’s how bad I felt.

I much prefer levo and cytomel. But we are all different. The ratio is 4:1. That’s not for everyone.

[rjb112 in reply to Meanbeannyc]

Very good to know that. Thanks. Surprising. I wonder why that happened. And so quickly....within 3 days.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

Because I have no thyroid lol. Whatever I put in my mouth is what keeps me going that day.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

Some people can’t tolerate cytomel though and can tolerate NDT better when it comes to T3 meds. We’re all different.

[rjb112 in reply to Meanbeannyc]

"Some people can’t tolerate cytomel though and can tolerate NDT better when it comes to T3 meds. We’re all different."

Sounds like I would need to try NDT to see how I tolerate it and how I feel. I think Armour is a popular brand and so is Nature-Throid. I don't know anyone who has taken NDT.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

I am the opposite. NDT gave me the shakes/tremors, muscle weakness, all of the worst hyper symptoms. I prefer cytomel. I was actually trembling adding 1/4 grain to my levo, trying to replace my cytomel. I just prefer the latter. It’s easier for me to tolerate for some reason. I tried armour. We are all different.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

People like NDT because it has T3 in it and “better tolerated”, but cytomel is more my speed. Idk why, it just is.

[rjb112 in reply to Meanbeannyc]

That was the reason I'm somewhat interested in NDT, because it has T3 in it. And because it was the oldest form of treatment for hypothyroid. And very "natural."

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

That shit did not feel natural to me lol. I thought it was going to be my savior. I like cytomel and levo because it can be more finely tuned. Once you start going around the block with the meds, you’ll start realizing if you need more T4, more T3, etc.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

We are all different! Try it

What works for some does not work for another

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

Do you have a conversion issue? Are your labs wonky? Etc.

[rjb112 in reply to Meanbeannyc]

"Do you have a conversion issue? Are your labs wonky? Etc."

TSH 3.27 uIntUnt/mL (0.55 - 4.78)

FREE T-4 1.1 ng/dl (.67 - 1.52)

Free T-3 2.6 pg/mL (2.3-4.2)

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

FT4 low, TSH high. I’d increase levo and add T3. But that’s just me. What’s normal for you is not normal for me. Having your labs normal and you feeling normal are two different things. Play around with dosages and types of meds. You have 3 options. Levo, cytomel and NDT. I’m a noob at this. I Don’t know anything about thyroid. So don’t take my word. I can only tell you what I’ve learned from what I’ve done to my body lol. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. You may like higher T4, some may like higher T3. It’s all trial and error as to what WORKS FOR YOU.

[rjb112 in reply to Meanbeannyc]

"I’d increase levo and add T3.....Play around with dosages and types of meds. You have 3 options. Levo, cytomel and NDT"

Unfortunately my primary care doctor thinks my labs are just fine. And I might give her a heart attack if I asked for any form of T3, either from Cytomel or from NDT. I asked for an increase in dose of levothyroxine in the past year, and was turned down, partly because I have osteopenia and coronary artery disease. I don't think either of those justified turning down my request to increase my levothyroxine.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

You’re undermedicated on levo with those labs. TSH should be around / under 1. Get a new dr

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to rjb112]

rjb112

TSH 3.27 uIntUnt/mL (0.55 - 4.78)

FREE T-4 1.1 ng/dl (.67 - 1.52)

Free T-3 2.6 pg/mL (2.3-4.2)

The first thing you need to do is take more Levo, get that TSH down to 1 or below, then see where your FT4 and FT3 lies to see if you have a conversion problem. Then you will know if you need to try NDT or a combo of Levo and T3.

You also need optimal nutrient levels - Vit D, B12, Folate and Ferritin - before adding T3, and for thyroid hormone to work well.

NDT wasn't for me when I tried it, I couldn't get stable on it. Now, many years later, I take Levo and T3 and because I can tweak the ratio of T4:T3 by taking them separately it's better for me.

Also, NDT may be "natural" in that it contains pig's thyroid, it also contains synthetic fillers.

[rjb112 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks SeasideSusie.

"The first thing you need to do is take more Levo, get that TSH down to 1 or below"

You've convinced me to again request for an increase to my dose of Levo. I'm going to do that by written Secure Message before the weekend ends.

What do you suggest as "evidence" to convince my Primary Care MD to increase the dose, since she thinks a TSH of 3.27 is just fine, because it is within the reference range?

I'm going to push harder for an increase in dose this time. Just need some "evidence" or suggested line of reasoning to persuade her to increase the dose.

I just had my Vitamin D tested as 36 ng/mL, well within their reference range. I don't recall the reference range but less than 20 was deficiency

In the past year my blood folate was above the reference range, because I eat significant amounts of foliage daily.

B12 in the past year has been well over mid-range. I supplement B12 daily.

Have not had ferritin tested in past year but in the past month hemoglobin and hematocrit have been normal.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to rjb112]

rjb112

What do you suggest as "evidence" to convince my Primary Care MD to increase the dose, since she thinks a TSH of 3.27 is just fine, because it is within the reference range?

Please re-read my reply to you in this thread of yours about 3 weeks ago:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

You have the UK based evidence in a PM I sent you.

Then look further down the thread where you said:

I just found this statement by the American Thyroid Association:

"In most patients on thyroxine replacement, the goal TSH level is between 0.5 to 2.5 mU/L"

"This is your ammunition at the moment - your TSH is too high."

That's exactly how I'm going to approach it with my Primary Care Physician, based on the statement by the American Thyroid Association, which I don't think she can dismiss.

So you've already had all the evidence, did you present it to your PCP and ask for an increase back then as you said you were going to do?

I just had my Vitamin D tested as 36 ng/mL, well within their reference range. I don't recall the reference range but less than 20 was deficiency

The recommended level is 40-60ng/L according to the Vit D Society and Grassroots Health. If you want your level higher then you will have to self supplement as you don't fall into the deficiency category.

B12 in the past year has been well over mid-range. I supplement B12 daily.

If you are taking B12 you should also be taking a good quality bioavailable B Complex to balance all the B vitamins (of which there are 8).

Have not had ferritin tested in past year but in the past month hemoglobin and hematocrit have been normal.

Just because haemoglobin and haematocrit are in range doesn't rule out iron deficiency, you can have iron deficiency without anaemia and an iron panel is needed for that. We suggest all 4 nutrients are tested regularly, I check mine once a year but will do Vit D twice a year and because I tend to have low ferritin I check that a couple of times a year as well.

[rjb112 in reply to SeasideSusie]

"You have the UK based evidence in a PM I sent you."

How do I find and open PMs?

I don't recall ever seeing one, although i could be mistaken

[rjb112 in reply to rjb112]

OK, just found it

Thanks

[rjb112 in reply to rjb112]

I've found them all now, thanks very much.

[rjb112 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi SeasideSusie,

I just sent a Secure Message to my Primary Care MD requesting an increased dose of levothyroxine, and the justifications for requesting this.

Thanks.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to rjb112]

It taught me that I need FT4 high in range lol

[rayayb in reply to rjb112]

Hi. What dose did u start with.

My doughter takes less then 7 mg a day. And it good for her. U have at least start with small amount.

[Lora7again]

I have taken both Levothyroxine and Thyroid S in the past and I preferred the NDT. It does not suit everyone but it was used long before the artificial Levothyroxine was manufactured and people did well on it.

[rjb112 in reply to Lora7again]

Thanks Lora7again. That's good to know

[adin]

T3 Slow-release, maybe there would be another solution if you can get it, along with your levo.

[rjb112]

I emailed my Primary Care doctor requesting an increase in the dose of levothyroxine that I take. I expect to hear back from her in the next few days.

[Tanya-B]

I tried it and felt absolutely amazing for the first few weeks. Initially within an hour of taking it I had a surge of energy also a strange noise in my ears like a swishing noise. I didn’t put the noise down to the medication at first but after several days realised that’s what it was.

At one stage I felt so good and my mind was so clear I actually thought “ my God this is what it feels to be normal”

I did however have so much energy it was like being on speed. But after a month I went hypo was absolutely exhausted and the pain in my whole body was excruciating. I then decided to up my dose but again the swishing noise in my ears was very disconcerting and I felt like I was on speed. I got so much done though I even built a shed, it was amazing.

Unfortunately I was as high as a kite but then went hypo again. I was extremely worried that I wouldn’t be able to afford the cost long-term and also the accessibility. I was buying NDT from New Zealand and the cost with the postage was just too much.I also had the fear that how would I be able to maintain this as I got older and if I ended up in a nursing home what Earth would happened to me if I could no longer get it.

I am now back on levo and T3 and it is much easier to maintain. I still go from hyper to hypo and struggle to manage. But adding T3 has made a huge difference.

We are all different though and perhaps you may want to try it.

Good luck and all the very best

Tanya

[rjb112 in reply to Tanya-B]

Great story Tanya-B. Very interesting.

My first step is to try and get an increased dose of levothyroxine, because my TSH is too high and free T3 is too low. I already emailed my Primary Care doctor requesting that. At some point I am interested in exploring getting on some cytomel or NDT, to find out how I feel. But I've got to start with getting an increased dose of levothyroxine. If my Primary Care doctor turns down my request, I'm going to request a consultation with endocrinology.

[Tanya-B]

I hope your Endo is good. I resorted to private practice and now have a great endocrinologist.

I am currently waiting for surgury to have my thyroid removed.I did have a 7/8 removed 36 years ago but it has been regrown by 85%.

It does produce thyroxine but it is unstable so impossible to maintain a good level.

It has been delayed several times now due to Corona which is very frustrating. But make sure you keep up with all the vitamins advised here they have made a huge difference to my life.

Good luck and keep in touch

[rjb112]

Which of these is the reason they removed 7/8 of your thyroid?

Your doctor may recommend that you consider thyroid surgery for 4 main reasons:

You have a nodule that might be thyroid cancer.

You have a diagnosis of thyroid cancer.

You have a nodule or goiter that is causing local symptoms – compression of the trachea, difficulty swallowing or a visible or unsightly mass.

You have a nodule or goiter that is causing symptoms due to the production and release of excess thyroid hormone – either a toxic nodule, a toxic multinodular goiter or Graves’ disease.

[Tanya-B]

. After I had my first child 37 years agoI became so skinny and hyper it was very serious. I also suffered a heart attack. My eyes were horrific protruding and watering and my vision was affected.

I went to my Dr for over a year and he kept saying there was nothing wrong with me. It wasn’t until I had the heart attack that i was told I had Thyrotoxicosis. I had surgury but I was told they left an eighth of the thyroid hoping it might produce thyroxine naturally. . Back then we didn’t have computers so I didn’t really understand any of it.

I had the surgury and was put on levothyroxine and didn’t really give it much thought. I always felt ill but I was training as a nurse and running about after my little girl and when you are young you just get on with it.

About 12 years ago I told my Dr I had all the symptoms of being thyrotoxic he practically laughed in my face. I was so ill with breathing difficulties shaking weight loss all the classic symptoms. The Dr just wasn’t interested.

I suffered respiratory failure on a plane to France in 2015. The French Drs were amazing and they scanned me and told me the thyroid had grown back. I phoned my GP from France and he said the French didn’t know what they were talking about. It was a nightmare and I was totally confused.

I decided to go private and was told I had Graves’ disease. I didn’t have a clue what it was and was shocked that for over 35 years I had been so ill not knowing the cause. I then learned everything I could about the disease. I paid for another ultra sound and CT scan and demanded my GP listen to me and see the results. He was embarrassed but said he wasn’t a Endrochologist and GPS can’t know everything.

I joined various sites including this one and I am so thankful to hear other people’s experiences and amazing advice.

It’s been a hell of a journey but like so many others we have all been failed .

I am very apprehensive about having surgury again but I have been told it is the only option . This time they will take the whole thyroid. It will then be another journey to try and get my levels right.

I will keep you posted should it ever happen. More delays on the way.

[rjb112 in reply to Tanya-B]

Hi Tanya-B; What an amazing story. You have been through a lot. So glad that now you have answers. Wishing you the very best with your surgery.

I just heard from my Primary Care doctor a few minutes ago that she has approved my request to increase the dose of levothyroxine.

Yes, please follow up. Would love to know how you are doing.

My email address is: [e-mail] Robert

[Tanya-B in reply to rjb112]

That’s great news. I will stay in touch