An explanation of NDT (natural Dessicated Thyroid Hormones)

[shaws]

This is by Janie Bowthorpe of STTM (stopthethyroidmadness)

stopthethyroidmadness.com/m...

[greygoose]

And yet it made me so very, very ill! She annoys the hell out of me, suggesting that everyone should be on NDT. They shouldn't. It doesn't suit everyone. I was stupid enough to listen to a doctor like her, and lost about five years of my life trying all the different NDTs, in a hope that one might suit me - because he insisted that one had to! I've never been quite the same since.

[shaws Administrator in reply to greygoose]

It doesn't suit everyone of course but if you've not tried it, it deserves a trial I think and it's easier to source than T3 and there's various prices as well as manufacturers.

[greygoose in reply to shaws]

I agree, most things are worth the trial but, whilst you should give it a fair trial, I don't think you should waste too much time on it, if it's not making you better. Don't believe the hype, that's what I'm saying - and STTM is full of hype for this and that.

There is absolutely no proof that NDT contains T2, T1 and calcitonin. I think if it did, they would mention it on the bottle, because it would be a big thing. But, also, if it did, the quantities would be miniscule and of little consequence. That's just hype, brainwashing everyone into believing that it contains all the hormones. I don't know why Janie Bowthorpe wants everyone on NDT, but that seems to be what she's aiming for.

[shaws Administrator in reply to greygoose]

I think it's because she got well on it. Lorraine Cleaver, too, found it worked for her. So it is trial and error when levothyroxne doesn't work or makes you far worse than before being diagnosed - as it did to me. The quantities of T3/T2/T1 may be miniscule but it works for many and was successfully used for about 100 years.

[greygoose in reply to shaws]

Yes, I understand all that. I got relatively better on T3 only, but I don't go round insisting that everyone should be on T3 only.

And, I would suggest that the miniscule quantities of T2/T1/calcitonine, have less to do with it being successful than the somewhat larger quantities of T3. If there even are miniscule quantities of them - did they even survive the process of being made into a pill? They really should not be used as a selling point because there's no guarantee they're even there.

[shaws Administrator in reply to greygoose]

The Associations tell us that levothyroxine is the perfect and only hormone replacement we should use and we know, personally, that this isn't true for many.

Whatever we trial we are hopeful that we can turn the corner into good health regardless of amount of hormones it may or may not contain.

[greygoose in reply to shaws]

Well, obviously. I just object to the Janie Bowthorpe hype, that's all.

[jgelliss in reply to greygoose]

YAY!!!!! greygoose . You say it like it is . T3/NDT is pushed by some forums like a be all and unfortunately patients buy into it . Only to find out at first it feels great and soon after they feel awful and only to be told they need even higher doses . And there goes the big merry-go-round . Thyroids make more T4 and very little T3 . T3 is a very powerful short acting thyroid hormones . When over dosing with T3/NDT one may feel soon after feeling great , lethargic ,brain foggy , tired , estrogen dominant etc. I don't call this feeling great . I respect those that T3/NDT works great for them in higher doses . But most of us just DON'T . Patients that are new to thyroid replacement therapy come to forums and read the glamorous stories and the selling of this hormones and then beg Endo/Dr's for over dose of T3 and then crash . I say PLEASE do not push something that is good then more must be better when in fact it's not . BALANCE is very important . T4 has a tremendous value and impact in our lives . Just ask thyroid patients how they would feel if T4 was taken away from them and see their reaction . Nothing less then panic. Rightfully so .

Our brain runs off of T4 , hair , nails , skin and more . T3 has value to for thyroid patients but in very small doses . Granted some might need more than most of us .

I say respect yourself and trust yourself listen to your inner voice it doesn't fail you . Keep journaling your symptoms when it does not feel right then it's not . Be honest how you feel . Ultimately it's you who counts and not someone else who tells you how you are supposed to feel .

Wishing all a successful thyroid journey outcome .

[shaws Administrator in reply to jgelliss]

Some of us cannot get well on T4 - however long we take it. The Same with T3 or NDT. It is trial and error. I improved and recovered on T3 only. Scare stories can be made about thyroid hormones in general but what suits the person is the perfect thyroid hormone replacement.

[jgelliss in reply to shaws]

Granted shaws , that T3 does work for some patients . But where I respectfully disagree is where T3/NDT is pushed by some forums . And patients buy into it and only to come to feeling awful . I'm against pushing anything . Honesty Respect Balance is what's needed .

[shaws Administrator in reply to jgelliss]

I think it has become 'fashionable' in certain circles who are more interested in how their bodies look i.e. bodybuilders etc to source T3 and who don't have hypothyroidism. I should think that would harm them in the long run.

I think problems stem from the fact that some very sick people are restricted and not permitted options.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

Also scientific research has shown that many recover on a combination of T3/T4.

[jgelliss in reply to shaws]

Yes that's true . Balance is of the essence . There are those that might take advantage of a good thing and make it worse . I'm on a combination of both and I will certainly say there is definitely place for both . But that's what works for me .For others something else will work better .

I respect patients that feel that their life was given back to them on T3 only . And I'm very happy for them and respect them . What I don't appreciate the sales pitch that is used for T3/NDT if your not on it don't expect to feel well . And T4 is useless and worthless . It's not conducive for any thyroid patient that want's to feel optimal . It's not one cookie cutter or one size fits all . Respecting individuality and what works for one might not work for the other .

[greygoose in reply to jgelliss]

Ummm... no... that's not exactly what I'm saying. Brains don't 'run off' T4. T4 is a storage hormone, it doesn't do anything much. Brains need T3 just like every other cell in the body.

And as for T4, you can have my share! I can't get along with it at all. I'm on T3 only.

[jgelliss in reply to greygoose]

greygoose I respect that for you T3 is working great and I'm happy for you and others as well . For me and some others out there in thyroid land T4 is what works for our brain . T3 for us in larger doses feels like a cloud . Can't function think clearly nor concentrate .I would think our brains runs off of T4.

[greygoose in reply to jgelliss]

But you must know that the T4 is converted to T3. T3 is the active hormone, T4 doesn't do anything.

[jgelliss in reply to greygoose]

I can tell you that I tried both T3/NDT at different times of cause and It made me into someone I was not . I couldn't function . When my T3 ran out and T4 took over is when I regained my life back . You can not argue about this . And just like I experienced this so did and still do many others . T3/NDT is not for everyone needing thyroid hormones . It's a fact . The only reason I personally need a tiny bit of NDT is because I'm not a good converter . Those that are good converters don't need T3/NDT . And they feel perfectly fine .

[shaws Administrator in reply to jgelliss]

I don't disagree with you but we have to have options and most on this forum don't get well on levo only and recover with help/advice.

Many members o the forum forum are those who don't get well and are unaware that there are other possibilities they can try. Also quite a few do not get diagnosed because their TSH hasn't yet reached 10.

In other countries patients are diagnosed when TSH is 3+.

[jgelliss in reply to shaws]

I absolutely agree that when one needs to replace thyroid hormones both T3 and T4 need to be considered for optimal dosing within balance .

[amala57]

I wish we could get it here. 😢

[shaws Administrator in reply to amala57]

At one time that was all we were prescribed in the UK, until Big Pharma's promotions/incentives/persuasive language to prescribe T4 only worked and NDT is now not prescribed except sometimes by Private Doctors. Many on the forum source their own and are well. The Associations have now withdrawn T3 to the detriment of many people's good health and caused immense anxiety. Do the Authoirites care? - seems not.

[amala57]

I'm on a trial of t3 . Not feeling too good at the moment. Maybe those without a thyroid gland do better on NDT? America seems to be the place to get it. Much more expensive than t3 from Greece.

[shaws Administrator in reply to amala57]

Are you on T3 only and what dose? Did you try a combination of T4/T3 first? What was your dose of levothyroxine?

[amala57 in reply to shaws]

I was on 125mcg levo. I'm now on 50 mcg levo and 10mcg t3. I split the t3 into 2 doses . I have a blood test on 16th.

[amala57]

Sorry not 10 t3. 12.5 ( half a tablet split into 2 doses)

[shaws Administrator in reply to amala57]

You were on 125mcg levo and are now taking the equivalent 100mcg of levo:-

50 T4 plus 12.5 T3 (50mcg equvalent of T4)

so you've reduced your dose. There's no point in splitting 12.5 of T3 because the point is that our receptor cells have to be flooded with T3 so that the work of T3 begins and lasts between one to three days.

Also when splitting doses our stomach has to be empty so that we can absorb the hormones.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

web.archive.org/web/2010112...

Go to the dates July 12, 2010 and January 30, 2002on this link:-

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

I we are increasing any thyroid hormones, it's always done gradually.

[amala57 in reply to shaws]

Thanks Shaws that's really helpful. I realize that I am on a lower dose but wanted to start gradually. I have been taking My 2 doses on an empty stomach. I will start taking 50 levo with 12.5 t3 last thing at night. That will be easier for me! I'm still having gut problems and my ferritin has dropped very low. I am taking dessicated liver and hope that helps. I will post blood test results after 16th. Thanks so much. 😊

[shaws Administrator in reply to amala57]

It's always best to be gradual because if you feel it's a little too much it's easier to drop back to previus dose which may be your optimum.

[shaws Administrator in reply to amala57]

If you have gut problems, usually if hypo the problem can be due to low stomach acid and many of us take digestive enzymes with a meal particularly containing protein.

The symptoms of low acid and high acid are so similar that doctors usually prescribe antacids which may not be helpful if hypo.

drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/hypochl...

[amala57 in reply to shaws]

Yes I've explored this. I use ACV with mother before my meals. I get no gas or bloating just early morning "urgency" to go. I am being refered to gastro. But I am convinced this is due to my thyroid meds. It has all improved 75% since cutting g down levo. Best to get checked out though as ferritin so low. Haemoglobin normal. Thanks

[shaws Administrator in reply to amala57]

I am at a loss to know why doctors don't have the knowledge about the problems/symptoms that deficiences of vitamins/minerals can cause

[shaws Administrator in reply to amala57]

Stomach issues can be caused by low acid, rather than high and the symptoms are so similar doctors usually give us antacids.

drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/hypochl...