So, I've finally had blood tests done for iron and other things, and have attached the results. Of note ferritin is only 44, I know that this is low. I am vegetarian, Dr knows this and didn't seem to care. She has also marked all these tests as no further action required.
If someone can look at my ferritin results in conjunction with the other iron results and give me some suggestions based on this I'd be really grateful.
Also, my Serum c reactive protein level was above the high reference limit. Is this because I have an autoimmune disease (Hashimoto's)? Or is just because I'm obese (am piling the weight on, just can't seem to lose it)?
In case it is required with the results above, I'm on 150mcg of levo, and my last results (earlier this month) were TSH 0.01 (range 0.27-402), T4 21 (range 12-22) and T3 6.2 (range 3.1-6.8).
I still don't feel well at all, constantly exhausted, brain fog, weight gain, hair loss, muscle/joint pain. My other levels are all good (they were tested back in Feb and I'm still supplementing) so I think it is the low ferritin that is the problem. I've had a little bit of advice before, but my ferritin hasn't been tested since July last year (when it was 50).
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Having the "best" MTHFR genes happens to about 50% of the population in the world (lucky them). Variants of these genes which are "less good" happen to the other 50%. What it means is that your body is not as good at dealing with minerals and vitamins as it could be. In a healthy body for example, the free iron in your blood stream would be automatically moved into your ferritin [a measure of your iron stores] as necessary. A healthy body moves iron into ferritin as necessary, and takes iron from ferritin as necessary, and this will happen many, many, many times a day. But in someone with a methylation problem (because of less good MTHFR genes), this movement backwards and forwards sometimes doesn't work very well.
There are some complicated (and expensive) supplementation protocols online dealing with trying to get the methylation cycle working properly again.
But the simplest protocol, which is worth trying first, is just to supply the necessary methyl groups you need via supplementing with methylated vitamins.
This is simpler than it sounds. Have you got any results for Vitamin B12 and folate levels? Do you supplement with multivitamins or a B Complex? If you do, you need to take good quality ones with activated B vitamins. Cheaper ones don't have the activated B vitamins.
Do you supplement with folic acid either alone or in combination? You really shouldn't. It was invented in 1943. No human body had ever been exposed to folic acid before then. What you need instead is the kind of folate you find naturally in food.
You can supplement with folate if your dietary intake is inadequate. Look for products that contain the Metfolin brand, or list “5-methyltetrahydrofolate” or “5-MTHF” on the label. Avoid products that say “folic acid” on the label.
The above mentioned folate supplements can be found easily on Amazon or other supplements sites.
The other helpful supplement is vitamin B12. This vitamin comes in multiple forms :
1) cyanocobalamin - artificial, not found in nature - avoid
2) hydroxocobalamin - not produced by the human body, but it may be converted into the active types of B12 (types 3 and 4) by gut bacteria and may be used in injections for people with pernicious anaemia but rarely appears in tablets or other supplements. If the gut doesn't work well, I wonder how many people do this conversion well.
3) methylcobalamin - an active form of B12
4) adenosylcobalamin - an active type of B12
People should supplement B12 as type 3, or as a combination of types 3 and 4.
Optimal levels of folate are - top half of the range. If no top of range is given then aim for about 15 - 20 mcg/L.
Optimal levels of B12 are top of range up to about 1000ng/L. Going over the range is not dangerous - see this link :
Hopefully getting your methylation cycle working will improve the way your body makes use of minerals and vitamins generally, including your iron and ferritin.
With regard to losing weight iron is very important - see this thread and watch the video linked in it :
Thanks so much. I do supplement with the igennus Super B-complex. I don't take any folic acid. I also supplement with magnesium as per your question on the next post down, although I hadn't taken it for 2 days before the blood tests (I'm not always so good at remembering my supplements because I don't take them at the same time as my levo).
My last B12 and folate results are from Feb. B12 was 657 (range of 180-914). In march 2019 it was only 335, that was before I started supplements, so has come up a lot. Folate was 11.1 (range 3-20).
The only supplements I take are the Igennus Super B-complex, Better You Vitamin +K2 spray, 200mcg selenium and Magnesium Elemental 360 tablets (you can take between 1-3 tablets, I only take one as when i tried to up it I found it was having an effect on my bowels, but that was a while ago so could try upping it again).
I'm also strictly gluten free (went GF on 25th April) and am vegetarian.
Sorry to reply to an old post of mine, but you were so helpful. I've been supplementing with 5-MTHF since you suggested it (so around a month ago). Unfortunately I've not had any improvement with my symptoms. Would you say a month is long enough for any improvement to show?
I clicked on your link for the more complicated protocol, but after reading a few lines it blew my poor brain (the fog is very much still a problem), so if that's something you think I might benefit from I'll have to get my husband to have a read!
I'm sorry that you haven't had any improvement in symptoms. Unfortunately I can't think of much else to tell you that might help. (Please remember that I'm not a doctor!) All I can do is give you some links and hope something strikes a chord given what you know about your own symptoms, your own test results and what you know about your own diet.
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I read on one of your other posts that you are vegetarian. It is possible to eat a vegetarian diet which is also low carb or ketogenic. If this interests you you could find some suitable meal plans for vegetarians on this site and it will have the correct mix of carbs, fat and protein, and the fats won't include unhealthy ones :
Many of the meal plans include meat or fish but there are some vegetarian ones to be found. Just do a search for the word "vegetarian".
I'm not terribly good at sticking to any diet, from dietdoctor or anywhere else, so my weight hasn't actually changed, but I have found that I get reduced brain fog by eating lower carb with more natural fats and protein.
Be aware that if you do decide to follow a keto or low carb diet it can take a while to get some benefit from it, and you should do what you can to treat any symptoms of keto flu :
I notice from your results in the first post in this thread that your cortisol isn't good. I'm assuming that it is a first thing in the morning result. If it is then your adrenals are struggling. The optimal level for cortisol at 9am is top of the range i.e. 537 with the range you've been given, but your result is only 295.
You could try taking an adrenal cocktail, initially first thing in the morning, but depending on how you feel you could take one at any time of the day. You could also experiment with sipping one over 30 - 60 minutes or downing it all in one go to see if it makes a difference.
The man produces podcasts which are free to listen to, but I find the length of them so daunting they put me off, but you might be interested. It's a dreadful site to navigate though.
Regarding your CRP - I think this might be a red flag that something somewhere is inflamed or not functioning well. Unfortunately tracking down what and where the problem is can be difficult, but you would have a better idea of your own symptoms and where things might be going wrong.
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Sorry, I can't think of anything more to tell you.
Thank you, I appreciate the reply. You might not be a Dr, but you seem to be very knowledgeable! Do you have a science background, or is it all just research you've done over the years?
I've actually followed a low carb diet for around the last 4-5 years. It used to work brilliantly for me, but around a year ago it just seemed to stop. I didn't put weight on, just stopped losing, and as soon as I came off (which I did fairly often as we had quite a few holidays) I piled weight on which I then couldn't shift. I'm sure I've read something on the forum about this being a common problem, but can't remember the reasons why. However, I am going to try it again starting next week, as my husband did really well on it, and he has over indulged a little with lockdown, so we're both going to try. Even if just a bit of my weight comes off it will be an achievement with how much I've put on. It's a bit more tricky not eating meat or fish when low carbing, but my husband is the cook in the house and perfected some great veggie low carb meals. We weren't strict keto, but did aim for under 20g of carbs a day.
In relation to my adrenals, I'll take a look at the links you've provided (will probably have to do it a few times before it sinks in!) but yes, my cortisol results were from 8am in the morning and fasting from bedtime the night before.
I was a bit worried about the CRP levels, but the Dr hasn't questioned it at all. Do decent endocrinologists (I know these can be very hard to find!) tend to look at these things like CRP, cortisol etc or do they purely just consider thyroid and if you're lucky the more common vitamin deficiencies.
I do wonder if I might have something like CFS as well with how awful I feel. I know that a lot of the symptoms overlap with being hypothyroid, and as there is no test for it it's difficult to know. I'm tired all the time, and the periods of complete exhaustion are less than they were, but still happening. It happens more if I go out and do something, or even if I just see a friend and try being sociable for a couple of hours. I met a friend for lunch last week and was just shattered afterwards, I think it was having to concentrate on having a conversation and listening.
The pain I'm having has affected my mobility so much, I basically can't leave the house without using a walking stick and even that isn't helping enough so have just ordered a wheelchair. The shortest amount of walking or even standing leaves me in pain. I would like to apply for a blue badge, but not sure that I have the "evidence" that they require, nor do I think I could get it as things are so difficult with GPs right now with it all being phone appointments, and referrals to anywhere are pretty much not happening unless its an emergency.
I'm so tempted to try the T3 medication that I bought in Greece last year. I know that's probably just a reaction to feeling so crap and being totally fed up, but there's just that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that it's possible it might help and right now I would try anything that would help me.
Sorry for the self indulgent moaning post. Things are just getting to me a little bit I think, it's been so long since I've felt "well" and I feel a bit at the end of my tether with it all. I massively appreciate your detailed reply and willingness to try and help.
I was a bit worried about the CRP levels, but the Dr hasn't questioned it at all. Do decent endocrinologists (I know these can be very hard to find!) tend to look at these things like CRP, cortisol etc or do they purely just consider thyroid and if you're lucky the more common vitamin deficiencies.
I watched a program a year or two ago presented by Chris Van Tulleken who wanted to stop giving people drugs of all kinds.
He tested people's CRP before deciding whether they needed antibiotics. I have no idea if this is considered a valid way of treating people. The first test he was seen doing was for a woman with a chest infection. Her CRP was 50 and she got prescribed antibiotics.
It was the first time I had realised that CRP might be a good test for people with an acute infection, but a poor one for people with chronic conditions. The fact that your CRP is over the range tells you that something is not right in your body. My own CRP has never been higher than about 2.5, but I am sure I have chronically inflamed guts.
I suspect (but don't know for certain) that CRP will not remain high if the health problem involved in a high level is chronic rather than acute, and this is why doctors ignore CRP for most of us. This doesn't help you, sorry, but it might explain why your doctor is not interested.
I do wonder if I might have something like CFS
Not something I know anything about, but personally I would resist a diagnosis of ME/CFS with every fibre of my being. Once that is on your medical records getting treatment for anything at all becomes practically impossible for the majority of sufferers. Sufferers are all assumed to be mentally ill. There is a possibility that people developing long term symptoms following Covid-19 might actually be the miracle that ME/CFS sufferers have been waiting for. The idea that all the sufferers have become mentally ill over the course of a few weeks, and given that a lot of medical staff have developed problems may force the powers-that-be to actually research the condition.
I'm so tempted to try the T3 medication that I bought in Greece last year.
I'm not clear on what is stopping you?
Based on the thyroid results from your first post you would be best to reduce your Levo by, say, 25mcg for a week then start adding T3 at 1/4 tablet. Increase the T3 by 1/4 tablet every couple of weeks and test every few weeks. greygoose and SeasideSusie are better at the nitty-gritty of switching from Levo to T4 and T3 than me. I never remember the details.
Another possibility is that you might do better on NDT rather than Levo and T3.
The reason I haven't taken the T3 before is that when I've asked on threads of mine before (I tend to start a thread after every blood test!) then it's always been suggested that with my results I didn't need it. I don't 'appear' to have a problem with conversion, so most people have suggested increasing my levo. However, I've now come to a halt with that on 150mcg as GP won't increase any more because TSH went under range (a long typed letter with various medical articles and facts wouldn't change her mind). I think that's another reason why I'm now seriously considering the T3 medication.
Interesting what you say about CFS, I'll definitely steer clear of mentioning that to the Dr I think!
The only other time I've knowingly had high CRP levels is when I had sepsis following my bladder surgery. That was stupidly high levels though. Unfortunately due to the surgery I've had I can be prone to infections that easily turn into sepsis, luckily I've 'only' suffered with it twice!
Not that I'm aware of. It is another of those things that people are forced into sourcing themselves. Choices of NDT have reduced tremendously in the last few years.
Several of them have been reformulated and in the process have reduced in quality.
Some have been taken off the market.
The price has risen dramatically due to a virus attacking Chinese pigs which has dramatically reduced the number of pigs available for any purpose.
There is a possibility that people could do okay with bovine NDT. As far as I know it is still available.
But I haven't bought NDT for years so I can't help with up-to-date info on the subject.
Another reply to an old thread of mine, but didn't want to type all the info again! Also hoping for the benefit of humanbean knowledge!
I've been taking 5-MTHF tablets since you recommended trying them, so around 3 months ago. I've also added in some straight iron tablets, but that was only around 2 weeks ago. I had a blood test last week, not for thyroid but at the request of my urologist (I have them yearly due to my bladder reconstruction surgery). Anyway, my B12 has gone through the roof, and my folate has almost doubled. Now have no idea which supplements I should keep taking (do I keep on with the Igennus Super b-complex for example?
My B12 result was 1021 (range of 180-914). Previous result in Feb was 627!!
Folate was 19.9 (range of 3-20). Previous result in 11.1 in Feb.
The only other thing that has changed since I posted this is that in the middle of August I dropped from 150mcg levo to 125mcg of levo. A week after that I started on quarter of a 25 tablet of T3, and have been upping it every 2 weeks by 1/4 of a tablet. I'm now on a full tablet (taken in 2 half doses morning and evening) alongside my levo. Am going to wait 6 weeks then do a thyroid blood test via medichecks or similar to see where I'm at.
I don't really feel any better than I did. However, the Dr has diagnosed me as pre-menopausal due to having 2 periods a month since July and almost permanently sore breasts. Reading the symptoms of that there are a lot that are the same as being hypothyroid, so I'm even more confused as to where I'm at!!
Do you supplement with magnesium? If you don't you really should. It has numerous benefits.
Unfortunately the testing of magnesium levels is not reliable. The body needs magnesium everywhere in the body, but it gets tested in blood. The body prioritises having magnesium in the bloodstream. If magnesium levels drop in blood the body steals it from other cells to move into the blood. So people may have perfectly good levels of magnesium in the blood but be deficient everywhere else.
The body excretes excess magnesium in the urine via the kidneys. If your kidneys function reasonably well then you should be able to supplement magnesium safely even if you don't know your magnesium status.
Some links on the subject of magnesium supplements :
Personally I supplement magnesium in the form of magnesium citrate powder which I put in water and drink just before bed because the mild laxative effect is useful for me, and magnesium makes me mildly relaxed. But which you choose depends on your personal health problems and which results are most important to you.
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