very low tsh and high ft3 on ndt: hi everyone. i... - Thyroid UK

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very low tsh and high ft3 on ndt

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Hidden

hi everyone. i started wp thyroid almost 2 months ago. i started on half a grain for 7 days. then i went to 1 grain for almost 1 month. then 2 grains for 2 weeks

i thought i would wait to do my blood test when i started feeling even a little better. but that did not happen. i felt almost no improvement, so i thought i would order a home blood test and i was quite shocked

my blood after being on WP thyroid for a total of 1 month 2 weeks as said above:

TSH - 0.021 (ref range: 0.27 - 4.2)

Free T3 - 8.92 (ref range: 3.1-6.8)

Free T4 - 18.7(ref range: 12 - 22)

i have started a different ndt as i felt nothing on wp thyroid. if this is "T3 pooling" like they say on sttm, i cant understand why. I increased the dose very slow, I eat very healthy and sleep well, with low stress levels through out the day.

Is it possible WP just didnt agree with me therefore this new NDT im on might work , or is it usually underlying issues causing it?

thank you

26 Replies
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i started wp thyroid almost 2 months ago. i started on half a grain for 7 days. then i went to 1 grain for almost 1 month. then 2 grains for 2 weeks

Sorry, but I do not call that 'slowly'. With NDT one increases by 1/4 grain only, every two weeks. At one grain, one should hold for six weeks, and retest. Then continue 1/4 every two weeks again. You've probably upset your system by increasing too quickly, and you've certainly tested too soon. So, if I were you, I'd ignore those results and sit it out for the whole six weeks and then retest.

Do you have Hashi's?

How long a gap did you leave between your last dose of NDT and the blood draw?

There's no such thing as 'pooling', that is an STTM invention. The half-life of T3 in the blood is 23 hours, it doesn't have time to pool. :)

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

i did my test first thing in the morning just about. before my tablets. so about 24hrs was my last dose.

ok thanks for that, i did not know pooling was made up by them. i can definitely increase by 1/2 grain increments, but i cant do 1/4 due to my tablets being 1/2 grain and i wouldnt want to cut them as i think it might not be very accurate for me . i am slightly heavier so perhaps i can get away with half a grain increments

i would of wanted to switch ndt anyway as WP was too expensive for me. i have been on this new one for 3 days so far at 1 grain. do you think adding half a grain on every 2 weeks would be ok? i do not have hashimotos

thank you for that. i never would of thought this would of been too quick. my fault. i knew 1 grain increments may of been too much. it was either 1 grain increments or half grain increments, i got impatient due to feeling quite terrible

if what you say about t3 pooling is true, then im glad ..... as what they suggest you do to fix it is where it starts getting overly complicated

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

i did my test first thing in the morning just about. before my tablets. so about 24hrs was my last dose.

That's too long for NDT. It should be 8 to 12 hours. So, what you've got there is a false 'low' FT3, it's actually higher than that.

i can definitely increase by 1/2 grain increments, but i cant do 1/4 due to my tablets being 1/2 grain and i wouldnt want to cut them as i think it might not be very accurate for me

Well, plenty of people do do it. And, the difference, if any, would be so slight that it won't matter that much.

i am slightly heavier so perhaps i can get away with half a grain increments

Doesn't necessarily follow. You'd be better off with 1/4 grain.

do you think adding half a grain on every 2 weeks would be ok?

No, that's too fast.

i got impatient due to feeling quite terrible

More haste less speed, as the old saying goes.

if what you say about t3 pooling is true, then im glad ..... as what they suggest you do to fix it is where it starts getting overly complicated

It would be! lol

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Hidden

I have never taken WP, but I understand it´s one of the brands with very few fillers (only two, I think). Most other brands contain more fillers, like cellulose, which are known to interfere with absorption. So, if WP is not working for you, I´m not sure a brand with more fillers would be better for you...I think you should follow Greygoose´s advice and see if you notice a difference.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Hidden

you're right it doesn't have many fillers but i was a little off put by the amount of people saying they couldn't get optimal not only on wp but other prescription ndts where they couldn't before

it's just way more affordable to buy these tablets though so i really hope i can get optimal on these. mine has some fillers, but i dont think they are really bad. especially compared to thyroid-s or something like that

these are the ingredients in mine

Natural Desiccated Thyroid Powder (porcine)

Microcrystalline Cellulose

Dicalcium Phosphate

Magnesium Stearate

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Hidden

Are you sure you are on WP? I looked it up, and it contains: inulin, medium chain triglycerides and lactose (no cellulose or magnesium stearate).

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Hidden

sorry, i was on WP at the time of the blood test but i have since switched to another ndt

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

just re-read your post and i can see you said stay at 1 grain for 6 weeks. yeah i didn't do that originally.

would i be ok to stay at 1 grain for 6 weeks with the tablets im on now, or should i stop all tablets for awhile to let my body get to base line and let the previous excess of hormone get out of my body? like i say. when i did that blood test i was on WP, after doing the blood test i switched to 1 grain of thai ndt (down from 2 grains of wp)

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

No, you don't need to stop all tablets - not recommended, anyway. Just stay one what you're taking now for a good six to eight weeks, and retest. In that time, things should have sorted themselves out. :)

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

thank you so much for your help. i will stay at 1 grain for 6 weeks and then go up in half grain increments from there(slowly), and doing a blood test before going past 1 grain. that sounds like the right way to do it :)

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

I still say that 1/4 grain increments is the way to do it. Your poor body has been through enough.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

i might see if i can find a good pill cutter to cut my tablets in half :)

shaws
shawsAdministrator in reply to Hidden

There are a number of good pill cutters. Mine even does quarters well. I don't mind if there's a tiny difference in each quarter.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to shaws

yeah, i have got one ordered now. yea i dont think it matters if its theres a small difference to be honest. its just better than increasing by a full half grain each time in my case

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

If my memory serves me right, I think the STTM is claiming that high cortisol levels will cause T3 to "pool" in the blood rather than enter the cells...not sure if that´s physiologically possible, but that´s the claim.

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

Yes, well, they claim all sorts of things! I certainly wouldn't take their word as gospel. High cortisol may well impede the T3 from getting into the cells - although there are other things that can do that - but T3 still doesn't 'pool'. It's there and then it's gone. It has a half-life of 23 hours in the blood. That means that if you took 10 mcg at 8 o'clock this morning, by 8 o'clock tomorrow morning, there would be 5 mcg left, minus what got into the cells. What doesn't get into the cells is slowly excreted, it doesn't hang around. And, in any case, what would be the significance of that if it did?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

According to the TSH, you can more or less "poisoined" by either pooling T3 or high rT3 levels...they provide guides on how to "flush it out"...I no longer give much credence to what I read there. They are completely fanatic about NDT being the only acceptable treatment option, they claim that if you are not doing great on it you must be doing something wrong, and then they use T3 pooling among other things to explain why NDT is not currently working for you...although you´ll do great on it once you´ve cleared your system of whatever it is that´s preventing NDT from working optimally.

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

It all sounds a bit like magical thinking, doesn't it. A bit voodooish. It's not a site I ever visit anymore.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

Yes, but then the STTM is all about the Magic of NDT...to be defended at all cost. Every other treatment option is only second best according to them.

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

Yup. And, they don't tolerate anyone who disagrees with them! Got no time for them, myself.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

Well, when I was first diagnosed, and struggled on levo only while doctors kept telling me "everything was fine and not related to my thyroid", I did find some comfort following the STTM...but, after a while, I started seeing a pattern...and now, a few years later, I get this "sect-like" feeling...it´s a "one size fits all" solution, and everyone who won´t agree with them is more or less branded a traitor...

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

That's exactly it, yes. Fortunately, the first forum I found after diagnosis, was Mary Shomon's. A much better class of information, there.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to greygoose

i thought sttm was good at first and some of their info is ok to be fair but im realizing its actually more like a cult to me than anything else

greygoose
greygoose in reply to Hidden

Yes, it is. I thought that, too.

SlowDragon
SlowDragonAdministrator

Welcome to the forum

Do you have Hashimoto’s?

Have you had vitamin levels tested?

On levothyroxine, T3 or NDT we need good vitamin levels

Were you on levothyroxine before changing to NDT

If so, how much

do you have test results from BEFORE starting on NDT?

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Ask GP to test vitamin levels

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

If/when also on T3, or NDT make sure to take last third or half of daily dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test

Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after being on constant unchanging dose

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin

medichecks.com/products/thy...

Medichecks often have special offers, if order on Thursdays

Thriva Thyroid plus vitamins

thriva.co/tests/thyroid-test

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes vitamins

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

shaws
shawsAdministrator

Blood tests were introduced for levothyroxine alone.

We never had blood tests when we were prescribed NDT (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) which was the very original thyroid hormone replacement made from animals' thyroid glands and therefore more conducive to the human body rather than synthetic hormones.

Due to the fact that blood tests were introduced along with levothyroxine (T4) only, the blood test cannot correlate when we take NDT as that contains T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin. We increase slowly until we felt well and had relief of clinical symptoms.

drlowe.com/thyroidscience/c...

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