Vitamin K found in some cheeses could help fight Covid-19, study suggests

[helvella]

PLEASE - do not take this as any form of advice or guidance. I am posting it as a matter of interest, very largely due to the many discussions about vitamins K1 and K2 over the years right here.

Vitamin K found in some cheeses could help fight Covid-19, study suggests

Scientists in Netherlands explore possible link between deficiency and Covid-19 deaths

Patients who have died or been admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 have been found to be deficient in a vitamin found in spinach, eggs, and hard and blue cheeses, raising hopes that dietary change might be one part of the answer to combating the disease.

Rest of article accessible here - please do read it all:

theguardian.com/science/202...

[jimh111]

Interesting but no surprise it comes from a country that sells cheese! We have just had the correction to a study that claimed benefits for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m21... .

I have concern that journals are now publishing papers that would fail peer review in normal circumstances. It may be done out of eagerness to find a cure or perhaps less successful journals see a chance to gain publicity.

This is a general comment and not meant to criticise the vitamin K study which may be useful.

[TSH110 in reply to jimh111]

About 5 times as much cheese as the UK but nothing anywhere as good as a Cheshire cheese! We should start upping our production if the K2 is not a hoax based on spurious data from a suspect American data analysis company.

[helvella]

Aged Gouda isn't blue!

[amala57]

Thanks for posting this. Really interesting. I take k2 with my vit d3 supplement every day. D3 is also meant to be protective against flu etc.

BAME in northern hemisphere are often low in D3. I wonder if they are also low in vit k?

So much we don t know!

[Thyb in reply to amala57]

Can you tell me the name/product of K2 you take please and where to buy it from. Thank you

[amala57 in reply to Thyb]

Hi I take " Doctors Best" Vitamin K2 With MK7. I buy it from Amazon.

[Thyb in reply to amala57]

Thank you much appreciated

[TSH110 in reply to Thyb]

I use the BetterYou vit D3/K2 spray you just blast inside your mouth on the cheek - very easy.

[Thyb in reply to TSH110]

Thank you for info. I have a Vegaveo K2 +D3 spray but can't use it because gives me sores in my mouth (i have allergies)...It contains VIT D3 As Lichen, and K2 from natto and preservatives. I can take InvitaD3 from GP but won't give me enough as supposedly 'sufficient' but i'm nowhere near sufficient (at the low end) of their 'sufficient' and he looks at me dumbfounded when I say i need K2

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Thyb]

NHS will only prescribe to treat deficiencies

[Thyb in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes I know but they won't check Vit K but we all know we need it for D3 to be absorbed/go to bones etc

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Thyb]

But you can’t expect NHS to prescribe

[Thyb in reply to SlowDragon]

But I didn't say I expected NHS TO PRESCRIBE DID I? I said they won't check Vit K (i.e. blood test)!!

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Thyb]

I don’t think you can even get tested privately

[Thyb in reply to SlowDragon]

If nobody can test VitK e.g. Blue Horizon, Medichecks how can anybody know how much they really need. A guessing game as too much would have negative consequences just as too little would. In my opinion for Vit K2 supplement 75-100ug is sufficient from my research. I also have Selenium, Igennus Super B Complex, probio7, actimel, Better you magnesium spray (absorbs better with Hashimoto's), Acerola powder, InvitaD3 25000 iu ampoules, Nu U Nutrition Vit D3, Vegavero K2 +D3 spray. I think turkey, spinach, eggs, cheese, sourdough bread, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes (fresh and tinned) peas (frozen birdseye) are nutritious and delicious. I didn't have problems until I started taking levo 8 1/2 years ago

[Thyb in reply to SlowDragon]

P.S. My Sister was diagnosed Hypothyroid 26 years ago and apart from on occasion switching from hypo to hyper she leads an active 'normal life' albeit she is not interested in researching anything. She just either takes 125mcg or 100mcg as to how she feels (simply says her body tells her when she's gone hyper) 70 years old....who really knows. Individual differences. No 2 are the same..Her motto everything in moderation....lucky lass But, although no 'special diet eats healthy' e.g. potatoes asparagus seabass is one favourite, but then a curry, fish n chips on a Friday, red wine, lots of fresh produce - chicken, veg, fish, has allotment so grows own veg etc etc

[TSH110 in reply to Thyb]

I have one a bit like that! I drew the short straw there....

[wellness1 in reply to SlowDragon]

Medichecks has a Vitamin K test. Pricey, though.

medichecks.com/products/vit...

Thyb

[TSH110 in reply to Thyb]

Oh dear that sounds awful. I used to get hideous mouth ulcers all the time but since I got treated for hypothyroidism they disappeared - it was a massive relief

[shaws]

Thanks for posting and very interesting.

[Mostew]

Very interesting . Thank you. Diet deficiency is greatly overlooked by lots of medics etc

[humanbean]

I am not impressed that the writer(s) couldn't be more precise in their usage of the terms vitamin K, vitamin K1 and vitamin K2. To me, vitamin K is virtually meaningless, but I realise I might be over-stating the issue.

[helvella in reply to humanbean]

On the other hand, at least they mentioned K1 and K2!

[humanbean in reply to helvella]

True - but still not good enough in my view.

[TSH110 in reply to helvella]

And cheese!

[Hennerton]

I was so happy to read this, as I am always puzzled that in England the medical profession does not seem to connect good health with daily nutritious food. They will suggest almost anything other than the things we put into our bodies every single day. I hope the medical profession now starts to look at the average UK diet and make some sensible suggestions. Sadly I doubt it...

[m7-cola in reply to Hennerton]

Would help if there was more emphasis on diet in medical training. I understand only a minute (minute!!) amount is devoted to it.

[Hennerton in reply to m7-cola]

I am surprised they even mention it for a minute. Are you sure about that? I thought the attitude was that vitamins and minerals are simply for the irritating people who are overly obsessed with their health.

[AmandaK in reply to Hennerton]

Dr Aseem Malhotra and others have been lobbying parliament and becoming involved in discussions with regard to the nation's collective appalling diet and the failings of current dietary advice. The Big Fat Fix film was shown to MPs - though I'm not sure if they have taken too much heed - and Dr Malhotra has been part of policy discussions that focus on reducing sugar. He recently persuaded the PM not to reverse plans to introduce a sugar tax.

The film can be seen here for a small fee (I've not seen it yet):

thebigfatfix.com/

With Dr Donal O'Neill, Dr Malhotra devised the Pioppi diet, which, apparently, was undertaken by Matt Hancock to great success.

But, I suspect that big business, as well as big pharma, has far too much control over governments of all persuasions. And, of course, the populace doesn't take kindly to being told what to eat.

I was horrified, when doing a telephone order for my Dad that the supermarket's pre-ordained list of 'essential foodstuffs' included crisps, coke and chips. There seems to be a long way to go....

[YSpencer in reply to AmandaK]

I have been taking K2 for some time, it

can’t hurt can it . People should try to be open minded.

[Hennerton in reply to AmandaK]

I must take a look at the film. There is hope but probably only a minority of UK citizens will change their eating habits. I definitely think we need a huge tax on takeaway food, as this seems to be the root of the evil of poor food choices and has led to our woeful obesity statistics.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Hennerton]

Depends what the food you are taking away is. Remember that many restaurants are now doing takeaway to avoid going bankrupt and if it was OK to eat while sitting in, I don't see why it should be not OK to take away. Ready meals should definitely be taxed if takeaways should be.

[Hennerton in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Quite agree and I clump ready meals and takeaway together as I do not think either is as nutritious as we would wish. Definitely tax both.

[TSH110 in reply to Hennerton]

And for all the rubbish it creates we pay twice for that junk - healthwise and for litter removal. I was thinking back to when we were kids with my sister when none of that junk food existed, you used a basket and you might have got things in a brown paper bag. The chips in a newspaper seems shocking now, but lots of people claim it was the ideal packaging and they never tasted better - I don’t fancy that being reinstated!

[Hennerton in reply to TSH110]

One of the reasons I am so against takeaway food is that a few years ago my daughter worked in a London hospital and close by was a school. Every afternoon the children left school and queued up at a van to buy chicken and chips to eat on the way home. That evening their mothers went out to buy takeaway food for the evening meal. They were all obese and my daughter was seeing them in her clinic and was helpless to make any difference in their lives. Many were probably the people who are dying now of Covid. And what makes me so angry is that we are deprived of proper thyroid treatment and told we cannot have T3 because it is too expensive. I am lucky at the moment and get it prescribed but have to see an endocrinologist in August to assess my need. The country will be on its knees by then so I am not very hopeful.

Incidentally, just to reassure you, weren’t the chips in a little grease proof bag and then wrapped in newspaper? I do hope so.

[TSH110 in reply to Hennerton]

Good point I think they were 😊

I hope you get the T3, I think the situation is scandalous. I take NDT which is getting harder and harder to source and more and more expensive ....if you can find it, but really should have been allowed a T3 trial when I still did not feel better on T4, despite being optimised by TSH my free T3 was in the basement. I have the DIO2 polymorphism for poor conversion but only the partial one I hear that is not good enough to get a T3 trial 😬 I also have thyroid resistance genes, but can’t imagine it would make one iota of difference to what I’d be offered on the NHS - permanent ill health on Levothyroxine despite paying my national insurance all my working life. Whilst the health of the nation is ruined by companies promoting the guzzling of junk food and the streets are festooned with its litter. It’s a sorry state of affairs.

[Hennerton in reply to TSH110]

So good to hear someone else ranting about junk food! I sometimes feel like a lone soul but fortunately this site has more health conscious members than most.

[Hidden]

Somebody will start eating cheese to fend off covid lol

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

Yes! Just bought some nice piquant gorgonzola.

(Actually because I like it but maybe I was swayed into getting that rather than another tasty cheese by K2 thoughts.)

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to helvella]

Ooooh lovely! Can I pop round and pinch some 🤣

[TSH110 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Me too! It was my dad’s equal favourite with Roquefort 😊

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Hidden]

I just received a cheese "cake" order from the Cheese Shed - bought as a friend's birthday cake. It's tower of 4 different cheeses. They also do wedding cakes. Not cheap but all made in this country by (relatively) small businesses

[TSH110 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Pity I never got married that would be the wedding cake for me! Or one of each - Christmas cake without the cheese is like a kiss without the squeeze!

[tattybogle in reply to TSH110]

My dad always got himself half a Stilton from Melton for Christmas , which is the size of a wedding cake. It had to live in the Front room on its own. and it lasted us till easter, long after the 'posh room' had filled up with junk again . we used to dare our friends to open the door and smell !!! Very nice with a warm mince pie Dont cover it in plastic though. it has to be covered with buttered paper , coz my dad sez so !

[TSH110 in reply to tattybogle]

Mouthwatering thought...mince pie and Stilton cheese...a perfect food combination in my book 😍

[tattybogle in reply to TSH110]

Take lid off , put cheese in , put lid back on , put in oven , take out , yum , yum

[helvella in reply to tattybogle]

I quote from the Guardian December 2018:

Blue cheese A slice of stilton with How To Eat’s mince pie, you say? Clearly this is something made up by mischievous internet trolls to fool innocent readers into trying it. It will ruin mince pies for you, for ever.

theguardian.com/science/202...

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

caught red handed! yes I am in fact a longstanding undercover international cheese propagandist . deviously masquerading as a tent dwelling luddite with no IT skills.

[Hidden]

Blue cheese tastes awful haha

[Batty1 in reply to Hidden]

Love blue cheese in small doses!

[Beads in reply to Batty1]

Or large doses.......

[Hypopotamus]

I thought that the dangerous part of Covid-19 was that it formed blood clots. If so, the last thing that anybody needs to take is Vitamin K.

[helvella in reply to Hypopotamus]

Just because vitamin K is necessary for blood clotting doesn't mean that it should be avoided in covid-19 or other circumstances. (The exception being people taking "blood thinners".)

Since the primary deficiency disease associated with vitamin K is bleeding due to impaired blood clotting, it is often thought that high intake of vitamin K may increase thrombosis risk. This is evidently not true. Full carboxylation (and thus: maximal procoagulant activity) of the vitamin K-dependent clotting factors is essential, and vitamin K metabolism has been designed to meet that goal with highest priority. Excess vitamin K intake cannot result in more clotting factor carboxylation. This has also been demonstrated within our institute in thousands of subjects taking high doses of vitamin K during several years. Even when monitored with the most sensitive techniques (endogenous thrombin potential, ETP), an increased thrombosis tendency was not found in any of the participants. An exception is formed by patients receiving oral anticoagulants like warfarin or acenocoumarol that act as vitamin K-antagonists. Obviously excess vitamin K intake will interfere with this medication. On the other hand it is becoming increasingly clear that the long-term use of these drugs is associated with accelerated bone loss, low bone mass, and widespread valvular and arterial calcifications, thus demonstrating once more the importance of vitamin K for bone and vascular health.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[wellness1 in reply to helvella]

Thanks, very helpful.

[Hypopotamus in reply to helvella]

Thanks for that. It's good to know because it is needed when taking calcium supplements.

[kissemiss]

Thank you so much for this valuable information.

[Esselstyn]

This stinks as cheese propaganda, I have been interested in nutrition my whole live and consistently over the years, Vit. K1 was said to come from greens, Vit. K2 is produced in the gut by bowl bacteria a strain of which can be obtained to make Natto with soya beans. I have made Natto, I used marrowfat peas when I made it and it smells and tastes as if it has come from someone bowls. The bacterial spores used are very strong and I suspect living happily inside me to this day. The spores need activating to bring them to life and that is done by mixing them with the beans ( or peas ) while still boiling hot.

Eat greens and eat lots of different types of plants and feed those bowl bacteria and other organisms that live down there and take no notice of churnalism designed to make you buy cheese of eggs. The dairy and egg industry are always doing this stuff, eggs and dairy are some of the most unhealthy foods and cruelest to produce.

[helvella in reply to Esselstyn]

The Guardian article says this:

Janssen added: “We have [vitamin] K1 and K2. K1 is in spinach, broccoli, green vegetables, blueberries, all types of fruit and vegetables. K2 is better absorbed by the body. It is in Dutch cheese, I have to say, and French cheese as well.”

A Japanese delicacy of fermented soya beans called natto is particularly high in the second type of vitamin K and there may be cause for further studies into its health benefits, Janssen said.

That is, it puts fruit and vegetables in the first six sources mentioned. Then cheese is mentioned. And a whole paragraph about natto.

If it had been cheese propaganda, they could (and quite likely would) have de-emphasised natto and fruit and vegetables.

[tattybogle]

when stuck in the woods with no treats left , we used to eat edam and raisins together. if you close your eyes it tastes like chocolate.

[Esselstyn]

its good to see good reporting, I am a Guardian reader

[Esselstyn]

I haven't read the article but cheese is not a health food, its poison, congealed pus formed from the white blood cells in the milk, not fit for human consumption

[TSH110 in reply to Esselstyn]

I agree that dairy has a real down side as it is cruel.

You may find this article interesting:

smithsonianmag.com/science-...

[tattybogle in reply to TSH110]

The rest of the magazine looks full of interesting stuff too. thanks for the link. i'm just checking out their photo competition entries, as the view out my real window this morning is grey .

Edit: goodness gracious me , there are 504,000 entries, ,i may be some time.

[TSH110 in reply to tattybogle]

Someone has to win it and it might be you!!

[TSH110]

It has to be the right cheese! I recommend Cheshire and chocolate as a winning combination

[TSH110]

😱 it’s too contrived! Go for it 😊

[Hidden]

A good article. Could you let me know how to leave the website. Am spending too much time online. Thank you for the great information and support.

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

No idea!

Through some people suggest that applying Windows Updates can have quite an impact on your ability to use your computer for at least a few minutes, hours, days, ...

[tattybogle in reply to Hidden]

Welcome to the Hotel California

Such a lovely place,

Such a lovely place......

We are all just prisoners here

Of our own device.......

'Relax' said the night man

'You can check out any time you like

But you can never leave'

[Hidden in reply to tattybogle]

It's Healthunlocked Lock down in a Spanish or Portuguese language..try pressing the icon to edit or delete and you are put on another language page.. to get out I will have to swear profusely and call the administrators rude names ..but don't think this will do my non existent profile any good. Greetings to the hotel lockdown hope the luxury makes up for not being free. Thanks for making me laugh.

[tattybogle in reply to Hidden]

De Nada

[Hidden in reply to tattybogle]

bien!

[Hidden in reply to tattybogle]

I went to unlock

But the key stuck

I said a word

That rhymes with

Luck.

I was stuck

In a Spanish truck

On the border.

A lovely place

A lovely place

Then the the traffic moved.

I fell out of the truck

My luck

I was stuck in a cow pasture

I ran from the cows

To the road.

I was arrested.

I ran away hid behind my car.

Till out come a lucky star.

I drove back

Now I am free from

Cow muck

and the Spanish truck.

Thanks for your support. Love your poem.

[tattybogle in reply to Hidden]

Mama Said..There'll be day's like this .

[Hidden in reply to tattybogle]

That's an understatement! What a wise Mama you have. Since increasing my Dutch cheese fetish for vitamin K have put on about four pounds in weight. I ignore all government warnings about fats, as research shows that dairy in butter, milk and cheese, contains special acids which disrupt enveloped viruses. Coconut oil helps too. Going have to cut down on the chocolate though!

[Hidden]

Ha! My message language has converted to Spanish and Portuguese and am finding it difficult to reset. Will take your advice.