Trials to begin on Covid-19 vaccine in UK next month

[helvella]

How much of this is PR? How much political "We really are doing something..."? How much solid science? And, however good the scientific work, is this what was behind some of the claims and apparent assumptions?

(Not in any way criticising the individuals involved in the work. I am sure they are working every hour they can.)

I certainly hope this is accurate and continues apace - successfully.

Trials to begin on Covid-19 vaccine in UK next month

Researchers hope to conduct animal tests next week and safety trials as early as next month

A massive effort is under way to develop a UK vaccine for coronavirus within months and make it available to save lives before the end of the year, the Guardian has learned.

Researchers at Oxford University, led by Prof Sarah Gilbert, are planning a safety trial on humans of what is expected to be the UK’s first coronavirus vaccine next month. Provided that it goes smoothly, they will move directly into a larger trial to assess how effective the vaccine is at protecting against the infection.

Do go and read the rest of the article here:

theguardian.com/society/202...

[Hidden]

"How much of this is PR? How much political "We really are doing something..."? How much solid science? And, however good the scientific work, is this what was behind some of the claims and apparent assumptions?"

VERY GOOD QUESTIONS!

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

It could be exactly what it says. But I didn't want to post without advising caution about taking it at face value.

[Justiina]

I guess it depends on what type of vaccine it is. Seems there are differences in methods, like vaccine Russians are developing is different but that technique has been studied for long time.

Somewhere else it was another type technique in research for something else but they figured out this could be adjusted and turned into vaccine for corona.

So I say it's possible vaccine could be reality soon because of all work done prior corona to develop different methods and techniques that might be adjustable.

But can't say for sure how many countries claim they have it just to calm people down.

[helvella in reply to Justiina]

The vaccine they are developing is described thus:

Vaccines that operate the same way have been used safely in thousands of people, aged from one week old to 90 years, for diseases ranging from malaria and TB to Mers, another coronavirus, and Ebola, for which it is now being deployed in Uganda and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

[Baobabs in reply to helvella]

It will be interesting to see what those folk who are anti vaccinations think about this post?

[helvella in reply to Baobabs]

I believe that someone who was seen having much interaction with "anti-vaxxers" is now calling on their CDC, FDA and everyone else he is in charge of to get a vaccine ready within five minutes...

I find it very difficult because there clearly can be issues with some vaccines, sometimes. The support for those affected has not been ideal. Indeed, even identifying who has been affected seems like an endurance event.

[Baobabs in reply to helvella]

I'm certainly wavering with my entrenched view now.

[Sybilla14 in reply to helvella]

I’m hoping that any vaccine can be available hand in hand with the antibody test, they mentioned is being discussed. I’m not against vaccines per se but I am against inoculating where it’s not necessary, as was the case with rubella for example when I was a teen and most of us had already had it as young kids. Some people, genetically, have difficulties clearing heavy metals and other toxic materials from our bodies and these tend to be used in vaccines. I fear a corona vaccine will be used as money making opportunity for the pharmaceuticals and applied indiscriminately to all population.

[helvella in reply to Sybilla14]

I consider questioning use of mercury compounds as adjuvants in vaccines to be rational.

Similarly, the use of aluminium compounds.

But they are questions about specific vaccines, and even if they are found to have issues, other vaccines which do not contain them need to be considered on their merits.

[Sybilla14 in reply to helvella]

It is my understanding that also substances like formaldehyde are used as well as other toxic chemicals - all intended to inactivate the virus or stimulate the immune system. Unless vaccines can be delivered in something safe like a saline solution the adjuvants will create some toxicity. How this toxicity manifests, especially in the long term, we don’t know for sure but some think it may contribute to autoimmunity, for example.

[Marz in reply to Sybilla14]

Previously it was thought that 'toxins' remained at the needle site. This has now changed and they can travel through the body... ( Prof Chris Exley )

[Sybilla14 in reply to Marz]

Thank you for the reference, I’ll have a look 🙂 From what I have read/heard these various toxins can accumulate in some body organs, including the brain and potentially contribute to autoimmunity.

[helvella in reply to Sybilla14]

Yes, I do appreciate there are other ingredients which may cause concern.

But still, the issues need to be looked at for each and every vaccine product.

[Baobabs in reply to Sybilla14]

A money making venture? Of course, however this mentality will spur faster research and vaccine development. Incidentally, I have never understood why vaccine has to contain toxic substances?

[Sybilla14 in reply to Baobabs]

The cynic in me wonders if this is a gateway to making seasonal covid and flu jabs compulsory for all of us. The flu jabs have been sneakily moving into schools, all kids suddenly becoming an at risk group, and this set-up being effortless for parents the majority just agree to their kids having them.

[helvella in reply to Sybilla14]

In the school I attended, the year before I arrived, some of the pupils died from flu.

The school had a blanket flu vaccination program every year I was there. I don't remember anyone being exempted, nor do I remember any serious adverse reactions - just the usual cases of some not feeling 100% for a few days. (A long time ago now and memory is never perfect!)

I am only convinced I had flu once - many years later. I don't know if I had mild symptoms and didn't properly recognise it, or I have had immunity or just been lucky.

With covid, I don't see how a new vaccine can be created until the new variant has been identified. The earlist case of covid-19 I have seen mentioned was November 2019. If vaccine development had started then, in earnest, we would not have expected it to arrive until 2021 - too late. So I do not see covid vaccine being likely possible within the time frame of disease spread - if it is anything like this one.

[Sybilla14 in reply to helvella]

I agree with you but this is no different to the flu vaccines, which are based on the previous year’s strain and not much helpful with the current strain. They can only do the same with the covid as it will be mutating whilst the vaccine is being developed. I do however think that on the back of this pandemic and the fear that came with it they may mandate seasonal vaccination, perhaps even more than once a year.

It is clear the flu vaccine has been pushed hard and making money to the manufacturers and surgeries, etc. No issue with that in principle, it’s their livelihood, I just don’t want to see toxic vaccines being forced if there’s little proof of efficacy (as will be the case with this new vaccine). The flu vaccine is claimed to be c.30-40% effective although I’m not sure how they can reliably measure this. Some illness will take years to develop and I doubt any long term studies are available or even possible at this stage. There have been deaths and chronic side effects from the HPV vaccine, thankfully not being mandated as yet.

[helvella in reply to Sybilla14]

Lack of covid vaccine seems to be having such a devastating effect that it is hard to imagine a vaccine being worse. Especially if, as might happen, there are multiple vaccines so not everyone around the world gets the same one. That is, even if one does have serious "side effects", the others might not.

[Marz in reply to helvella]

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

[helvella in reply to Marz]

Right now, I would rather take the risk of having even a new and relatively untested vaccine than getting covid-19.

Yes, I appreciate not everyone will agree and, anyway, everyone has their own circumstances, beliefs, etc. to consider.

[Baobabs in reply to helvella]

I think this is just what they want us to think!

[Marz in reply to Baobabs]

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

[Marz in reply to Baobabs]

Allegedly as adjuvant- to speed up the immune response ???

[Justiina in reply to helvella]

Tobacco based vaccines are quite different (that's what Russians try to develop) I wonder if anti-vaxxers would consider that as non vaccine.

[TSH110 in reply to helvella]

They are also cheaper and very effective compared to long term medications - not as much profit in it for drug companies. Do they drive all this anti vaccine movement?

I agree with you re compensation.

[Treepie]

There are other trials of two existing vaccines ,one is used against ebola.

.A company called Synairgen (spelling?) is trialling a therapy using an inhaled formulation of interferon beta to directly attack the effects of the virus in the lungs .

[helvella in reply to Treepie]

Their website has more information:

synairgen.com/

[Treepie in reply to helvella]

On this site pharma gets some stick ,often deserved, but now we need their efforts . Novacyt has had £2.3 million orders for its molecular testing kit. Roche has a kit that can deliver over 4000 results in 24 hours and shipped 400,000 kits to the US.

Glaxo has partnered with a Chinese Biotech Clover Biopharmaceuticals to work on a novel vaccine, Sanofi is working on altering its Sars vaccine.

Moderna is testing its vaccine on 45 young volunteers.

Regulators are allowing speeded up trial processes.

Johnson and Johnson and Regeneron are going through their drugs to see what might be useful. The latter is testing Kevzara an arthritis drug.

Gilead is testing remdesivir developed for Ebola but was effective against Sars and Mers. It worked on one patient in Washington and is now being trialed in China and Hong Kong.

Perhaps we will be a little more appreciative of pharma in due course.

But it is still likely to be over a year before sufficient quantities of a vaccine are available and this virus could mutate again. Lets hope that Synairgens therapy will work in the interim.

[helvella in reply to Treepie]

All too often the pharma companies that have caused problems have been the secondary companies.

The ones which do little or no research, grab rights, and increase prices simply because they can.

Plus the way in which research done by a company remains in their vaults regardless the potential benefits to everyone.

I do not know how this should be changed. At present, the simple fact that journals are allowing open access to almost all corona virus/covid-19 papers is a huge plus. That is how it needs to be not just now but always. (We even see papers from over a century ago locked behind paywalls.) Yes, digitisation and providing access have some costs but there must be a better way.

[Marz]

I have read that the virus can mutate rapidly as it did when it jumped from animal to human - and then human to hunan. This makes me question the efficacy of a vaccine. Rather like trying to guess the flu vaccine each year.

[helvella in reply to Marz]

That is a genuine possible issue. We can hope that the similarities are sufficient...

[Valarian in reply to Marz]

Especially since they are apparently concentrating on one aspect of the virus. However, they say it isn’t currently mutating much within the human population.

A positive point is that the Oxford team were already looking at a vaccine against a potential future ‘disease x’ which is how they managed to get this off the ground so quickly. Presumably if it does mutate, they will be able to adopt the same approach again - but this time, with a better understanding of this particular virus.

[Marz in reply to Valarian]

I read recently that they had found 39 strains in NYC. I find it difficult to understand how they can develop something about which they are still, learning .... I am not anti-vax but do want a safe one ! Corona as a group of viruses has been with us since the beginning of man - perhaps it is how the environment and man has changed its reaction to the virus - that is causing a problem ...

[helvella in reply to Marz]

I think those developong vaccines, at least the responsible ones, are well aware of the possible challenges of mutations.

[Marz in reply to helvella]

As Gates has been pouring money into Imperial College where Ferguson heads up the Vaccine project - I am concerned. The Government have also poured dosh in to the tune of - rather a lot ! Wellcome are the only other donor bigger than BG. I want a level playing field where - as you say - the responsible companies stand a chance. Money usually talks ...

[HappyHealthyGirl in reply to Marz]

I was speaking to a biochemist recently, who works in medical research - their team is not working directly on the coronavirus, but are keeping abreast of research - they have learned that this virus is not mutating much, which would make a vaccine more possible.

Whether we want an untested inoculation forced on us by the likes of BG is an entirely different question!

[Marz in reply to HappyHealthyGirl]

I have read they have found many strains in NYC patients ...

There is a Global Vaccine virtual Conference being staged in the UK - early June - organised before lockdown or even the arrival of a virus ?? Mr Ferguson is Acting Director of the Vaccine Impact Modelling Consortium and no doubt very busy. Think we have read enough about his modelling predictions over the years to be a cause of concern. Billions for the economy perhaps ?

[helvella in reply to Marz]

There being many slight variations doesn't immediately and necessarily preclude an effective vaccine, as I understand. It seems to depend on whether the bit that is recognised by the immune system is a part that changes enough to be important.

[DippyDame]

I think, during this crisis, we need to trust both the scientists - we have some of the best in the world - and their medic colleagues.

The public need to support both their work and the long hours they spend researching a vaccine for the benefit of all. Without one the outcome is unthinkable!

Instead, many are flouting all advice given and in the process risking becoming "spreaders" thus making the whole rotten mess even worse for everyone... particularly the people battling to help us get through what is an unprecedented crisis.

I am sick, tired and wholly disgusted by the behaviour of a section of the public whose only interest seems to be self, as they fight over loo rolls, stock pile goods and drink their way into oblivion with little thought for others. This is not the time!

Thankfully many more are pulling together through what is the only major public crisis most people will have experienced in their lifetime. We owe them a great debt.

At this critical point in time the scientists and medics need support....how many of the rest amongst us could do their job!

Rant over!

Be safe everyone.

DD