Synthroid and NDT

[dragonfly76]

Hello everyone I have taken NDT for over 7 years and I never felt well no matter what dose I was on it. In January I tried switching to T3 only and I felt well for a few days and started getting really sick again but I continued increasing 6.5 mcg every 2 weeks. I was not well and my night sweats got worst to the point I couldn't take it anymore. By then I was taking 56.5 mcg of T3 only and I reduced it to 25mcg of T3 and added 60 mg NDT (Erfa thyroid) because that's what I had at home. My night sweats go a lot less and I felt colder through out the day. I have been on this dose for over 3 weeks and I had a talk over the phone with a new Endocrinologist that was recommended by someone as being very good. He told me to take 60 mg NDT and add 100 of Synthroid and reduce the 25 mcg of T3 by half the first week and the other half the next week. He thinks I was feeling better when I changed to T3 only for a few days from NDT because the T4 was still in my system and that NDT has too much T3 and that's why I never felt well on NDT. He thinks I need more T4 than T3. Is anyone taking Synthroid and NDT? What's your dose?

Now that I am taking 25mcg of T3 and 60mg of NDT I will be reducing my T3 and adding Synthroid. He told me to take 100 of Synthroid and test in 7 weeks but I know that's too much to add all at once by reading here all the time. I was thinking of cutting the tablet and try taking 25mcg. Do I have to increase 25mcg every 2 weeks or 6 weeks? This is my first time taking Synthroid and don't know what to expect. Thank you guys for everything!

[greygoose]

Personally, I would say it's not possible to give any opinions, without seeing a few blood test results: results on NDT and results on T3 only. But, of one thing I am sure, if any doctor made such a suggestion go me, I would run away as fast and as far as I possibly could!

It's all being done too quickly. T3 should not be reduced by more than 5/6.25 mcg every two weeks. You are going from 56.5 mcg T3 to 34 mcg T3 in one go. And, on top of that, you are adding 38 mcg T4 at the same time. You are then planning to reduce your T3 by another 25 mcg just one week later, and increase T4 by 100 mcg: another two mistakes - reducing T3 by too much and increasing T4 by too much too soon. T4 should only be increased by 25 mcg every six weeks. All that is going to be a tremendous shock to your body, and says to me that this endo has no idea what he's doing. And, the chances of you missing your sweet-spot are very strong.

Plus, as you've never been on T4 only, you have no idea how well you convert. It could be that you need quite a high dose of T3, but you don't really know, and this is not the ideal way to find out. You won't know if resulting symptoms are due to the massive changes or the lack of T3. I think your endo is making assumptions that he really shouldn't without any proof. And, one of the reasons we need to go slowly with hormones is because we can have no idea in advance of just how much we need. Well, that's my opinion, anyway. I would just refuse to do it.

[dragonfly76 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you Greygoose. I took T3 without any doctor's supervision and I got my T3 online. I wanted to see if T3 suited me but I only felt well for a few days and then everything went down hill. I kept on increasing 6.5mcg every two weeks until I reached to 56.5 and the night sweats were just too much I decided to reduce it to 25mcg and added 60 NDT since I had that at home. I know that wasn't too smart but I was desperate and was just too hot. I figured the T3 would leave very quickly. Now the 100 T4 he told me to add that to the 60mg NDT which I know it is just too much and he never told me to introduce it slowly for my body to get used to it. I will take it slowly and do bloodwork when I am taking the 100 of T4 for 7 weeks. It will take a lot longer than he wanted but I don't want to try to make myself sicker.

[greygoose in reply to dragonfly76]

The half-life of T3 in the blood is more or less one day. But, the T3 that gets into the cells stays there for about three days. So, not as fast as all that.

Bes to take it slowly with the T4, yes. Still not a recommendation for that endo, though.

[dragonfly76 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you so much I really appreciate your time and advise. Take Care

[greygoose in reply to dragonfly76]

You're welcome. Stay safe.

[dragonfly76 in reply to greygoose]

Can I reduce half of 25 mcg of T3 and add 25mcg of T4?

[greygoose in reply to dragonfly76]

6.25 mcg T3 to 25 mcg T4. 12.5 mcg is too much in one go.

[dragonfly76 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you, I'll do that.

[greygoose in reply to dragonfly76]

You're welcome.

[Hidden]

I'm too tired to try and understand what on earth you're talking about, but can only suppose you are messing about far too much with dosages of anything that comes to hand.

The only thing I can suggest is that you forget whatever it was you had last and take NOTHING for the next few days until you start to feel so rotten that you have to take something, anything.............

Suggest that this is the NDT and that you stick the synthetic stuff somewhere that's difficult to access, in case you are tempted to take any of that as well. Stick with the single product (at a relatively low dosage) for a week or two and then give it some serious thought as to what to do next, eg swap to T3/T4 or T4 or increase/decrease dose of NDT.

Anything thyroid related takes time, lots of time, don't rush anything.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Absolutely essential to regularly retest B12, folate, ferritin and vitamin D

These all need to be optimal for thyroid hormones to work well and are frequently extremely low

Night sweats often linked to low B12

[dragonfly76 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you SlowDragon. I have been taking 5000 iu of vitamin D3 because I was severely deficient last Summer and taking Vitamin D3 helped my immune system a lot. I used to catch everything that went around. I also take vitamin k2 and magnesium. Once in a while I won't take it to give myself a break. I hope my doctor will be willing to test me. Vitamin B12 I take injections but sometimes I take long to get it. I should be getting them soon. Ferritin I am still working on it. That's the most difficult one for me. I take B-complex that has 400mcg of folate.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dragonfly76]

Yes many people find ferritin the hardest to improve

If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before any blood tests, as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

How frequently do you get B12 injections?

Many people need them more frequently than every 3 months

Vitamin D test

vitamindtest.org.uk

[dragonfly76 in reply to SlowDragon]

Iron kills my gut, even though I take vitamin c and magnesium. I already suffer from severe constipation. B 12 injection I am prescribed 2x a week by a Naturopath, but sometimes I take long to get it. Thank you.

[dragonfly76 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you for the links.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dragonfly76]

Have you tried eating liver or liver pate once a week. Plus other iron rich foods

Some people find freeze dried liver supplements as capsules are good

[dragonfly76 in reply to SlowDragon]

I can't stand eating liver or liver pate, but I eat steaks and short ribs. Where can I buy freeze dried liver supplements?

[Marz in reply to dragonfly76]

Amazon !

[dragonfly76 in reply to Marz]

Thank you, I'll see if I can find it.

[Marz in reply to dragonfly76]

Type it into the Search bar on Amazon website ...

[dragonfly76 in reply to Marz]

Thank you

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dragonfly76]

Post about ferritin here

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

And this one

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

See reply from Kipsy

[dragonfly76 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you, I'll look into it.

[LAHs in reply to dragonfly76]

Regarding : "I used to catch everything that went around." I did an experiment once, I experimented by doing as my doctor told me, which was to reduce my dose because my TSH was "too low". I had been struggling for about two years at that point and just wondered if she was right and I was being an idiot. No, it was the other way round. As I stayed on my reduced dose I got sicker and sicker catching everything that went around. I had never been a sickly person, I had never spent an afternoon listless and half asleep on the couch - I was usually out on my bike. So, I would suggest that whatever dose you are on with whatever meds you are taking that you are severely under medicated or simply not converting your T4 to T3 - it is the T3 that will make you feel well. Please get a full thyroid panel blood test and post it here so that we can all make sensible guesses for you. Oh and btw, your pulse and blood pressure are good indicators of your T3 level - in a very crude sense. If either is higher than usual then you are over medicated. Another factor is that over medicated in T3 can also cause fatigue because it makes your heart beat too fast - which will exhaust you, like running your car engine too fast for too long.

[dragonfly76 in reply to LAHs]

Than you. How do you check your pulse and blood pressure at home?

[LAHs in reply to dragonfly76]

Well, your pulse is easy. Put the fingers of one hand on the wrist, just under the thumb of your other hand. When you feel the pulse go to a clock with a finger hand and mark a good starting point, say on the minute, half minute or 1/4 minute. Then count while the finger on the clock makes a complete circle (that will be one minute). Your count will be your bpm (your pulse count). Now if you are very young and you only know digital clocks: while you are at your computer, locate your pulse as explained. Keep your fingers on your pulse and watch the computer's clock (top right on most computers). Wait until the minutes change, then count while watching the computer clock. When the minute numbers change again one minute has lapsed, your count is your bpm. A reasonable answer is about 60bpm

Now, blood pressure (BP) is a bit more tricky. I am not sure if chemists have BP machines in England but that is how I do it here. If I go out shopping I drop into my chemist (which we call pharmacies) and I stick my arm in their machine (it's free) and a minute or so later it gives me a reading. A reasonable answer is 120/60 mmHg. So I think that "at home" for BP is not on, locate a chemist with a BP machine.

[dragonfly76 in reply to LAHs]

Thank you, that was helpful.

[Hypopotamus in reply to LAHs]

We have BP machines in the UK but they are not free. Boots charge 70p.

[dragonfly76 in reply to Hypopotamus]

I live in Canada, thank you

[LAHs in reply to dragonfly76]

I think they are free in Canada too. Any Canadians able to verify this?

[dragonfly76 in reply to LAHs]

It's free at the pharmacy

[LAHs in reply to Hypopotamus]

That's a pity. You probably don't have as much high BP in England as we do in the crazy US. (That's just a joke btw, not a political statement).

[helvella in reply to LAHs]

There are vast numbers of blood pressure machines available on numerous online and (usually) real-world shops.

Prices typically about 20 pounds (UK) and upwards - depending on extra features such as memories and fancy cuffs.

Make sure the cuff is the right size for your arm as buying another cuff can be disproportionately expensive. (Some come with extra wide size range cuffs.)

There are many advantages to having a home machine including the ability to readily do both arms, repeat if something happens, sit down or stand up, do straight after exercise or after a long quiet period.

[dragonfly76 in reply to helvella]

Thank you for taking the time to write, I'll look into this.

[LAHs in reply to helvella]

Yes, thanks for those details H. I was trying to explain it without going to the expense of buying a BP machine. I never seem to have the spare $100 to buy one here so I didn't want to blithly tell DF76 to go buy one. But yes, of course to measure your BP at home, buying a machine is the simplest and most useful method.