Levi/synthroid to Armour conversion

[Vanmorrisonfan]

I am confused about synthroid and armour equivalencies. Apparently 60 mg or one grain of armor is equivalent to 100 mcg of Synthroid, yet it’s also true that one grain of armour contains only 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. . How can it be equivalent to 100? Does that the T-3 make up that much difference? Are they comparing the effectiveness because the mcg amounts don’t add up. I’ma combo user and am trying to see how this works.

[pennyannie]

Yes - they are comparing the effectiveness- which again is not clear cut and just a guide as we all digest and utilise thyroid hormones differently.

T3 is said to be around 4 times more powerful than T4 - so if you pop that in the mix it may make a bit more sense on paper -

1 grain Armour contains trace elements of T1. T2 and calcitonin + a measure of T3 at 9mcg + a measure of T4 at 38 mcg - so the fixed ratio is 1/4.22 - T3/T4 - and works very well for many thousands of people.

If T4 monotherapy doesn't work well - your dose equivalent in NDT - is irrelevant -

All you can do is try - and for a smooth transition - when you switch - go low and slow -

the T4 will take around 6-8 weeks to fully leave your body and in that time frame you slowly build up your dose of Armour in 1/4 grain increments weekly/fortnightly:

No thyroid hormone treatment options work well until your core strength vitamins and minerals - those of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D are up and maintained at optimal levels :

[radd]

Vanmorrisfan

I know, it is confusing.

To achieve the 100mcg T4, Armour is referring to the bio-equivalence. To understand how this comes about you need a basic understanding of the three thyroid enzyme deiodinases (D1, D2, and D3) that (in)activate thyroid hormones by selectively removing iodine atoms in various locations.

When thyroid hormone from the blood stream reaches the cellular membrane it is cleaved from transport proteins and becomes available (free) for conversion. D1 and D2 convert T4 to T3 (and other metabolites) through different mechanisms. D3 converts T4 to RT3, and T3 to inactive T2 and other forms of inactive metabolites according to metabolic demands and/or influencing illness.

These deiodinases are also influenced by each other and rising levels of T3 (eg the introduction or dose increase of Armour) should up-regulate further conversion. Therefore, the total sum of T3 we receive should be more than the amount we medicate.

In healthy thyroid physiology, the deiodination of T4 occurs in multiple sites such as the liver, kidney, and other tissues, with the rest excreted, recycled, etc. However, these sites may be impaired either genetically or by previous levels of inadequate thyroid hormones and therefore conversion of T4 to T3 may be lower than the amount required for good health. Forum members have suggested a bioequivalence of anything from 75mcg T4 upwards. I always equate 1 grain Armour to about 85mcg T4.

And finally .... as you say Armour states 1 grain contains 60mg made up of 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3. However, most conversions equate T3 to be 3 or 4 times that of T4 but Armour has somehow worked it to be 2.44444 (2.4444 x 9) + 38 = 60. On top of this they refer to mcg as mg, and America calls NDT, DTE (desiccated thyroid extract).

[tattybogle in reply to radd]

Radd ~ ?...... i thought the '60mg' in Armour (60mg/ 1 grain ) referred to the weight of the tablet itself ( ie ALL the ingredients) , not anything to do with the amount of T4/T3...... or maybe i've just got confused after having a dicky fit 10 minutes ago ....(the bin men have nicked my favourite antique recycling bins ~ two very sturdy plastic shopping baskets i pinched from NETTO 15 yrs ago that fit perfectly under a transit van seat and in the gap between my fridge and the wall.... who do i complain to that something i stole has been stolen ?.... how very dare they ! )

[helvella Administrator in reply to tattybogle]

60 milligrams is the weight of the standardised desiccated thyroid powder (Thyroid USP).

The tablet will have other ingredients (calcium stearate, dextrose, microcrystalline cellulose, sodium starch glycolate and opadry white).

I wish I had a tablet to weigh!

[radd in reply to helvella]

Thanks helvella, that solves my puzzle. Silly me 🙄. I have a tablet to weigh but no scales that weigh that little amount.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to radd]

No friendly local drug dealers in your area with scales?😏... how about the pharmacy?

[radd in reply to TiggerMe]

Then the pharmacy would think I was a drug dealer 😆

[radd in reply to tattybogle]

Yeh, how very dare they!

Re Armour weight, we wouldn’t do very well on University Challenge tats 😆.

[FallingInReverse in reply to tattybogle]

What has the world come to?!

Garbage men stealing garbage cans???? Is that what happened?

See the way I translated that from British 🤣….

[Vanmorrisonfan]

thanks! Both explanations were helpful. I didn’t know that D is actually crucial to the process!

[Vanmorrisonfan]

question about D-3. Since D-3 is used for deactivating T-3 , I assume when you have too much, should I be getting supplementation of D-3 instead? In other words, is D-3 counterproductive?

[helvella Administrator in reply to Vanmorrisonfan]

Looks like confusion!

The D1, D2 and D3 involved in processing thyroid hormones are deiodinase enzymes (also called DIO1, DIO2 and DIO3 - as are the genes which make them).

Absolutely nothing to do with vitamins D2, D3 and D4! (There is no vitamin D1.)

You cannot supplement the enzymes.