Vitamins B supplementation

[Hashimoto123]

Hello everyone!

I need your opinion on supplementation on Hashimoto.

I now have what seems to be a flare and everything in my system seems to flunctuate, whether it is antibodies, TSH, vitamins etc.

I now have great lightheadedness and orthostatic intolerance.

Through my tests it showed that my folate is a bit low (4,7 in a range of 4,8-19). So I decided to supplement. I took for a while a B-Complex supplement for a while. The light-headedness seem to reduce when taking it but I had terrible migraines on it.

I then switched to a supplement containing B6, folate, B12, iron, zinc and copper.

Both the light-headedness stopped again and the migraines as well. But I now have terrible palpitations and a feeling that I am stabbed on my heart.

Once I stopped it as well the palpitations calmed down but the light-headedness came back.

What i want to ask you is if you think that the supplements indeed caused my symptoms or it is just my idea? (For example it may be another gift from Hashimoto, and the symptoms coincidentally came when supplementing).

And if it can be that the symptoms are indeed caused by the supplements, what kind of supplementation can I take to reduce the light-headedness without any other symptoms?

[greygoose]

Before you supplement anything, you should get vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested, and plan your supplementation according to the results - we can help you with that.

Taking any sort of multi - apart from a B complex with only Bs in it - can be problematic. For example: B6, folate, B12, iron, zinc and copper. The one you were taking. As it had iron in it, you would not have been able to absorb the B6, B12 or folate, because iron blocks the absorption of vitamins. And, whilst hypos are usually low in zinc, they are also usually high in copper. Taking more copper could cause problems. One should always test copper before taking.

I now have what seems to be a flare and everything in my system seems to flunctuate, whether it is antibodies, TSH, vitamins etc.

A Hashi's flare is where the dying cells, during an autoimmune system attack on the thyroid, dump their store of hormone into the blood, causing FT4 and FT3 to rise sharply, and therefore TSH to drop. So, whilst levels can fluctuate with Hashi's, with a flare they will be out of range for quite a while.

Antibodies fluctuate all the time. But, I've never heard of vitamin levels fluctuating. They usually rise or fall very slowly. But, with Hashi's, you certainly are likely to have low levels, but not always, which is why they need to be tested. Nothing is going to help you feel better if you take it when you don't need it. If fact, with some supplements, like iron and vit D, that could be dangerous.

[Hashimoto123 in reply to greygoose]

Hey greygoose!

Thanks for answering.

I have had the tests and they are all now within range. The only problematic seems to be folate, which I mentioned earlier, and vitamin D.

In terms of vitamins flunctuations, i have had for 2 months low B12, along with fever due to the flare. Once the fever subsided, the B12 came to normal without supplementation.

Vitamin D also flunctuates a lot, since I cannot seem to be able to raise it to a stable number. But I am also on a sunny place so it seems to go up and down on the low side.

So if I understand correctly what you are saying is that indeed the supplements with iron can cause such symptoms as I described.

And I should only supplement in what I am deficient on, I. E. Folate and vitamin D. Is this correct?

[greygoose in reply to Hashimoto123]

I cannot tell you what you should supplement without seeing the blood test results and ranges. Just being in-range does not automatically mean that the result is good.

So if I understand correctly what you are saying is that indeed the supplements with iron can cause such symptoms as I described.

No, that's not at all what I said. I said that multis containing iron will block absorption of all vitamins. Whether or not that causes symptoms depends on your vitamin levels.

I also said that you should not take a supplement containing copper without testing first, because hypos often have high copper levels, so taking more could possibly cause symptoms. But, then again, depends on your level of copper. It's far, far better to take supplements individually and just take what you need.

Having a Hashi's flare will not cause a fever. Sounds more like you had some sort of bug. I much prefer to use the term Hashi's 'hyper' swing, because that more accurately describes what happens. The word 'flare' can so easily be confused with a 'flare up', but it's not the same thing.

[Hashimoto123 in reply to greygoose]

"I cannot tell you what you should supplement without seeing the blood test results and ranges. "

I understood that. Unfortunately, as I said, all tests seem to flunctuate to me. So even if I post the latest labs, they are still 4-5 months old. So the case may be different for me now. I will have these tests though and supplement then.

But let me rephrase what I said on my previous post: given that I perform vitamin tests, I should only supplement on my deficiencies (even if they are within range).

As for the iron, I asked that suppose that I already have optimal iron value, supplementing more with it may cause symptoms as I described. Is this correct? In other words iron supplementation is not as innocent as b vitamins (which if in excess the body dumps it).

As for copper I didn't know about that not had I ever had it tested. Nice to know. Note to also have it tested.

As for the fever, it most probably wasn't a bug. I have had a fever for 2 straight months (which is much for any bug), and doctors couldn't find anything. I also had extreme hyper symptoms (palpitations, tremors, heat intolerance etc) and a painful extremely swollen thyroid.

So the diagnosis was thyroiditis. I assume that it was Hashimoto thyroiditis.

[greygoose in reply to Hashimoto123]

But let me rephrase what I said on my previous post: given that I perform vitamin tests, I should only supplement on my deficiencies (even if they are within range).

Yes, you only take what you need. Most nutrients should be in the top half of the range. If they're in the lower half, you probably need more. Vit B12 should be, in a serum test, over 550. In an active test, over 70 - although I would want mine higher than that.

As for the iron, I asked that suppose that I already have optimal iron value, supplementing more with it may cause symptoms as I described.

You don't want high ferritin levels, that is true. Whether or not it would cause symptoms if too high, I cannot say. People with very high ferritin do not appear to have specific symptoms.

As for the fever, it most probably wasn't a bug. I have had a fever for 2 straight months (which is much for any bug), and doctors couldn't find anything. I also had extreme hyper symptoms (palpitations, tremors, heat intolerance etc) and a painful extremely swollen thyroid.

Even if the fever wasn't due to a bug, it wouldn't be due to a Hashi's flare. And, the symptoms you mention could also be hypo symptoms. A lot of them do cross over.

So the diagnosis was thyroiditis. I assume that it was Hashimoto thyroiditis.

Thyroiditis just means a swollen thyroid. Not exactly perspicacious as diagnoses go. And could have been caused by a bug.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested.

Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially as you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Ask GP to test vitamin levels

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

Is this how you do your tests?

Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

For thyroid including antibodies and vitamins

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have special offers, Medichecks usually have offers on Thursdays, Blue Horizon its more random

Come back with new post once you get results

[Jasp6]

You could try introducing the b-complex more slowly. This worked for my husband who also got bad headaches when he first started b-complex following below range folate blood results.

[Hashimoto123 in reply to Jasp6]

What do you mean more slowly? Instead of daily to have 3 times a week for example?

Thanks for the tip!

[Jasp6 in reply to Hashimoto123]

Yes. I think he initially dropped back to 2/3 x per week and increased up to 1 per day over around 6 weeks. He saw big improvements in energy from resolving his folate deficiency.