VITAMIN D ADVICE PLEASE!

Hi All

I would be very grateful for your take on this.

I am hypo with a high TSH of 3.74 and over range TGO of 274 <115, Vitamin D 69 (50-120)

My main problem is muscle aches, especially of the vastus medialis - I am a keen cyclist.

I have been on NDT for sometime now, which does not seem to help with the aches.

So, 5 months ago, on the advice of many on this forum who said that my Vit D was not 'optimal', (some said to aim for as high as 150!) I tried 1000iu D for a week starting on a monday.

However, my usual 60m sunday ride was the worst for a very long time.

So, thinking it was the extra D that I had taken, I stopped them.

However, again! following the advice of many on here, I decided to try D agan.

So, I looked on amazon for the best D to try.

And came up with Nutri D3/K2, especially after being intrgued by a review by someone who said, that, initially, his muscle and joint pains got worse.

However, instead of stopping the D, he researched some more. And found this!

VIt D supplementation can do this, because it's a sign that the body is trying to heal itself!?

So, he persisted,and his symptoms resolved!!!

So, I took 1000iu Nutri D3/K2 this morning (monday) after my so-so ride yesterday, and again this evening.

However, again, as 5 months ago, I can honestly say that now at 2330, my muscle aches are the worst they have ever been.

So, I am definitely minded (again!) to stop the D.

What does anyone think about this please?

I also read somewhere that some people do better on D2?

Thank you for reading. And good health!

Alps Holiday

[Wetsuiter]

you ll probably need to give it more than one day before you know anything. it frustrating when your quality of life and things you like to do are affected, but you need to take some time.

as its ridiculous o clock, i havent looked back on previous posts or meds history, or why your tsh is high, but could not, not say this.

[Chippysue]

D2 is not worth taking

The re are many people who will say that you also need vitamin K2 with D3. Well magnesium is essential too, I think the best thing for you to do is research - there are a few books on vitamin d. It is VITAL for good health.

I would look into all of your vitamins and minerals. Have you been tested? How is your b12? Do you take vitamin c?

Magnesium and selenium?

[Hidden in reply to Chippysue]

Thanks chippysue for points to look out for

I dotake B12 10ug

Magnesium 200mg

k2 200 mcg

Selenium 50 mcg

No addd vit c but I do eat 5 fruit and 6 types of veg

Thanks

Alps

[Hidden in reply to Chippysue]

Hi chippysue

Why do you say D2 is not worth taking please?

Thanks

Alps

[meme]

69 is low and you will need more meds than 1000. I took 9000D plus cofactors, Boron, high K2 and magnesium to get to 200 in 4 months from 61.

[Hidden in reply to meme]

Thanks meme

What symptoms are you addressing with your D3 intake please?

I take mag and k2, not boron

How does boron help with muscles please

Thanks

Alps

[meme in reply to Hidden]

Boron helps to build strong bones and muscles I understand .

My symptoms before D were... headaches, hair loss , balance, fatigue, poor sleep, neck pain, hip pain,vision problems.

[Hidden in reply to meme]

Thank you meme and glad to hear that D has helped you

As for me, after reading roukounasGK's post that D is contra-indicated with Hashis, I shall definitely stop supplementing D

Thanks

Alps

[Kathymilner in reply to meme]

Hi Meme, how much D do you take and is it D3 please because I am getting most of the symptoms you listed. I have taken Vit D3 for 30 years but only 1000iu. Been Hypo for 30yrs, type 1 for25yrs and

Polymyalgia for2yrs. My head is floaty, arthritis has flared up in left wrist, hips and knees I’m really struggling this week. I also take 250 Magnesium, 200 selenium and lutein.

[meme in reply to Kathymilner]

I started with 9000D3 a day. Now on 6000 and will drop to 3000 soon and re test.

I also take K2 , Boron and magnesium. Which according to a FB vit D group should be taken with large D doses.

What was your last D reading?

[posthinking01]

Hi I thought I sent a reply earlier from my phone but see it didn't get posted so here goes again. Vitamin D depletes magnesium - so every 1,000 IU's D causes an issue. Try get some Better You Magnesium oil - which will help - as a cyclist this will help with muscle tiredness after exercise - it is used by marathon runners etc. - the D is drawing in calcium so you will need the magnesium to balance the 'bad' effects that calcium can cause in some people. Every time I give my other half D - which he needs - where he broke his arm he gets terrible bone pain. I believe D is good for you and needed if you are low - but make sure you dissolve the calcium with Mg. Would pleased to hear if this helps.

[Hidden in reply to posthinking01]

Thank you posthinking01

I do take 1.2 g calcium and 200 mag

You say that your partner gets bone pain from D?

That's what the amazon reviewer said as well

However, he continued and the pain stopped!

I've emailed him for more info and will share with you if he replies

Thanks

Alps

[vocalEK in reply to Hidden]

Most of us get sufficient calcium from our diets, even if we are not milk drinkers. You may be overdosing by taking a Calcium supplement along with the vitamin D. Vitamin D helps to route dietary calcium to your bones and teeth -- provided you are also taking some vitamin K2, and--if you have muscle problems--magnesium. If your Calcium blood levels were tested and found to be low, that's another story.

[Hidden in reply to vocalEK]

thanks vocal ek

My last calcium check was 2.30 (2.20-2.40)

I also take K2 Mk7, mag, selenium, b12

Thanks

Alps

[JOLLYDOLLY]

Have you been checked for B12 deficiency as well - as they can walk hand in hand with Vitamin D deficiency and have similar symptoms? Take care

[Hidden in reply to JOLLYDOLLY]

Thank you jollydolly

Yes I do take 10ug B12, qs a vegan diet is short on this vit

Thanks

Alps

[msb44]

Many of us don't convert D2 to the usable form, D3. So D3 is recommended and preferred. As we age, we often lose the ability to convert.

[Hidden in reply to msb44]

Thank you ms b44

I do take D3

Any ideas why it hasmade my muscles worse please?

Thanks

Alps

[msb44 in reply to Hidden]

Why do you think the Vitamin D has made your muscles worse? Check this out.

"High levels of vitamin D may improve muscle strength. ... A new study suggests that vitamin D may also improve muscle strength. New research suggests that active levels of vitamin D may improve muscle function. Vitamin D is key for the development and maintenance of healthy bones.Feb 16, 2017"

High levels of vitamin D may improve muscle strength

medicalnewstoday.com › articles

[Hidden in reply to msb44]

Thank you msb44

I am absolutely sure now that the high D doses I took on 2 occasions were the cause of my muscle aches

I wasn't 100% sure the first time I tried it 5 months ago

So, and after everyone saying D levels should be 150+! I tried again

And with the same result

Also, a few people on here have come back to say that extra D makes them ill

Which leads me to believe that, though high D levels are non-symptomatic for the majority, for a few of us, it makes us ill

I'm now 100% sure, so, no D for a couple of weeks and retest and take it from there

Thank you

Alps

[knitwitty]

Just a thought, as you have high antibodies and thus Hashimoto's you may have low stomach acid which may make it difficult for you to absorb nutrients like Vitamin D even when you are taking supplements.

I found that I could only raise my vitamin D when I started using Better You Vitamin D + K2 mouth spray. the vitamin is absorbed through the oral mucosa rather than via the stomach and intestines.

I took 3000iu daily for 3 months and I raised my D to 90 from 50 ish.

I still need 3000iu daily to maintain that level as when I reduced it to 2000iu it fell to around 65.

[Hidden in reply to knitwitty]

Thanks knitwitty

I use nutri d3/k2 in oil drops

Any ideas why D makes my muscles worse please?

Thanks

Alps

[knitwitty in reply to Hidden]

Sorry I'm not sure why it might make your muscles ache, however when I first started taking vitamin D my legs and arms ached but it was the bones that hurt, when I looked that up it was suggested the as bones improved it could cause aches and pains, I no longer get those types of pains, so is it possible that it could be your bones the are hurting?

[Hidden]

Hi All

RoukounasGK posted a very interesting take on Vitamin D supplementation

He researched and found an article by a Dr Coimbra that found that Hashis and D don't mix!

As the D can make autoimmune conditions worse

So, I shall certainly stop supplementing D!

Thanks roukounasGK

Alps

[olga67 in reply to Hidden]

A m e n

[roukounasGK in reply to Hidden]

Hey, what you describe is not entirely true.

First of all, dr Coimbra didn't say that the hashimoto and vitamin D doesn't match with each other. In fact he says the exact opposite, that you should get tons of vitamin D for any autoimmune (more than 10,000 IU per day). But that doesn't seem so good to me, and im having a hard time believing it. He is a single guy that seems to be profiting from our misery and all other scientists are against him. But i really don't know.

What i posted was a research from a non profit medical organisation, which states that vitamin D indeed helps the body immune system. But in hashimoto this means that the autoimmune response will also be increased and thus will cause serious flare ups and make the situation worse.

Though this seems legit, please remember that it is only one study, which was published back in 2006. No other study has suggested any of this, and there are a ton of other research which states how good vitamin D is. So it is not a given that this holds true.

That being said, this seems true to me personally. I am with hashimoto for at least 15 years and i almost never had any symptoms from it. But it was making me furious that so early in my life (back when i was 14) I had to take a pill for the rest of my life. So i tried some supplementation in case I could cut down the pill. I tried cod liver oil and some seeweed. On both of them symptoms have appeared so i stopped them in about a month of using them. The only link i found is that both of them contain vitamin D. Fast forward today, i was prescribed vitamin D supplement due to my great deficiency. So i took them for about 3 months. And then all hell broke loose. Now i have many symptoms to the point where I can't go on with my daily tasks and people. But again this may be a coincidence since as i said many many research states the opposite. Though these months have increased my vitamin D, i am still deficient. And it may be that vitamin D worsens hashimoto at the beginning where the body is not used to so much vitamin D. Please remember that the key to hashimoto is consistency and avoiding any fluctuations. So increasing the vitamin D may be beneficial in the long run but may cause symptoms at start where levels are not yet stable

So i am currently trying to get in range, no matter the symptoms and see where it goes. Based on my endo, in about a month I will most probably be in range and all of my symptoms will be gone. So i am doing a last effort these days. After this month i will give my body another month to get "stabilised" with the new vitamin D levels and try to keep them stable as much as possible. If this doesn't reduce the symptoms at all then i will know for sure that D is not good for hashimoto (at least my hashimoto) and i will cut it down completely.

So, i just posted a research which though is scientific, has many grey areas and noone knows for sure. If you want some more definite feedback please come back to me in about 2 months.

I wish you all the best!

[meme in reply to roukounasGK]

I think you will find that the kelp made your hypo worse. The iodine is bad for it.

[meme in reply to roukounasGK]

Can you post a link to the study you mention please. Thank you.

[roukounasGK in reply to meme]

Go to my post with subject:

"Vitamin D may worsen autoimmune response"

If you don't have hashi, and you are sure of it, then of course no harming in taking supplements.

[Hidden in reply to roukounasGK]

Hi roukounas

I'm so grateful for your post

Previously, everybody said that D should be supplemented till it is superhigh such as 150 or even 200!

So, as you know, I gave D supplementation 2 short trials, andboth times my aches got so much worse

So, no more for a couple of weeks and see how I feel

Thanks again!

Alps

[Hidden in reply to roukounasGK]

Hi roukounas GK

How are you now?

Have you any comments re D supplementation please?

Thanks Alps

[roukounasGK in reply to Hidden]

Hello,

No unfortunately no new feedback on this. However another member of this community did a survey on it in this forum members some time ago. This survey is a small and not from an official Medical staff, so it was deleted from this forum, and is somewhat controversial. But if you are curious on the results, I got them myself you can pm me for more details (since I am not sure if it is allowed to mention them here).

[meme in reply to Hidden]

My understanding is that we need D and with hypo up to a reading of around 200, so not sure why you should stop taking it.

[roukounasGK in reply to meme]

Hey,

regarding the kelp yeah i pretty much think the same. I just stated that these supplements caused me issues.

Regarding the vitamin D, there aren't any definite guidelines. Each Dr has different opinion and no-one knows for sure. For example, you say up to 200 while on my country 100 is the maximum. The optimal here is around 50.

i am not sure is if it has a negative effect on my hashimoto. Once i started supplement many symptoms started. It may be a coincidence, but not sure. I also posted a research which suggests that vitamin D increases the autoimmune response and thus has negative impact on hashimoto. But more research is required.

What i do know for sure is that vitamin D has no positive effect on my hashimoto. I was deficient for years on end and I had no issues whatsoever with my thyroid prior to starting supplements.

That's why if my symptoms don't reduce, i will try to cut off vitamin D supplements.

From your comments though i assume that you take vitamin D supplements. For how long? What are your current levels? Have you noticed any change of symptoms once you started whether good or bad?

[meme in reply to roukounasGK]

I do not have Hashimoto's.

I had lots of odd symptoms and asked for D blood test, it came back 61. It had been 123 a year or so earlier. I joined a Facebook vitamin D group and started supplementing 9000 D a day along with K2 ,boron and Magnesium . That was 4 months ago. My D is now 206 there is no upper range in my area and 50 is considered very low. I have dropped to 6000D and will test again next year. I am symptom free now .

I think as you age your body starts to struggle to maintain it’s self and the problems start to show.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to roukounasGK]

roukounasGK

Regarding the vitamin D, there aren't any definite guidelines. Each Dr has different opinion and no-one knows for sure. For example, you say up to 200 while on my country 100 is the maximum. The optimal here is around 50.

It would seem that 2 different units of measurement are being discussed here - ng/ml and nmol/L.

I always refer to the Vit D Council, the Vit D Society and Grassroots Health.

Between them they recommend the following levels

40-60 ng/ml or

100-150 nmol/L

depending on what unit of measurement a person's lab/country uses.

From the Vit D Council: vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

The Vitamin D Council suggests that a level of 50 ng/ml is the ideal level to aim for.

From the Vit D Society: vitamindsociety.org/

Maintain your Vitamin D level

between 100 – 150 nmol/L

From Grassroots Health: grassrootshealth.net/projec...

What do scientists say is the target amount? 48 world-wide vitamin D researchers agree it is 40-60 ng/ml (100-150 nmol/L).

So Hidden when you said above

Previously, everybody said that D should be supplemented till it is superhigh such as 150 or even 200!

You can see that 150nmol/L is not superhigh, it is within the range recommended by those 3 respected authorities on Vit D, and yours is 69 nmol/L or 27.6 ng/ml.

[Hidden in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you seasidesusie for your points - all noted

However, as per my reply to bantam12 just now

Aren't we hypos always told to go by how we feel and not rely on our numbers?

So, I've tried D supplementation and it has definitely mabe me worse

Thanks

Alps Holiday

[bantam12 in reply to meme]

Some people cannot tolerate VitD supplements, there is no way I could ever get my level up to 200, my levels are very low and that is where my body seems to be happiest, if I supplement I become very unwell.

[Hidden in reply to bantam12]

Bantam12

I totally agree with you!

Twice, I have tried high (for me) D supplementation and felt terrible

So, it's not for me

So, I now plan on taking NO D at all for 2 weeks, see how I feel, then take it from there

After all, Isn't this, for those among us who are hypo, the way we view TSH?

That is, we absolutely don't go by the numbers, but on how we feel?

Apparently D, being fat soluble, is stored in the body and takes a long time to get used up (if not supplemented)

Thank you for sharing your view

Can you either post here or PM me with your current D levels, where you say you feel fine please?

Thanks again

Alps

[bantam12 in reply to Hidden]

Lowest level I had was 12, highest last summer I think was 50 but I usually hover around 30. I don't get any symptoms so I leave well alone.

[Hidden in reply to bantam12]

Thank you bantam12

That's great you feel ok at 30

Which, according to medichecks anything

Under 30 is "deficient"

30-50 is "insufficient"

Any 50+ is sufficient

I was at 69 early September, so I feel I can let it drop to under 50 and see

So, I certainly won't take D for 2 weeks, test, then decide what to do

Thanks again

Alps

[BLipe]

My wife developed muscle pain about 18 months after taking a statin for cholesterol. It works by lowering the liver's output of CoQ-a which is the precursor to CoQ-10. CoQ-10 is integral to repairing muscle. She started taking 300mg of CoQ-10 twice a day and her muscles recovered. She cut back to 300mg once a day. I hope this helps.

[Hidden in reply to BLipe]

Thanks Blipe

Sorry to hear your wife had muscle pains with statins (very common)

But good to hear she recovered with the help of co q 10

I have tried 500 co q 10 for a week a long time ago, to no avail

Thanks again

Alps

[Hidden]

Hi All

Thanks all for all your pointers

Today my muscles are the achiest they have ever been

I absolutely put that down to my D supplementation over these last 3 days

Sunday 1000iu

Monday 2000iu

Tuesday 2000iu

Previously, I was taking about 600iu daily

I'm so glad that I found roukounasGK's post that said that D and Hashi's don't mix!

As D can compromise autoimmunity sometimes

So, for sure, I shall not take any more supplemental D, and, as D is fat-stored in the body, I shall give it a couple of weeks and then retest

Thanks

Alps Holiday

[Hidden]

Hi All

Does anybody know how long it will take for my D levels to drop to say, 50 please?

I understand spare D is stored in bodyfat, so I guess it will be a slow process?

My last D suplementation was on Tuesday at 2000iu

I was taking 600 iu daily for a long time now and my last D level was 69 (50-150) on 20 September

But took 1000iu D3 on Sunday

And 2000iu D3 on monday and 2000 D2 on Tuesday

Then stopped because my muscle aches were terrible!

No D after that, even from food

Thank you for any answers

Alps Holiday