Vitamin D /k4 dosage

[Lorlei]

I would like some opinions on vit d dosing,I had been taking capsules which made no difference to my levels ,I think I was not absorbing it as my levels actually went down.

I have since been applying transdermal vit d3 oil @ 2.5ml also 2 drops vit d3 @ 1.000iu with mk4 @ 200mcg. daily.

I haven't been tested since starting the transdermal route of only a few weeks so I have no idea how much is being absorbed,just wondered if I am overdoing it especially with the mk4.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

I had been taking capsules which made no difference to my levels ,I think I was not absorbing it as my levels actually went down.

How much vitamin D were you taking as capsules

[Lorlei in reply to SlowDragon]

I was taking 2000 along with magnesium and it didn't do anything

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Lorlei]

Well that’s a low dose for a thyroid patient

We frequently need higher dose than average person

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via NHS private testing service when supplementing

vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function.

There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7. One spray = 1000iu

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with hashimoto’s we frequently need higher dose than average

Vitamin D and thyroid disease

grassrootshealth.net/blog/t...

Vitamin D may prevent Autoimmune disease

newscientist.com/article/23...

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Lorelei

Vit K2

There are several forms of vitamin K2 and the two we are interested in are MK4 and MK7. You may find the following helpful.

Difference between different forms of K2 article:

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

orawellness.com/whats-best-...

MK4 has a short life-span., it has a half life of about 1.5 hours and needs multiple doses during the day when supplementing.

MK7 has a half life of about 72 hours, so a once daily dose is enough. So it makes more sense to supplement with MK7.

K2-MK7 comes in two forms. I'm not good with scientific explanations but put simply these are - All-Trans form and Cis form.

All-Trans form v Cis form:

The recommended amount of K2-MK7 is 90-100mcg for up to 10,000iu D3. The best form of K2-MK7 is the All-Trans form rather than the Cis form. The All-Trans form is the bioactive form, the Cis form is inactive (a bit like methylfolate is the bioactive form of folic acid).

There's lots of information available but mainly seems to be on sites selling supplements so I wont link to them, but the message is:

"Since trans-isomer MK-7 are more readily used by our body, they are considered more bioactive. Many K2 ingredients have a mixture of cis and trans isomers, depending on how well they are produced. You’ll want to look for K2-MK7 supplements with a high percentage of trans-isomer MK-7, ideally 100%."

The Cis form is cheaper and is what many K2-MK7 supplements use but they don't tell you this.

The All-Trans form can be available as liquid drops, eg Vitabay Organics, or capsule, eg VegaVero. I have used both, they are available from Amazon and maybe other places.

MK7 is fat soluble so should be taken with some dietary fat - traditional English breakfast maybe, or other meal containing fat.

with mk4 @ 200mcg. daily.

Some studies suggest that an effective dose of MK4 is 45mg per day divided into 3 x 15mg doses.

Studies show that an effective dose of MK7 is 100-180mcg daily which can be taken in one dose.

So if you are taking 200mcg of MK4 daily chances are it will have little effect.

[Lorlei in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you SeasideSusie that was very informative, I tried mk7 years ago and it made me feel ill,I don't know what type it was, I also couldn't take a calcium supplement because it had mk7 in it so I am trying mk4 to which I have not had any reaction but that might be the low dose. I will up the dose and see what happens.

thanks

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Lorlei]

Lorlei

OK, so in that case I would gradually increase the dose but because of it's short half life I'd multi-dose. Maybe add another 200mcg so 2 x 200mcg daily for a while, see how it goes, if all OK add a 3rd dose. See how that goes then if necessary you can increase each dose gradually.

I'm just wondering if it's the active ingredient or the excipients that you reacted to. Maybe look for as clean a supplement as possible (not always easy though ).

[Lorlei in reply to SeasideSusie]

I don't know why mk7 made me ill when so many do well with it ,If I could find a clean mk7 I would give it another go in the mean time I will increase mk4 gradually as you advised but if 45mg is the ideal dose then there is a long way to go.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Lorlei]

but if 45mg is the ideal dose then there is a long way to go.

I think there was another study that was looking at a lower dose. Unfortunately I don't save everything I look at and as I'm fine with K2-MK7 I've no need to save anything about MK4.

You could look at Vitamaze liquid MK7 which is just olive oil and MK7, you just take as many drops as you need - 5 drops = 100mcg

amazon.co.uk/Menaquinone-Al...?

These Vegavero tablets just have MK7, rice flour and capsule shell but take one alternate days as they're 200mcg tablets:

amazon.co.uk/VEGAVERO%C2%AE...?

Both of those are the all trans form of MK7.