Levthyroxene and taking Vit D?

[Edwi]

I take 150 mcg levthyroxene per day and I'm mainly ok on that, but recently have felt some symptoms of hypothyroid, though a recent test TSH .57 T4 17.4 is well within the normal range. ( I had really bad labyrinthitis in July and had to take stemetil for 6/7 weeks and I suspect it affected my absorption of thyroxene, long after I'd stopped taking it.) Recent blood tests showed my Vit D at 43 so my GP advised taking a vit D supplement. I have a good liquid Vit D3 and advised to take 5 drops daily 5000iu. But when I take it, it seems to give me a sort of agitated sensation...almost like being hyperthyroid. Is this a common reaction?

[Hibs1]

Are you taking k2 and magnesium as well as vitamin d?

You need to take your d and k2 at the same meal with good fats, 14gms, at breakfast or lunch as vit d is the sun shine vitamin and can disturb sleep. If drops are you putting them under the tongue. Are there any added ingredients that could affect you? You could drop to three of these drops for a week and then up them to 5,000 again!

[Edwi in reply to Hibs1]

I've been putting the drops in water. Is it better to put under the tongue? I've been taking

Vit D at lunchtime, a light meal of soup, hummus or cheese, fruit, oatcakes, a cup of tea with milk. Is that enough fat? I do take magnesium...at breakfast, along with fish oil and B12.

I also take iron, fish oil and an iodine supplement at lunchtime, then zinc and fish oil with evening meal. I don't take k2 but will start taking it. Thanks very much for your helpful reply.

[Hibs1 in reply to Edwi]

Under the tongue rather than in water. What mag are you taking at breakfast? That should be plenty of fat. K2 and d are fatty vitamins hence taking with fat. Unless you have problems digesting you would be better with softgels of d, dr best brand are good. K2 in softgels too pharma -nord k2 pearls. Both of these you can get from dolphinfitness free delivery.

[Edwi in reply to Hibs1]

I take Mag Glycinate one tab of 200mg at breakfast. Usually with cereal and milk or full fat yoghourt.

Will switch D3 drops to under the tongue. It's by Nutri...was prescribed by the chiropracter I go to. She does kiniesiology 'muscle testing' to see which supplements to recommend. ( She'd said I am Vit D deficient the day before I got GP blood results back...and indeed at 43 my Vit D was deficient) I emailed her to tell her about my reaction to Vit D and she's really surprised...she'd expected it to give me more energy. So I'll persevere and add K2.

Thanks again!

[Hibs1 in reply to Edwi]

Glycinate is better at night. What brand us that? Sometimes the amount of magnesium it says in container is confusing

[Edwi in reply to Hibs1]

It's Nutri Advanced brand. I will switch to taking with evening meal. The tabs are 100mg. It does say to take 2 tabs 2 or 3 times per day. I'll up it to 2 with evening meal.

Thanks!

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Edwi]

Edwi

Your D3 should tell you if it's meant to be taken sublingually or in water.

Is your liquid D3 an oil based liquid? If so that may be enough fat for it to be absorbed, if not then the fattiest meal of the day or some dietary fat like butter, full fat yogurt or cheese.

K2 doesn't have to be taken at the same time as D3. It is needed as a cofactor but like D3 it is fat soluble so also needs fat to be absorbed. D3 and K2 will compete for the fat in the meal if taken at the same time, so if they are both oil based liquids or softgels that should be fine, but if not then they are best taken at different times, each with their own fat.

I also take iron, fish oil and an iodine supplement at lunchtime

Iron needs to be taken 2 hours away from other supplements (and 4 hours away from Levo) as it will affect their absorption.

Why are you taking iodine? Have you tested and found to be deficient? If not we shouldn't take it. Iodine used to be used to treat overactive thyroid and can make hypothyroidism worse, particularly so when Hashi's is present.

[Edwi in reply to SeasideSusie]

I am hypothyroid because of both sub-total thyrodectomey 40 years ago (Graves disease), then radioactive iodine treatment 30 years ago as my thyroid was still producing too much thyroxene and I was hyper again.

I have taken 150 mg levthyroxene for the last 30 years and mainly ok on that though occasional blips.

I don't usually take iodine but was prescribed by an alternative practitioner a week ago, along with Vit D and iron.

I'm trying to manage what seem to be hypothyroid symptoms which have come on I suspect as a result of taking stemetil for labyrinthitis. I didn't have these symptoms before the labyrinthitis and stemetil treatment, so it seems to me that must have caused it.

I've been back and forth at the GP getting thyroid function blood tests and ferritin folate B12 and Vit D tests. But they only test TSH and T4. My last test was TSH .57 and T4 17.4, which of course looks fine! But I'm still getting symptoms of fatigue, sore chest, muscle weakness. He's asked me to repeat the thyroid function test...and to take a Vit D supplement. If my test shows any change he'll refer me to endocrinology.

I see the chiropracter who does kineisiology muscle testing as a way of diagnosing which supplements I need to take...and her diagnosis of low Vit D and low iron was the same as my blood results. She also recommended the iodine.

My D3 doesn't say how the drops are to be taken, but I guess they are meant to be taken under the tongue. I'll switch to that. Its base is capric triglycerides. Maybe that's an oil? I'll look it up.

Thanks very much for your helpful reply.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Edwi]

Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides are usually used topically

healthline.com/health/capry...

Did the practioner who recommended taking iodine actually do an iodine test first? I understand that the best test is a non-loading urine test. Iodine is easily available in food in the UK - milk, yogurt, haddock, cod, scampi - all good sources of iodine - and it's not common to have iodine deficiency here, which is why it's important to test before supplementing. As I said, it can make hypothyroidism worse.

My last test was TSH .57 and T4 17.4, which of course looks fine!

Yes the TSH looks fine but we can't comment on the FT4 without the reference range as they vary from lab to lab. With my NHS lab it would be over range as it's 7-17, but we also see here 9-19, 11-23, 12-22 and others.

Doctors don't know, because they're not taught much about nutrients, but there are important cofactors needed when taking D3 as recommended by the Vit D Council

vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc.

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds if taking tablets/capsules/softgels, no necessity if using an oral spray.

Magnesium helps D3 to work. We need Magnesium so that the body utilises D3, it's required to convert Vit D into it's active form. So it's important we ensure we take magnesium when supplementing with D3.

Magnesium comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds if taking tablets/capsules, no necessity if using topical forms of magnesium.

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

drjockers.com/best-magnesiu...

afibbers.org/magnesium.html

Check out the other cofactors too (some of which can be obtained from food).

If you are still getting symptoms then I would consider doing a full thyroid/vitamin panel

TSH

FT4

FT3

Thyroid antibodies

Vit D

B12

Folate

Ferritin

We have recommended private labs who do all of these as one test bundle, either by fingerprick or for an extra cost you can have venous blood draw:

Medichecks Thyroid Check ULTRAVIT medichecks.com/thyroid-func... You can use code THYROIDUK for a 10% discount on any test not on special offer

or

Blue Horizon Thyroid Check PLUS ELEVEN bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/t...

Both tests include the full thyroid and vitamin panel. They are basically the same test but with the following small differences:

For the fingerprick test, Blue Horizon requires 1 x microtainer of blood (0.8ml), Medichecks requires 2 x microtainers (total 1.6ml)

Blue Horizon includes Total T4 (can be useful but not essential). Medichecks doesn't include this test.

B12 - Blue Horizon does Serum B12. Medichecks does Active B12.

Serum B12 shows the total B12 in the blood. Active B12 shows what's available to be taken up by the cells. You can have a reasonable level of Serum B12 but a poor level of Active B12. (Personally, I would go for the Active B12 test.)

If you supplement with Biotin, or a B complex containing it (B7), it's recommended to leave it off for 7 days before doing any blood tests as it can give false results. It's a good idea to leave it off whoever is doing the test as many labs use biotin in the testing procedure.

[Edwi in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply.

I'm having a thyroid function test on the NHS next week and will ask if I can have more than the standard TSH and T4 test. If it's not available, I'll go down the private testing route as you suggested.

The range of T4 used by my GP's lab is 12 to 22, so my 17.4 again looks fine.

I didn't have an iodine test done using urine...it was my alternative practitioner's test using kiniesiology and the supplement she suggested was tyrosine with iodine. I do eat a lot of iodine rich foods, so I'll do some more research before taking it.

My Serum B12 was 703 in last week's blood test, which seemed okay. I do take a B12 supplement. But I've never had the B12 Acive test. I'll ask if that's available.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply so generously. Your detailed reply is so helpful.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Edwi]

Your FT4 is only 54% through. The aim of a treated hypo patient generally is for TSH to be 1 or lower with FT4 and FT3 in the upper part of their ranges if that is where you feel well.

If you eat a lot of Iodine rich foods then I doubt that you are Iodine deficient. I would definitely do a non-loading Iodine test. Genova Diagnostics do one, you can use ThyroidUK as your "practioner" as Genova don't deal direct with the public. Details here:

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

"Urine Iodine Test:

Specimen requirements: Urine

Cost: £71.00

Order Code: END25

Turnaround time: 5 - 10 days

Iodine is an essential trace element, vital for healthy thyroid function. Adequate levels are required to enable the production of T3 and T4 thyroid hormones, whilst also being required in other areas of health.

Deficiencies can lead to impaired heat and energy production, mental function and slow metabolism. Urinei odine is one of the best measures of iodine status. This test is not performed as a loading test, but can be used to establish existing levels or to monitor iodine supplementation."

*

Article about flaws in the loading Iodine test:

zrtlab.com/blog/archive/fla...

*

I'm not sure that the NHS offers the Active B12 test routinely, but you can do it as a fingerprick test with Medichecks if you wish

medichecks.com/vitamin-b12-...

You can use code THYROIDUK for 10% off any test not on special offer.

If you are taking a B12 supplement then test will reflect that and show if you are taking an appropriate amount. For a baseline B12 level to show what you ae holding on to then you need to be off your B12 supplement t for 4-5 months.

When taking B12 we need to also take a good quality B Complex to balance all the B vitamins.

[Edwi in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks very much. Really helpful.