NDT+T3 or NDT+LEVO ?

[adin]

I have a dilemma, today I received the labs for my 3,5 grains Thiroyd-Thai.ndt. I am on ndt for about 3 months, initially I was on 125mcg levo+12,5T3 but not doing very well. The values are not very good, ft4 is low 11,90 (11,97-21) and ft3 is 5,64 (3,1-6,8). I split the ndt in two doses. If I raise to 4gr. I get palpitations/extrabits , anxiety and I don't feel well. On 3,5 grains the discomforts disappear but I feel low (hoarse voice, dry hair, etc.). So I'm stuck in there. Looks like I need something extra but I don't know what, T3 or levo. I tried to add 6,2 mcg T3 in the mix but that puts pressure on the heart. If I add some levo I get palpitations/extrabits , anxiety.

Any suggestions are welcomed.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Have you tried 3 and 3/4 grains?

How are your nutrient levels?

[adin in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi SeasideSusie, yes I tried 3 and 3/4 grains but same situation like on 4. Even on 3,5 grains I get palps and irregular beats but rarely. I thought about reducing it to 3 gr. and adding 12.5 mcg levo.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to adin]

The fixed amount of T4:T3 in NDT doesn't suit everyone and sometimes a combination of Levo and T3 gives the flexibility to find the perfect doses. You could experiment, your FT4 is below range and you may well be better with it in range so see how it goes with a reduction in NDT and adding some Levo.

[jamesal0]

How old are Adin, and have you had a thyroidectomy

James

[adin in reply to jamesal0]

52 old I am. I had RAI in 2012, twice due to Graves and that left without functional thyroid.

[jamesal0 in reply to adin]

@Adin I'm 54y old 6 foot, 92kg male with scared thyroid. I've taken NDT for about 4 years and Levo for 3 years prior. The things I feel we men need is as follows.

Testosterone - you need upper range. Bottom of the range I couldn't convert T4.

B12 - you need to inject B12. You stop absorbing it from food. you need to max out the range. Brian fog without it.

Exercise 45min or more perday swimming, running, weight training etc

Levo. I need a base load of T4 and I use 50mcg Levo (4am)

NDT . I then take a variable amount of NDT 25mg -60mg as the day goes on.

I get a blood test from time to to keep my GP happy but basically dont worry about the results. I personally believe NDT and to some extent Levo should be driven by symptoms not blood tests and should be adjusted daily - as diabetics adjust insulin daily.

I use tingles in the feet/hands/tongue/joint pain/palps/midday temps/nails/hair to drive thyroid meds.

Summer I take less NDT, winter take slightly more, jogging/running heaps more, sitting on my bum watching a movie - less. etc

I believe you need T3 to make T3. Hence throwing more T4 at someone often doesn't fix things.

Taking too much NDT is just as bad as not taking enough. The symptoms of not getting enough thyroid are similar to those of getting too much.

If I was you, I'd consider having a rest from NDT for a 3-4 days put up with the bla. Then start with 50mcg Levo and 60mg NDT and slowly add NDT until you get a good midday temps.

Good luck

James

[adin in reply to jamesal0]

Interesting words, I thought they(ndt+levo) were not doing well together. I read on a W-site that it is not good to mix them bcs. reverse T3 goes up. On the other hand, I don't feel good with an ft4 so small. How you take your hormones, all in the morning or you split it?

[jamesal0 in reply to adin]

50mcg Levo when I get up for a wee anytime between 2 and 4am. Then 60mg NDT pill broken in quarters and nibble on them between 8 and 11am. The NDT dilates the arteries/lungs prior to lunch time 45 min swim. Don't worry about food and NDT. It actually helps spread the hit out over a few hours.

[Aurealis]

I wonder if you need to give it more time on the current dose before increasing, or increase more gradually, perhaps using alternating doses as suggested by SeasideSusie . The quickest way to find out if you need more T3 or Levo is to increase T3 because it is shortacting and you will feel the benefits quickly, also will come out of your system quicker if it’s the wrong thing to do. I’m fine with T4 below range as long as my T3 is right for me. We are all different, so follow your instinct.

[adin in reply to Aurealis]

As I said, I tried to add 6,2 mcg T3 in the morning(with my morning ndt dose-2 grains) but that puts pressure on the heart and elevated the pulse. I also, feel pain in my left arm and chest. On the other hand I have more energy and the wrists are more mobile.

[Aurealis in reply to adin]

I would be taking the T3 in three doses to reduce strain on heart and try to stabilise levels.

[adin in reply to Aurealis]

Hmm, it's a good idea, the problem is that I cannot divide 6,25mcg t3 in equal doses. Maybe I could take the t3 just with 1 grain not with 2 (in the morning) and the rest of 2 grain to take it in the afternoon.

[Aurealis in reply to adin]

You may find that helps. I prefer my NDT in three doses, 1, 0.25, 0.25. It’s not the cheapest way, but it’s best for me. Three doses per day gives me much better sleep than two doses, and I take T3 with each dose of NDT too.

[silverfox7]

FT4 does fall when taking any form of T3 but usually not that far. I’m also on Thai NDT but Thyroid S. I did a lot of reading and searching before I started though I started my thyroid journey on NDT many many years ago but then couldn’t source it but tried again 4-5 years ago now but I did notice that the two brands didn’t seen tile be interchangeable. I started on Thyroid S and was fine but before I had spent a lot of time ticking boxes with T4! I reversed my conversion problems by testing Vit D, B12, Folate and ferritin and getting and keeping them all optimal and the changeover went very smoothly and the NDT suited me once I was on the correct dose for me. The only thing I was concerned about was the list of fillers etc so I then tried the one you are taking and felt dreadful. I had extreme heachaches for two days so stopped. Not I don’t consider that to be a proper trial as I didn’t try to see if I needed a difference dose or anything. I’d already got my Thyroid S so went back to that. So yes I couldn’t get on with both of them which my digging around had suggested but I can’t go as for as to say I gave the Thiroyd a proper go either but may be you need to try the alternative and see if that suits you better. Many take the TR Man say they are good on that as well. If you are going to try the alternative then go for a smaller package until you are happy in making a switch.

[Hidden in reply to silverfox7]

TR TMan has been discontinued. Some sellers still have it in supply so continue to ship for now, but they will run out eventually. Only Thiroyd and Thyroid-S are still being manufactured. So it might not be a good idea to try TR even if you can get hold of it, knowing that it won't be around much longer.

[silverfox7 in reply to Hidden]

Whoops! Wasn’t aware-thank you!

[Hidden in reply to silverfox7]

It happened recently

[1dolly]

Thiroyd and Thyroid S seemed to have changed formulations this year, possibly due to price of ingredients from China and a lot of people have said they are no longer effective.

[adin in reply to 1dolly]

Then we don't have too many options left, we are forced to return to the levo.

[Hidden in reply to adin]

No, there is always synthetic T3, to take with T4, combo drugs such as Novothyral, and supplements such as Thyrogold.

[Hidden in reply to 1dolly]

I an unaware of any recent changes, but Thyroid-S is still the same (my batch expires 02/21). I doubt we'd get any info re reformulations from the manufacturers as that kind of info apparently is proprietary in Thailand (just like the list of inactive ingredients). But have there been actual reports of Thyroid-S and/or Thiroyd working less well lately....like there were when Armour was reformulated back in 2009 and other brands (Erfa, NP, Naturethroid) shortly after...?

[1dolly]

I take Thiroyd and it has changed from batch 1500057 and seems much less effective.