Reducing NDT because of Progesterone

[Jollypolly]

Does ANYONE have experience of embarking on Progesterone cream and then finding they had to reduce their NDT ?

I was on 2.25 grains...though still not feeling really well...

Plus Adrenavive ...375 mg...

Then last June started on Progesterone...Serenity / 20-1 Cream...

Felt SO WELL... it couldn’t sleep ..at all..some nights...but didn’t feel hyper...

Slowly over two months I reduced NDT as I’d read Progesterone can lead to the need to reduce or even cut out your NDT.....

Finally I stopped NDT ..and Adrenavive ..altogether...in an effort to get to sleep.

Was not hyper feeling at all...was very odd....

I soon started to feel terrible...and since October been trying to build up my thyroid...

But with great difficulty.

I’ve cracked the sleep problem with an amazing sleep aid..a ZEEZ SLEEP PEBBLE...

HIGHLY REXOMMENDED...

BUT EVERY TIME I GO ABOVE 3/4 grain my temps become unstable...

And at the moment I don’t feel well at all...

Recently I’ve had short period of stable temps on 3/4 grain..but low , at 96.6 and 96.7.../ 35.9

Am on Adrenavive 375 mg again...but feeling pretty wobbly and anxious...

HAS ANYONE ANY THOUGHTS. ? Tried Dr Ps office but phone line is dead,

Should I worry about low temp and just keep things stable on 3/4 grain...although low temp...

And also I stopped prog cream about a week ago as I felt so awful..

And felt it was that...though I only take 1/16 spoon once daily...

Should I restart that ?

Sorry this is a bit of a complicated tale...and so hope some one has something helpful to give me .

Could it be that 3/4 grain is right..while on Progesterone ?

Etc.etc 🙄

[BadHare]

Without testing, you

only have how you feel to go on. If you feel bad, there's something awry, or something else in the mix.

You've had a huge drop of 2/3 NDT from 2.25 to 0.75 grains, so I'd guess that's insufficient if your temperature is low & you don't feel well. I've done a fair bit of jiggling up & down but only made myself ill initially, by swapping ratios or NDT & T3 too drastically, or if I've had to ration NDT.

I take 20-25% more THs in winter than I need in summer, so perhaps you needed more to help you feel better whilst the weather's been cold, but stayed on your sumer dose.

I've reduced my overall dose of THs by 1/6 in the past year with improving my diet &

supplementation. As the changes take a while to be effective, I'm unsure

exactly which particular supplements have allowed me to do this, or

everything I've done in general.

I took prescribed synthetic HRT prior to starting thyroid hormones, then tried

bioidentical which didn't agree with me as much. I've read several posts stating OTC progesterone creams would require an entire jar a day to make a difference, though that would depend entirely on how much is required for a good balance, & be entirely individual as all our hormone & general health issues are.

[Jollypolly]

Thanks Bed Hare

It’s so difficult...I’ve tried again and again to raise NDT but then temps go awry..and just very lately been feeling awful internally..something hard to describe.

As for your comment re prog cream..I can only say I’m as sure as I can be that the scraping I use does affect me considerably ...well..I think it’s that..as I say..so hard to know.m

Yes ..I need to get tests done...after holiday I will...but no practitioner to talk to about it all...do you know anyone good?

[mischa in reply to Jollypolly]

Hi My guess is that your adrenals are suffering and that is why you cannot raise your NDT and it would explain the uneasy/uncomfortable feelings.

[Jollypolly in reply to mischa]

Hi and thanks...yes..that’s what I thought but it didn’t quite make sense.

I think I’ve cracked the problem actually. I’d actually reduced prog cream to almost nothing over recent weeks and months even,,an drecently stopped as I felt it was THAT disagreeing with me.

Then I googled up the subject of Progesterone and thyroid, and read a short article by a leading US pharmacist ..merely summing up what I had known and read before bit forgotten the significnce of ..namely that you NEEd estrogen/ progesterone Balance for the thyroid to work correctly. Light has dawned and I realise I had concluded the OPPOSITE Of the truth !🙄so last night re embarked on a proper dose of prog cream ..!

I am always amazed at how easy it is for a reasonably intelligent person with a functioning brain can STILL forget something so recently known and understood! I find I have to keep reminding myself of the basics...probably everyone is the same .

Thanks anyway.

[Nico101 in reply to Jollypolly]

I'm very new to all the thyroid stuff - but I have been on progesterone cream (inc Serenity, which Dr P approved) and found it very strong. I'm one of those 'if a little is good for you more will be better' kind of people (obviously I'm having to rein that in now I have adrenal and thyroid issues). When I started the cream I followed the instructions for a pea-sized amount and within 2 weeks my hair and skin were very greasy and i had a few pimples. Reduced it to half that (more a petit pois) and the greasiness faded.

Good to know it affects thyroid meds - I hadn't considered that.

[Jollypolly in reply to Nico101]

Thanks, Nicole.

For a straightforward, simple read I’d recommend the article I stumbled on yesterday, while searching for answers.

WHAT ROLE DOES PROGESTERONE PLAY IN THYROID FUNCTION...

Bella Magazine

Google in that lot and you’ll get it.

Don’t make the mistake I did of thinking you need a scrape ..almost nil ..of the cream, as if you have estrogen dominance you definitely need some...

[danym in reply to Jollypolly]

so now are you still using the progesterone cream, but just in a lower dose?

[Jollypolly in reply to danym]

Well I’ve just restarted Progesterone after an 8 day break...

WAS taking 1/16 of spoon x1 daily..for quite a long while...

I now believe THAT is why I was increasingly unwell...

So have restarted at 1/8 spoon x1 daily..which is what Dr P suggested ages ago.

I’ll tell you what made me think that was too much for me some long while ago...I’m on low dose bioientical estrogen patch but the added Progesterone brought about rather uncomfortable dryness..

So that made me think it must be too much..and I cut down.

I’ll just have to deal with that symptom and stick with the 1/8 spoon to see how it goes..I think.

[danym in reply to Jollypolly]

thank you, what are you taking the progesterone for? I have endometriosis and thinking of trying it.

[Jollypolly in reply to danym]

I’m 70 later this year, but when 45 had total hysterectomy FOR endometriosis.

I do believe I could have avoided surgery and years of some difficulties has I known about progesterone.

If you don’t have then already, is strongly advise getting..cheap from Amazon..second hand..

Dr Lee s books on HORMONES MADE SIMPLE

AND

WHAT YOUR DOXTOR MAY NOT TELL YOU ABOUT MENOPAUSE...

ALSO WORTH GETTING ...AS WELL ! ..yes really..!

Dr Shirley Bonds book on NATURAL PROGESTERONE.

THESE BOOKS ENDORSE EACH OTHER AND HELP TO GICE YOU THE WHOLE PIXTURE..

Also....read all the stuff on the Wellsprings Serenity site.

If you do all of this..and it will cost you very little money but a little time..

You’ll be well informed and I’m sure will help you to know what you should do..

Of course..one other thing is..

Hormone testing...estrogen,Progesterone...and even the adrenals ,If stress is an issue.

Are you Hashimotos ?

I am...I have Adrenal Fatigue....which really complicates things...

And estrogen dominance..they all act together.

One last thing..

The FIRST THING I’d do is to read the article I suggested to someone before you..

Look this up

What role does Progesterone play in Thyroid function...

Presuming Thyroid is an issue for you , also.

Hope all this helps.

[danym in reply to Jollypolly]

thank you very much, yes, I'm hypo with hashimoto after the birth of my daughter 5 years ago. I have endometriosis since I was in my 20s and had 3 surgeries to remove cysts and endometriosis, tried the menopause inducing shots, birth control pills, i was ok after the birth of my first and second kids, but now 3 years later I can feel the endo pain coming back. I'm 37 and would like to avoid hysterectomy. I went to my obgyn and he did an ultrasound, so thanks god the cysts are not back, but since switching to NDT (armour) my pain has been worse. I noticed if I don't take it one day the pain almost disappears, but I can not stay without thyroid meds. My dr suggested a progesterone birth control pill, but I started reading about bio identical progesterone and would like to try that one. Do you think I should add also bio identical estrogen?

[Jollypolly in reply to danym]

Hi again...ooh...don’t want to pontificate on things I’m not expert in !

Things I know though...

Do not take a progesterone birth control pill...these are bad news, so I understand from all I’ve read. They aren’t biodentixal progesterone but progestsgens..and aren’t good for you ..

First and foremost order the books I mentioned..you don’t have to read every word..they are all well set out and clearly separated into topics...mix and match and read and re read and keep by you to reference at any time.. they are tremendously helpful on these subjects,n

If you have no adrenal issues..stress etc

You could go on Dr Bonds website and contact her..though retired she gives some consultations,...she wouldn’t allow me that..said I was too complicated ! Also....she doesn’t agree with adrenal cortex as a treatment . So really no good for me...as I must have this for my problems..and have every reason to believe it’s fine...Dr P himself take it..and progesterone.

So.....

Read that article online...only toe minutes to read...

Order all three books,..read as much as possible from them over a day or two..

Consider appt with Dr Bond...

Also..

She has friends, / allies in the British menopause society,..and I can’t see why you can’t ask your GP for a referral there,,,it is NHS I believe,,,or a private visit.

Bu t whatever you do..don’t use progestin ..NHS fond of this...no good, as you’ll see when you read.

[danym in reply to Jollypolly]

thank you, i will look for the books, I'm in the US, so I would need to find someone here. did your hysterectomy help with the endo pain, did it come back?

[Jollypolly in reply to danym]

Oh..hello USA !

Well Dr Lams books are American..Dr Bond is English...but it’s still worth getting her book...but definitely prioritise Dr Lam....

De P is an English doctor...

Ok,yes..definitely...but I don’t think I’d have chosen surgery if I could have avoided it...losing my ovaries means I can’t get ovarian cancer , bit it’s caused me problems with intimate dryness and also easily caught cystitis..

I very rarely get that now as I’ve learned how to avoid it...and if necessary I just use a little vaginal moisturiser,,,,

But the books all say you should be able to dissipate the endometriosis if you use progesterone...I reckon you could do with professional help...easier for you in USA..very much harder in U K I can tell you !

[danym in reply to Jollypolly]

the books recommend bio identical progesterone, right? would a regular obgyn work with that? or do i need to find a special dr?

[Jollypolly in reply to danym]

No..as you have hashimotos..you DEFINITELY need to find a thyroid friendly doctor....one who understands adrenals and sex hormones too..you neeed a Thyroid friendly hormone expert ..let the xo unity guide you perhaps..I don’t know who or where but you have options in USA.we have almost none in UK ! So be thankful and search ! Of course..it all costs money..and that can be a sticking point...I know..it is for me...makes things twice as complicated.

Hope you can get sorted. .all the best.