Hi Everyone.
I am taking 150mg T4 and 10mg of T3 with gp’s private prescription and endo’s blessing and have felt much better for some time. Last week l got chest pains and gp had an ECG and bloods done. GP called me yesterday to say the bloods are a bit high and if l get any more chest pain l must go to A&E immediately. Can anyone tell me if the T3 could be responsible. I have another appointment on Wednesday. Many thanks
Without knowing your results and without knowing which bloods are "a bit high" it is impossible to tell whether your thyroid meds are implicated in the chest pain or not.
Be very careful that you don't talk yourself, or get talked into, giving up your T3. Your doctor would love to cut his drugs budget and taking someone off T3 would save him a lot of money. It may turn out that reducing your T4/Levo might be a better way of fixing your problem - if it is the cause of your pain. But at the moment you have no evidence, so get a copy of the bloods that were done, including the reference ranges.
I just wanted to point out that low iron, low B12, low folate and anaemia can cause chest pain, tachycardia and palpitations. Low nutrients are a common problem amongst people with thyroid disease.
And just to add to those great points, there's so much anti-T3 hype around, that some users can be unconsciously anxious about starting/taking it, that can itself, induce chest pain and raised heart/BP levels.
It doesn’t affect the doctor’s income, just cost to the nhs as a whole.
Yes, I know. But if the doctor runs out of money in his drugs budget I'm sure that his job and his life will be made much more unpleasant by the CCG that holds his purse strings.
I’m not aware of any fine or financial implication, but maybe I am wrong. I just thought it was a slightly misleading statement. Not saying doctors aren’t influenced by prescribing relating to cost under pressure of CCGs to keep within budgets, but in the scheme of things they will be prescribing very costly treatments everyday to people who need them and aren’t going to stop these for their own financial gain.
It’s the CCGs which make these decisions about restricting prescribing.
Hidden
CCG's definitely heavily pressurise medics into not prescribing T3 solely due to cost
We see numerous posts on here where endocrinologists admit to a patient that they need T3, but that they can not prescribe. This is directly against guidelines. If an NHS endocrinologist says you have clinical need you should be prescribed on NHS
Many endocrinologists don't even offer private prescription. Patients just told to "buy online "
Here's one from yesterday
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Yes I wasn’t disputing this
Doctors could and should stand up for patients.
We need more doctors like this one
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
An essential daily medication should not have to be bought online from unknown sources
No I agree
Anyone whose Endocrinologist says just buy online .....give them a copy of this .....
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
I think I am quite lucky that my gp is willing to give me the private prescription. Although the Endo wrote to the gp telling him to add T3 to my repeat prescriptions the gp said that he had to find a reason to give it to me. I know l could have insisted however l know the cost to the NHS of T3 is approx £300 for 28 tablets and l pay less than £40 for 100 tablets from a reputable company. At the moment l can afford to pay this and I feel so much better for it. If prices drop to the NHS or the CCG changes it’s rules then l will discuss it again with my gp. I know many people struggle to get a proper prescription and are forced to buy online and l feel so sorry for them. I should add that l pestered my gp for a very long time before he was willing to let me have the T3.
Obviously if Brexit ever happens this is going to be serious issue for getting T3 from EU
Yes l agree and l asked for a prescription for 200 last time hoping it would be enough to last until the EU issue was sorted out.
I agree, to say someone has a clinical need for a medication and not supply it is not good practice, unethical you could say. My comment was just about the doctor wanting to stop the medication to save himself money. It implied a GP would make a decision such as this for personal gain.
You are legally entitled to printed copies of your blood test results and ranges.
UK GP practices are supposed to offer online access for blood test results. Ring and ask if this is available and apply to do so if possible, if it is you may need "enhanced access" to see blood results.
In reality many GP surgeries do not have blood test results online yet
Alternatively ring receptionist and request printed copies of results. Allow couple of days and then go and pick up.
On almost any dose of T3 TSH will be suppressed, so it's absolutely essential to always test FT3 and FT4
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and fasting. Last Levothyroxine dose should be 24 hours prior to test, (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw). This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)
If/when also on T3, make sure to take last dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test
Good article on why FT3 and FT4 are most important
restartmed.com/tsh-isnt-the...
Low vitamin levels are extremely common, these should be regularly retested.....add vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 results and ranges if you have them
Low iron can cause chest pain
Sorry l wasn’t very clear. The bloods were to check if I’d had a heart attach and whatever it is they look at was raised. I pay for my own T3 with a GP’s prescription from Germany. Hope that makes it a bit clearer.
There is a possibility that your Creatine Kinase was raised. It detects muscle damage. The heart is a muscle and during a heart attack parts of the muscle might die, releasing creatine kinase into the bloodstream as an effect of that.
labtestsonline.org.uk/tests...
[Click on the + signs for more info in the above link.]
According to the above link :
CK occurs in three major forms, called isoenzymes:
CK-MB (found mostly in heart muscle)
CK-BB (found mostly in brain tissue)
CK-MM (found in skeletal muscles)
What isn't clear to me is whether or not the blood test used actually differentiates between these different types of CK.
Note that levels of CK can be high if you are an extreme athlete, and also if you take statins and your muscles are being damaged by the statin.
Also - I have no medical training whatsoever.
In that case, they possibly tested levels of troponin which rise after a heart attack (although I understand there's a new test which may now be out of development and in use, that analyses the level of cardiac myosin-binding protein C, which rises more rapidly and to a higher extent, than troponin.) Tryopin or more accurately, the troponin complex, is a complex of three regulatory proteins integral to muscle contraction in skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle, but not smooth muscle; but the new test has been developed as the tropinin assay has a low sensitivity. In any case, without knowing the level and reference interval, whether you experienced a heart attack or not, or if it connected to T3 usage, remains unknowable.
Hello, I get severe chest pain from gastritis and B12 deficiency. Sometimes I don’t know which one is the cause so I take an Omeprazole and if it gets rid of the chest pain it is gastritis. I started taking apple cider vinegar in the morning as I have SIBO & low stomach acid and it gave me gastritis with severe chest pain! I thought I was going to have a heart attack. My GP even sent me to A&E as I’d had an abnormal ECG in the surgery but A&E couldn’t find anything wrong with me. Worth exploring if it’s not your meds causing it x
How do you take the apple cider vinegar (ACV)?
How much do you take?
When do you take take it in relation to food?
How much water do you dilute it with?
I'm not suggesting that ACV helps everyone (I can't take it myself) but it would be a shame to miss out on something that might help just by changing the way you take it.
Hello - I was taking a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar diluted in water every morning. I tried taking HCI & Pepsin with digestive enzymes previous to this and I had the same reaction. I'm now taking lemon juice & water with quarter teaspoon of creme of tartar and Himalayan pink salt to balance my electrolytes and I seem to be ok with this. Jo x
It's good that you've found something that helps you.
One thing to bear in mind is that taking extra acid in any form - Betaine HCl, ACV or lemon juice - is supposed to substitute for missing stomach acid. So taking it in the morning as a regular thing might be the wrong time and for the wrong reason. The body produces stomach acid in anticipation of food, it doesn't usually produce it when the stomach is empty and you aren't planning to eat immediately.
For ACV or lemon juice, it is best to start with a small amount - say, half a teaspoon - in a small glass of water, and sip it throughout a meal, aining to finish the acid at the same time you finish eating. If you can cope without it making your gut irritated and inflamed then you could raise the dose to one teaspoon. Keep raising the dose by half a teaspoon if you can cope with it, up to a maximum of one tablespoon of the acid per meal. (Some people take up to 2 tablespoons but for someone with gastritis that's probably asking for trouble.)
For a description of the correct way to use Betaine HCl + Pepsin (and just as important - when not to take them) these links are helpful :
healthygut.com/articles/how...
healthygut.com/articles/4-c...
If you take extra acid in water for any reason, use a straw to protect your teeth. At the end of the meal swish your mouth out with plain water (and spit it out, don't swallow it) several times. Clean your teeth an hour after your have finished both the acid and your meal. Since acid temporarily softens tooth enamel you need to allow time for it to harden up again before cleaning your teeth. The idea is
a) not to dilute any stomach acid you do have
b) to neutralise any acidity in your mouth
c) not to strip the enamel off your teeth
That’s interesting. I always have a sore throat and despite 2 cameras up my nose and down my throat they cannot find out why so l have to live with the sore throat. They did try me on omeprazole but it didn’t sort out the throat. As l haven’t had this chest pain before it might not be acid but l will mention it to the GP on Wednesday. Thank you for sharing with me.
Have you ever read up on silent reflux? If your throat is always sore it could be that you have a poorly closing valve between your oesophagus and your stomach and your stomach acid is doing the damage.
webmd.com/heartburn-gerd/gu...
medicalnewstoday.com/articl...
Thanks l have had a look at these . As I’ve already had tests and taken the omeprazole without success I’m not sure l can do anything else. I’ve had the camera down my throat and they found gall stones but nothing else. However if time allows I’ll mention it on Wednesday . Thank you for taking the time to reply.
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