Estradiol contradiction and warning with thyroid replacment therapy
I need your advice please on how Estradiol is contradict with thyroid replacment therapy. I'm on 175mg levothyroxine daily. Long time Hashimoto suffer, 57 years old. My doctor prescribed Estradiol (Climen) for to increas energy level and for depression reduction, but it has so many precisions. Not sure that I have to start it. Please share your experience. Would be the great help. Thank you.
Test result <10. Range <10-28.
This is a link which I hope is helpful. I've lost my faith in doctors in regard to anything hypothyroid and I think the majority on this forum have as well.
verywellhealth.com/estrogen...
I would suggest you get the following tests as most on this forum have lost also faith in doctors. Nowadays they know no clinical symptoms and the symptoms/suffering may be due to low T3 in our bodies. The assumption is the T4 is sufficient.
T4 is levothyroxine and is an inactive thyroid hormone. It has to convert to T3 (liothyronine) the active thyroid hormone and we have millions of T3 receptor cells which need T3 in order for us to function as normal and have no clinical symptoms. (T3 in particular could be prescribed for 'depression)
Rarely is Free T4 and Free T3 tested by the NHS. It seems that the directions to doctors is that TSH and T4 are sufficient for a diagnosis but they aren't.
verywellhealth.com/estrogen...
T3 is required in our millions of T3 receptor cells and brain and heart need the most.
Quite a number of Researchers have found that a combination dose of T3/T4 resolves quite a number of patients' symptoms.
You need a Full Thyroid Function Test (rarely done by NHS) and all tests have to be at the very earliest possible, fasting (you can drink water) and allow a gap of 24 hours between last dose of levo and test and take afterwards.#
You need TSH, T4, T3, Free T4, Free T3 and thyroid antibodies. Doctor probably wont do all of these but you can get a private test from one of the private labs that do home finger pin-pricks tests. You should be well-hydrated a couple of days before the blood draw so that it is easier to draw blood.
Doctor should check your vitamins/minerals and all have to be optimal, i.e. B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate.
We have recommended labs and make sure, if you decide to do so, make sure you are well-hydrated a couple of days before blood draw.
Thank you Shaws. This link is very informative and helpful.verywellhealth.com/estrogen...
If I understand correctly the test shows the thyroid is normal functioning now. Shaws, please tell me if this is so. Thyroid antibodies always high, didn't check it. I'm on 175mg levothiroxine, iron and vit D supplementing.
Result TSH 0.852 Ranges (0.4-4.0)
- FT3 2.460 - (1.5-4.1)
- FT4 1.380 - (0.89-1.76)
My Ferretin 96.90 Ranges: Central 5 -
- 95℅ ranges 148 Serum Folate 18.10 (3.100-20.500)
Vitamin D 42.89 (30.0-100.0)
I am adding in SeasideSusie as her knowledge of vits/minerals are second to none.
Antibodies attack your thyroid gland - they wax and wane until you're hypothyroid. Antibodies mean you have an Autoimmune Disease called Hashimoto's. Going gluten-free can help reduce these antibodies.
If you need additional oestrogen (for example, you have vaginal atrophy or hot flushes), take it, But it doesn't give you energy as far as I know, or reduce depression (progesterone is the one that makes you feel good), and needs to be in balance with progesterone and testosterone. Have you had them all tested?
Thank you for your replay. I will check progesterone privately together with the thyroid profile. So far vote for not take estradiol. Progesterone I used before and it didn't help me, made me feel even worse. Didn't check progesterone last time. My GP prescribed me estradiol. Looks like testosterone is also low.
Testosterone result 0.159
Ranges: Median 0.235
5th percentile 0.124 -
- 95th percentile 0.357
I would agree with above comment
Progesterone and oestrogen need to be balanced
Too much of either can cause side effects
However I am on both due to ivf treatment and feel a lot better.
Oestrogen binds Thyroid hormone so it is important to optimise your thyroid first
Your free t4 & t3 results are more important at this stage than trialling oestrogen .
Also vitamin deficiencies can cause problems
Vit D and magensium will help with anxiety depression and fatigue
Vit B12, iron and folate are all important for energy and hormones too.
All of these vitamins are crucial for good thyroid health too so you may want to test for these and supplement first - then sort thyroid levels out - and then if still left over symptoms you could try oestrogen and progesterone.
It definitely shouldn’t be first step for you
Saya85, I'm so glad that you feel better on progesterone and oestrogen treatment, it gives me a lot of hope. I will do serious research for sure. I need more power to get back to my balance, and cope with that bloody stresses. Cheers. All the best.
This is not a reply about your specific question. I just wanted to mention the range you gave for Testosterone. I LOVE the fact it gives you a median as well as the 5th and 95 percentile results. The median in particular would be very helpful for TSH because the distribution is so skewed.
In the UK, labs use the 2.5 and 97.5 percentiles, which widens the range that UK doctors insist on calling "the normal range". What it means is that more sick people are likely to be included in this range, and doctors will think they are well and refuse to treat them. We don't get told a median either.
Yes Humanbean, the thyroid treatment is so formal everywhere. I found France is better, at list they are generously selling T3, and Greece, may be Mexico... Thanks God that site is existing, helping to us so much. All the best.
Regarding your sex hormones, this isn't a topic I know anything about. I just wanted to say that many people with thyroid problems who need to supplement sex hormones often use bio-identical creams rather than prescription hormones prescribed by doctors. You might want to investigate them and decide for yourself whether they might help you.
I've heard/read of people using these sites :
uk.store.wellsprings-health...
I'm not making any guarantees that any of their products will be suitable for you.
Hi there,
I'm sorry you are feeling depressed, I haven't read all the replies so I may be repeating things but I have experience of the same issues. I take 100mcg of T4 and 25 mcgs T3 and have Hashimotos. I found when on T4 only I also got depression and a lot of aches and pains and it made my endometriosis worse. I am 55 now so the endometriosis isn't an issue but I started getting an anxious form of depression and brain fog, lethargy and tearfulness about 4 yrs ago. I tried many herbs and vitamin and mineral supplements, bio-identical progesterone, meditation etc, I am a believer in natural health so I felt I couldn't take HRT. But eventually, I took a very low dose of what my NHS doctor said was the lowest most natural HRT they offer and suddenly I felt a cloud was lifted from me.
Progesterone does improve mood for most women and is very important, but it is a "downer" of sorts, ie it makes you more relaxed and calmer, but for some women it can also make then lethargic and weepy, if out of balance with estrogen. Some women may need more of the "upper" hormone, estrogen, which can give you more "vim and vigour" However it does come with risk, so it needs to be carefully thought through, I believe this should be a personal decision, there is a lot of research to help make a decision. One of the links above for bio-identical creams offers a cream which is about 80/20 progesterone with a little estrogen, this would be a good way to perhaps try a tiny bit of estrogen, balanced with progesterone, because as someone above said, the balance is crucial. Using hormones transdermally also has less effect on the thyroid uptake. Generally speaking, estrogens will lessen the uptake of thyroid medication. When I naturally had estrogen dominance during my 40's, a common experience of women in perimenopause, I needed more T3 to balance out the effects. I am only going to take this low dose HRT for a max of 5 years as I feel it is helping the transition into a different hormonal profile. I also feel in a few years time there could be more options and more information.
Sorry that is a bit of a long-winded response. I hope you feel better soon.
Dear Kiwish. Thank you so much for the wonderful letter to me. Many years ago I used progesterone and estrogen combo, but it didn't help me at all. I think I not need progesterone, but will check after two month. I understand, we have to be very careful with artificial hormones, that long list of sides affects... yeah... but to be back to active life again cost it. I already started estradiol (call Climen) and feel much much better last few days. It's without progesterone. Feel inner strength again and vitality. My God! Bless you. All the best.
I just checked my Climen tables closer and found that they content progesterone also. So I'm on a right way. All the best. Thanks one more.
I'm really please for you. I also feel more vitality and energy and joy with a bit more estrogen. Everyone is a bit different and we have to make the best choices for ourselves. Keep well! x
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I don’t have any experience with this and I’m in no position to give medical advice. However, aside from the fact this drug has a clear contraindication with hypothyroidism, the list of side effects is as long as your arm. Don’t think I’d touch it with a barge pole. Couldn’t your doctor give you something safer if he has to give you anything at all? If you aren’t depressed already I certainly would be if I was experiencing those side effects! Isn’t it more likely you are under-medicated for your hypothyroidism and that is causing lack of energy and making you depressed? I reiterate, I can’t give medical advice and your doctor may be doing the right thing, but I wouldn’t swallow that stuff personally. The less medications the better in my view. It’s a pest enough taking Levothyroxine.