I have been feeling unwell for nearly two months, I had an overactive thyroid in Feb and was told it was thyroiditis, and discharged after bloods became normal. Antibodies negative.
I had my thyroid checkd 13th Aug: TSH: 2.5(0.35-5.5) T4 11.2 (7-17) T3 6.5 (3.5-6.5)
In the last week I have been feeling worse and worse, my blood pressure is low and my heart rate is fast when I do anything I feel faint and everything is a struggle. My tongue is sore and is scalloped. I have no idea if I'm gping hyper again or if this is hypo, but my blood pressure/pulse is really worrying me as it's makimg me feel so unwell. Does anybody know which way this is pointing please? I don't see my GP for another 2 weeks. Thank you
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Mwms9
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With a TSH of 2.5 you aren't going hyper you look as if you are going hypo. A TSH of 2.5 is higher than that of most healthy people.
One possible cause of a fast pulse is low iron and ferritin. Your sore, scalloped tongue is possibly due to low B vitamins. Have you had any nutrients tested in recent months? If not then you need to get an iron panel done i.e. serum iron, ferritin, transferrin saturation and TIBC (Total Iron Binding Capacity). Also vitamin B12, folate and vitamin D.
All the nutrients I've mentioned are commonly low in people with thyroid problems.
Thanks for replying. I'm confused because I have some symptoms of hyper and hypo, the heart going fast is like when I was hyper but the low blood pressure is new, apparently my levels are normal according to my notes I've not seen a GP yet but I bet they would say 2.5 is fine!! I did read that the scalloped tongue is related to being hypo? I only had my thyroid and FBC done which was all in range, vitamins not done since Feb and they never tested my Vit D, not sure if they will let me do that one or how could I request one on the basis of what? I always feel when I say 'I've read this etc' they just dont take notice. I take multi vitamins but I'm obviously lacking in something. I def need to check my ferittin as it was low a few years ago.
I'm just freaking out because I'm feeling faint and upset as I thought I was recovering. Do you know why my T3 is at the top of the range? Many thanks
I've never been hyper, I've only ever been hypo, but I've had a fast pulse caused by low iron.
Do you know if you have got positive thyroid antibodies? I wonder if you have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. It is common in people with Hashi's to have a combination of hypo and hyper symptoms. I notice you've had negative antibodies in February, but they may fluctuate a lot.
You can see signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism at these two links :
It is generally assumed that hypothyroid people will have high blood pressure and a slow pulse. But there are plenty of people on this forum who have had a fast pulse and/or low blood pressure while also being hypothyroid.
You asked why your T3 is at the top of the range... I can't say for certain but it is sometimes the case that when the thyroid starts to struggle the body will try to convert T4 into T3 at a greater rate than normal. T3 is the active hormone. Your body will cope reasonably well with lower than normal T4 but won't do well with lower than normal T3. So, I think your body is trying to increase conversion to keep you going.
The fact that you don't feel well means that it is not working for you particularly well.
I think you need to find out about your nutrients. If your problem is caused by low iron and/or ferritin then it can be sorted out fairly easily. Low B12 could also make you feel dreadful.
Thank you so much for your message, and explaining why my T3 last month was at the top that makes sense! Yes all antibodies were negative, I will ask to get them done again if they will, I didn't realise they could change.
That's what I had read about the low blood pressure not being hypo and it being hyper. The only way I can get through my day is drinking 3-4 litres of water and eating sugar.
I will ask for the vitamins, my iron was ok in my FBC but ferittin wasn't tested, my B12 in Feb was 412 and I have been taking sublingual eversince to stop it going lower.
If my TSH has risen but still in the normal range with all my symptoms I presume I still won't get treatment as I've read TSH needs to be over 10 to get medication which I find insane?
You have not revealed much in your profile to say which country you are in, but I have 3 editions of a book that rates multi's by brand name and version and covers 1,500 in the North American market, so if you are in the UK it might not be in the book, but it might be there and is worth a check if you give me the brand name and maker in a PM
.
You are right the doctors don't take notice as they are not trained in certain things like nutrition. My doctor told me he took an optional 3 hour lecture and that was all he got, so all he knows is what he learned on his own and he uses intravenous drips of vitamins in his therapies which he learned in extensive extra training session since his graduation. He has extra qualifications because of that. He got a user ratings of being the best GP in Toronto in Oct 2015 when I checked. So that is what an enterprising doctor will do, but most are not like that.
But the other thing to check is what drug have been told to take as once I was told to take a horrible drug and I stopped after three weeks as it put my blood pressure down to 80/50 which is what the doctor's staff discovered in me when my BF took me there as I could not go anywhere even in my home without being held up or hanging onto something.
Plus are you a vegan as that could be a cause of low B12 and low ferritin comes from avoiding beef
Here is a cut and paste from google.........
Nutritional deficiencies include iron, folate and vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 deficiency will also make the tongue sore and beefy-red in color. Glossitis, by causing swelling of the tongue, may also cause the tongue to appear smooth. Among women, low-estrogen states may cause a “menopausal glossitis”.
Examination of the Tongue | Stanford Medicine 25 | Stanford Medicine
Sounds like you may have Hashimoto's also called autoimmune thyroid disease diagnosed by high thyroid antibodies
Initially we tend to have hyper symptoms, then a mix of hyper and hypo, before becoming more hypo
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4, FT3 plus TPO and TG thyroid antibodies and also very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
see any GP early next week and ask for thyroid antibodies and vitamin testing
Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies or vitamins
Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have money off offers.
About 90% of all hypothyroidism in Uk is due to Hashimoto's. Low vitamins are especially common with Hashimoto's. Food intolerances are very common too, especially gluten. So it's important to get TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once .
Thank you for your reply, I will try and get an appointment next week but its very difficult getting appointments at the moment in my surgery. I was told all antibodies were negetaive in Feb, not sure if they can fluctuate but I'll ask. Maybe that will explain it. I'm just worried I won't be treated if I don't go outside of the normal range and feeling this bad scares me with a young toddler to look after. My scalloped tongue is really bothering me at the moment, as well as feeling faint with this low blood pressure and then my heart racing, I'm drinking water like a horse and can only get through the day eating chocolate for the sugar I'm craving which is not good.
Chocolate also contains fat and magnesium, so it might those that you are craving. Try to eat real food instead. A B12 supplement might help with the tongue.
To Mwms9, there is also a professional grade multi available on amazon UK which you could get delivered to you and take that in divided doses with food because if you are a vegan that could be the cause and what slowdragon and angel have said are correct HOWEVER, your indication is that antibodies are negative, so you want to aim for health and not to be diagnosed with a disease.
Sorry for my late reply. Yes I agree I'm waiting to get more vitamins tested next week hopefully to see if there is anything I can improve on. Thank you for replying.
My diet isn't too bad but am craving chocolate more in the last month for the energy with this low blood pressure. I have a 1000mg B12 that dissolves under the tongue and have just got magnesium bath salts which are supposed to help when used 2/3 times a week. I think I need more iron too.
I assume you were not given any treatment for the hyper? No one off treatments or everyday medications? Did you change any thing in your life at that time to help heal.the hyper ?
I was given carbimazole and beta blockers, it worked very fast and sent me to hypo for a short time then went into normal range, I included more vitamins to help. Endo said it was a simple case of thyroiditis and that I would be unlucky to get it again!
Yes I stopped them mid April. I started feeling better by June but then end of july have been going downhill. Unable to talk to Endo as he discharged me so have to be referred again by gp, that's what his secretary told me.
Righto. I see you have been given some great advice here. As someone who went undiagnosed and misdiagnosed with the same symptoms for many years, here's my best advice to get you through the short term. It's a time when you might panic. Understandably so. Not just because of the practicalities, but also because this /any illness also affects your brain chemistry. So you will feel anxious or a sense of doom or helpless or depressed or anxiety or whatever it is, no matter what you try to do for yourself (not all the time but it will keep recurring ). So for that I strongly recommend you try valerian supplement and lavender oil diffusion. Why? They are evidenced to increase GABA in the brain which is a nervous system relaxant. At the moment, your nervous system is quite the opposite of relaxed (fast heart beat indicates eg high adrenaline or cortisol, not because you asked for it, but because the body has to to compensate for low blood pressure and get heart beat faster to get enough blood to your brain ). Does that make sense?
Yes thank you that explains it well regarding the heart and blood pressure. I will look into the valerian thank you, I have lavender oil. Seems like people who have so many symptoms struggle to get any help because of these 'normal' ranges. Thank you for helping.
In addition as replies above , antibody testing TpoAb and TgAb are the easiest ways to see if you are dealing with autoimmune thyroiditis aka hashimoto's. BUT if the endo already told you you have thyroiditis then you can call the dept and ask for copies of all your records. I assume you live in UK? It should be possible with a phone call or visit. An extra hassle for you but good to have all paperwork for your own records. If they ask what in particular you want, say "everything "....notes, letters to doctor, laboratory results and anything else you have, thank you."
ABSOLUTELY, and I hope everyone is paying attention and takes this comment of yours to heart as I have done so for my records. I am even allowed to read thought my file in my doctor's office but have not asked to photocopy all of it as it goes back 18 years. I usually manage my health better than the doctor can. He has called me for advice after he was on holiday. He said he measured the blood sugar of all of the 4 adults after a large breakfast and he was scared. So I told him about the two release cycles of the pancreas and the doctor's book I read it in which he had told me to get, so I knew he had one of those books. The reality is he was wrong when he said "I thought all non diabetics would stay within the range" as I said if all people were tested right after pigging out on a cruise having a large breakfast served to them, I bet all people would suddenly be worried about being diabetic, but it just means the body has to go into overdrive to make more insulin to manage that extra load.
The unfortunate fact is that most specialists and doctors don't seem to know the full picture themselves. It's a shocking thing to find out when for generations we have put that trust there.
That's the impression I get, I have had more help and information via the internet than gp's and endo, its very disconcerting and I feel like I have to battle them first in order to help myself this time as opposed to when I was hyper.
I saw you asked if antibody results can fluctuate. Yes they can, and do. Im not sure that you can actually reverse autoimmune thyroiditis. Maybe manage it well, with or without flares. I know people who live with raised antibodies yet feel great! And others who have lowered their antibodies but feel crap. Antibodies aren't a whole story but still a part of the picture. Everyone is different.
For me personally, I have never had raised antibodies, yet hypo. The cardiac symptoms have been literally disabling. One seem to resolves with the other (eg treat thyroid levels and cardiac symptoms somewhat resolve ). But personally (and for most ) there has to become a new normal. Obviously I hope for you that you fully regain your normal 😀😀😀
Defo get a full iron study and in particular don't be content with a ferretin under 50 (even though 20 is the lowest on range ).
Nutrient deficiency happens with hypothyroidism because the body can't do anything efficiently with hypothyroidism (including digest and heartbeat ). So perhaps you have gone hypo and poor digestion and low iron etc.
One more interesting thing to do when you are feeling faint is to stand for five to ten minutes and take your blood pressure (if you have a monitor you can access). Loom at the difference between the top and bottom number.
For instance. Mine was often 74/63. Difference = 11. Not good (won't explain more at this point )
A low blood pressure of 90/54. Difference = 36. Wow sounds great to me!
Thank you so much for all the information I really appreciate it. My morning pulse today is 83/54 and goes up slightly when I'm doing anything. I do realise that when I drink a lot of water which my body is really craving my blood pressure goes more towards normal, it's when I walk around or play with my daughter that my pulse goes fast then feel faint as my pulse has lowered.
I will hopefully get the antibodies tested again and see of they are in range or not. I don't think I'll ever feel normal again! I've had so many problems since giving birth two years ago.
Yes I'm in the UK, I will ask for my antibody results from February I remember my TPO was 5. Yes I will supplement with more iron if my ferittin is lower than 70, a few years ago it was 16!
I'm not a doctor but I wouldn't worry about a low diastolic. As a bit of a generalisation : systolic is pressure in arteries as heart pumps. Diastolic is pressure in arteries as heart relaxes. Therefore in my personal opinion and experience, a low systolic makes me feel super crap and dizzy and fatigued as not enough pressure is being exerted to get blood to my brain. I'm not too fussed about diastolic but I do want to see at least 30 points between the 2 numbers. Eg 74-63= 11 = hardly any pressure difference between contraction and relaxation....so not a lot of purposeful flow! 123 minus 50= 73....that's a great healthy (?) difference between contraction and relaxation pressures (as it should be ). In theory, a good strong systolic will still have blood in veins under enough pressure to return deoxygenated blood back to lungs/heart. Whereas a weak systolic leaves everything sloshing around in the feet (loosely speaking ). I don't know if 120/53 is good as I'm no doc, but sounds very appealing to me 😀😀😀
Too bad your messages can't all be public as you give good input. But I must say you do tend towards the low blood pressure range and it might be because of drugs you are on and therefore the best would be to normalize things with nutrition. But you seem to be doing things with great analysis, so more power to you.
However, I bet you have been made ill like I was turned into a type 1 by being told to take insulin when I didn't even really need it, when I was 24 and a normal weight, but just in need of more nutrition.
Are you taking vitamins still/ Especially, are you taking a supplement that contains biotin (a B vitamin)? If so, that can invalidate the blood test - it can make TSH appear too low and T4 ad T3 appear too high (but it can go either way).
Very good. And a rule should be to take NO supplements for 2 full days before tests as vitamin C which is very good for the body can actually cause the chemicals they use in strips that change colour to not act they way they should to give a needed result. So even though supplements are good for the body, taking a 2 day hiatus to allow them to clear from the blood is a better way to get more accurate results at the lab
This is not hyperthyroidism. These symptoms sound a lot like P.O.T.S. + some nutrient deficiencies (such as iron) and possibly Sjrojen's (common with hypo patients). P.O.T.S. can co-exist with Sjrojen's syndrome (the dry eyes are a giveaway). The things that help, as well as tackling low thyroid, is help with the adrenals (p-5-p and magnesium are very important) and lots of good omegas (+ Sea Buckthorn for dry eyes) for the Sjrojen's.
Thank you for your message, I thought T3 had to be low for hypo? I am inclined to think more hypo now after reading all these messages and symptoms but I see the doctor won't treat me as I'm in the normal range. I've been tested for sjorgens and it was negative. I will look into that p.o.t.s though thanks.
I have just bought magnesium bath salts which are meant to be good at restoring levels when used 2/3 times a week. I agree I seem to be deficient in vitamins even though I take them everyday. Doctors don't care about vitamins from my experience.
Hi I had the exact same symptoms and it was definitely caused by being under medicated. It got better and better with each increase of levothyroxine and is now back in the normal range. My heart rate was also dropping really low when I was resting.
You will likely find as soon as you increase your Levo these symptoms disappear. Good luck hope you feel better soon, I know exactly how you’re feeling. I tried everything to increase my blood pressure but nothing worked, your heart rate will increase to compensate for the low blood pressure. I had a very quick response to increasing my Levo I felt better within days. 💐💐
Thank you for your message. I'm not on any medication except vitamins as I'm in normal range. I'm hoping to repeat my thyroid in 2 weeks to see if its changed. Apparently in the US a TSH of 2.5 would be hypo but not in the UK it has to go over 5.5. I hope I can sort myself out and improve my blood pressure and lower my pulse like you did.
Oh sorry I didnt read all the posts above. My symptoms started months before I was diagnosed. Initially my TSH was 2.0, they didn’t test T4 or T3. It was a later test that showed a TSH of 13.8 and a T4 of 8.5. My symptoms were the same for both tests. Have you had your antibodies tested?
No problem. My TSH last month was 2.5, T4 11.2 and T3 6.5, hoping to check them again in 2 weeks as I feel worse. I had my antibodies tested in February and they were negative. I think I have been sub hypo for years as I struggle with fertility issues and only when I went on iron tablets after a few months I concieved! When I went hyper in Jan I felt great at the beginning because of my TSH lowering most probably. If my TSH is still in range I won't be treated and will have to rely on more vitamins I guess.
Hi I'm hyper with graves antibodies. I have always had low BP and when I was first diagnosed I had a very fast pulse. I also get fast pulse when doing anything sweeping the kitchen floor, making the bed etc. I am also constantly dizzy, feeling faint and off balance. Asked my GP about it last week and she couldn't answer as to why and also my levels are apparently normal😏. Last time my TSH was 1.16 got to pick up latest blood results on Monday .
Sorry for late reply. Sounds similar to how I feel, I wish I could see gp sooner but no appts until next week. They thought I had graves but antibodies were negative. I only hope they will let me re-test thyroid as my last one was only a month ago. It feels like this is something that we will have to manage forever feeling up and down and never normal again.
According to Carolyn Dean (Magnesium Miracle book) you won't be in danger of overdosing on magnesium from a few epsom salt baths. In my case (and I'm hypo) Magnesium has done me the world of good - less stressed, fewer cramps and more energy. You are what you absorb and cheap vitamin supps are often poorly absorbed. Better to try a recommended version from here. I've read (on here, and in Carolyn Dean's book) that celtic sea salt is very beneficial as it contains lots of useful electrolytes. Low electrolytes (iron, potassium, zinc or magnesium) are all possible culprits of your heart issues. I've tried Dr Myhill's Mineral Mix that also contains vit d and b12 and I then added vitamin c (vit c is essential for adrenal health). However, as my vit and b12 levels have improved I have decided to look for alternatives... I find that I prefer not to take these later in the day...
Do some research on P.O.T.S if it continues to be a problem, electrolytes and get those blood tests done for iron, vit d etc. If you are diagnosed with P.O.T.S. you'll probably receive more sympathy from your GP (the drugs they use are not a 'cure' and I don't expect you'd be obliged to use them - must always check how they may affect thyroid and adrenals) but it's a known disability and prevents mobility, so you should be able to get some help if you've been missing work etc.
N.B. this is going to sound like a bit of a downer, but drinking tea anywhere near iron or magnesium massively reduces uptake. I forget to mention this sometimes, but my uptake of iron was much improved when I abstained from my lovely cuppas!
Please let us know . I too am hashi positive thru high antibodies tsh was 3.4 and free t4 at bottom of range after a year of Levo they slowly increased . Tsh down but still on 25 mg . I get a lot of hyper symptoms it’s such a disaster trying to convince the drs
Oh forgot to ask bTw . What is your heart rate when u say high ? I saw the numbers w low Bp But what is the fast hr ? thx I feel. They (drs) want to give us everything for all the symptoms but nothing that will find and get to the root cause .....very frustrating
Sorryfor such a late reply. It depends what I'm doing, usually on the go it can go between 100- 125 beats, and as my bp is low I think my heartis pumping faster to compensate and I think that's why I get thirsty as I feel much better after drinking cold water. I dread seeing doctors as they never understand!
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