Hi
I know many advise taking Vitamin K when taking Vitamin D supplement but my concern is that the Vitamin K has an effect on blood clotting.
As my father died of a stroke at the age of 58 I worry that the Vitamin K would make my blood more prone to clot if I am genetically prone to have thicker blood.
Can any advise please.
Thank you.
I don't take Vitamin K. But I think you are thinking about Vitamin K1. I think the advice I have seen on here is regarding Vitamin K2.
You could Google search the function of each.
Hi Mary,
many thanks for replying, do you take vitamin D?
Yes
What is your Vit D level Mary, as 800iu is a low dose if you have insufficiency.
You seem to be trying to generalise something that needs to be personalised and individual. You've had some excellent answers on here and information. You can confirm all the information you've been given by your own further research.
Just received your PM. there really wasn't any need for that comment.
The K2 I take is Neto i.e. fumented Soya in a capsule. it is also found in Soft Cheese such as Brie etc. The French eat tons of it and have one of the lowest heart disease rate in Europe.
Thank you Bunnyjean,
yes I will have to get some Brie, I will look into capsules.
Thank you for letting me know about them.
The Clinical Knowledge Summaries are not formal NICE guidelines.
There is a NICE Guideline for vitamin D:
guidelines.co.uk/nutrition/...
Please try to be clear about this because formal NICE guidelines have greater weight than CKS (which were inherited from an NHS website).
I clearly wrote cks.
You wrote:
Check out the cks.NICE guidlines for treatment of Vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency.
Which I understood. I suspect many people here have no understanding that these CKS pages are NOT full, formal NICE guidelines.
And that has now been removed.
Isn't that something to be taken up with the website
The site says:
Clinical Knowledge Summaries
Welcome to the NICE CKS service which provides primary care practitioners with a readily accessible summary of the current evidence base and practical guidance on best practice in respect of over 330 common and/or significant primary care presentations.
The service is being regularly maintained and upgraded as and when significant new evidence emerges. More than 65 topics will be updated and up to 10 new topics will be added each year.
NICE have commissioned a number of Powerpoint slides based on a range of existing CKS topics, to provide a brief snap-shot of the CKS topic, and to be used as an educational tool. The slides can be found by clicking here
At the top of that page it says:
NICE Guidance
Which links here:
If, however, you feel this is unclear or inadequate, please report your experience and suggestions to NICE. Their contact details are available here:
Lucylocks,
It's vitamin K2 members recommend with vitD. I've never taken it.
Thanks Clutter,
do you take Vitamin D?
Lucylocks,
Yes, 5,000iu per week maintenance dose.
Do you mind me asking Clutter why you do not take Vit K2 if you take Vit D?
Is there some test you can ask your GP for to ascertain if you are prone to having thicker blood? Might be worth asking.
It's K1 that aids blood clotting and is used in injections in hospitals.
K2 is the form that directs calcium to where it is needed ie bones and teeth and is recommended when taking D3.
You should do your own research to satisfy yourself but here's a post I made last year with some links to get you started - it's not exhaustive healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Hi SeasideSusie,
I have read your post thank you.
I wanted to start the vitamin K2 as I have lost a couple of teeth recently because they became very loose and wondered if the K2 would prevent loosing any more.
I have noticed when I do the finger tip tests for thyroid levels, my blood runs pretty freely, but not sure this proves anything or not.
I will ask to my Doctor about a test.
Thank you.
Lucylocks, there is a test your doctor can do to determine your blood. It a timing test to see how long it takes to clot . This determines how thick it is. I suffer with really bad bruising and it turns out my blood took much longer than normal to clot therefore causing the large bruises I would get simply from a slight knock. Good luck 😉
It is vitamin K2-MK7 that is recommended on here, which is different from vitamin K1 involved in clotting.
It is really promoted to those who are severely deficient e.g. have a vitamin D level under 25-30nmol/l, but don't have loads of other issues, as they frequently experience nasty symptoms as their vitamin D levels rise as these co-factors are suppose to help minimise them so they don't become mostly bed bound until their level reaches somewhere in the insufficiency range.
Some posters who have issues with calcium levels not due to a known medical cause have reported it has helped them keep their calcium levels up.
Unfortunately nutritional science is an evolving field and is complicated by the fact that no-one has the same genes, so even if you live in the same environment genes are expressed differently. The result of this is no-one on here can advice you whether to take it or not. This also means some of the dietary and supplement advice you get from medical and health professionals particularly those working in the NHS is out-dated.
In regards to teeth problems I didn't have wobbly teeth when I had severe vitamin D deficiency but had gum problems and lost a filling amongst other horrible signs and symptoms. I found getting my level up to mid-insufficiency level helped a lot. I didn't find out about the co-factors until I was around that level but then as I also discovered I had other nutrient problems not brought to my attention by my old GP practice, I concentrated on them.
I also have a genetic susceptibility to death from strokes which is early on my mother's side but in my case I know the additional life style factors that contributed to them.
Btw I know from their previous posts all the people who answered you take some form of vitamin D. The amount they take and their dose in different seasons of the year, just like whether they take co-factors is individual to them.
Many thanks for your interesting reply.
A few years ago my vitamin D was very low at 22. I supplemented with a spray, 6000iu daily and got some sun in the summer and it went up to 90. I did not know about Vit K2 then so did not take it.
I continue to supplement Vit D, 2000iu daily, but in November level was 66. I feel exhausted these past couple of weeks so wonder if it has dropped further. Thyroid levels aren't too bad (T3 could be a bit better)
Calcium levels are O.K so do not have a problem with that.
From what I understand you are saying is that, the Vit K2 is more essential to take when Vit D level is really low and once if raises to a decent level, K2 is not needed (sorry if I have misunderstood this) if this is the case then it is not so important to take it now.
Thank you.
My main point is no-one knows.
People have reported different things but because the studies into vitamin D are mostly useless e.g. too low doses, too small group of people, all one gender, all one age group - it is impossible to say what does and doesn't work.
Also if your vitamin D level ever drops over winter particularly before March and you aren't going away for a 2 week break in the sun, then double your daily dose for one - two months. This is because by the time April comes around you could be going back to being in the lower part of the insufficiency range. Also be aware in the UK it isn't guaranteed that April will be sunny so your level could drop further.
Also be aware the following winter that you may need to do the same. Unfortunately you will get no help from the medical profession particularly if where you live the boundary of optimal is being 50 or above.
If you're worried about supplements why don't you research foods that naturally contain K2 in a food form such as natto which is a Japanese style fermented bean?
There are two types of vitamin K.
K1 is for blood clotting & K2 for bone health.
healthunlocked.com/healthye...
healthunlocked.com/healthye...
Sorry about your dad. Both are essential to our well being, so perhaps look at lifestyle & dietary changes if you're concerned about stroke prevention.
I eat lots of greens for K1, & kefir every day for K2, & occasionally brie though it's found in some other cheeses & fermented foods. Magnesium & boron are also essential for good bone health. I get a good third of my magnesium intake from my diet & supplement for the rest, as well as eating nuts & seeds for boron.
Many thanks Badhare for your reply and condolences.
I also eat lots of greens but have not tried kefir, it is something I will look into. I use a magnesium spray but do not take boron, again I will look into this.
Thank you for the links, I will now research my options.
Best wishes.
You're welcome!
I make my own magnesium spray, which is about a quarter the cost of the commercial ones. 
Yes I was thinking of doing that, again some more research to do.
Thank you for all your help.
I add about 70g of magnesium hexahydrate crystals to a 200ml bottle of cheap distilled witch hazel as I find it stings less. I can use it on sensitive parts of my body, such as skin folds, which peeled with the commercial stuff. It acts as a deodorant, so I found this out the painful way. People with hardier skin would be able to tolerate a stronger dilution.
Thanks for that, I will give it a go.
If it acts as a deodorant can it be used under arms.
I would love a good alternative to commercial deodorants.
I use a deodorant stone made from potassium alum, or deodorants containing this. The stones are expensive, but last me for at least 3 years, so very economical. The magnesium spray acts in the same way, but with we get the benefit of magnesium, absorption too.
Thank you, could you let me know where you get it from.
P.M. if not allowed on forum.
The high street shop that sells extortionately priced supplements has magnesium hexahydrate crystals. They're £3.99 for 250g, though I've bought 1kg of the same brand for under £4 at a cheap household stuff shop. The witch hazel is £2.59 for 200mls, again from high street shops. Some folks just use water with the crystals, but I find the witch hazel reduces the stinging & itchiness,
Whereas other criticise alum because it contains aluminium!
Do you mean the alum in the deodorant?
Yes - I do:
Potassium alum, potash alum, or potassium aluminium sulfate is a chemical compound: the double sulfate of potassium and aluminium, with chemical formula KAl(SO4)2. It is commonly encountered as the dodecahydrate, KAl(SO4)2·12H2O. The latter is the most important member of the generic class of compounds called alums, and is often called simply alum.[4]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potas...
Oh so that's a no no then.
I will try the magnesium spray as a deodorant.
I have seen several comments recently regarding how aluminium is bad for us.
Thanks for pointing it out.
Yes, many do claim the badness of aluminium. But a massive proportion of the crust of our planet is aluminium in various forms - it is the third most common element there. It is totally impossible to avoid all aluminium compounds.
I don't doubt that aluminium has affected some people, but quite how and why is a more difficult question.
That's really interesting and yes it is a difficult question to answer on how many people it has affected.
I think the issue is chemically processed alumnium, as it's naturally found in soil.
The natural clear deodorants don't have the same qualities, so they're considered a safe option for our hygiene routine as they're not made from the form of aluminium that's been detected in some cancerous tumours. I'm trusting what I've read on the use of these rather than the usual type as I've been using this type for nearly 30 years.
My teeth aren't my crowning glory but about a year ago my hygienists commented that my dental hygiene was much improved and asked what I had done so I told her about K2. The article is found when looking into it did say that your teeth become much firmer when taking K2.
Hi silverfox7,
it is good to hear your dental hygiene has improved. I will try and find the article you suggested.
Thank you.
My mum takes warfrin but can't take k2 with her vitamin d. Google for scholarly articles. Best wishes
Hi thyroidquest,
I have read it cannot be taken with warfarin.
I am going to do more research.
Thank you and best wishes to you.
I totally agree with thyroidquest. I have always had an INR on the higher end of the scale and after I took Vit K2 my INR went down to the lowest end of the range. So I am now careful how much I take. 1 to 2 tablets per week is generally all I will supplement.
Thank you Kalicocat,
Sorry but what is INR?
INR is a way of assessing blood clotting time.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proth...
You will find a lot of the abbreviations used here in my Abbreviations and Acronyms document:
My Vit. K says it is K2 as MK4 and Mk7 1200 mcg. It also contains Vit. D3 20 mcg and magnesium 200 mg. I think it is having an effect since my teeth look a lot whiter since I have been taking this, and my nails are growing much faster - I have to bite them every day now to keep up with their growth!
Hi
thank you for your reply.
Sounds though it is having a really good effect on both your teeth and nails.
I have not seen one which contains magnesium before, do you mind letting me know the name of it please.
P.M. if not allowed on forum.
Many thanks.
Lucy, I would just mention that 90-100mcg K2 is sufficient for a dose of D3 up to 10,000iu. If you do consider taking more than that amount I would suggest researching.
Hi SeasideSusie,
Thank you for your message, that is good to know. It is a lot smaller dose than LAHs takes, so if I do decide to take it I now know to only take 90-100mcg K2, which would be sufficient for the amount of Vitamin D I take.
I think I will hold off taking it for now and as you suggested ask Doctor for a blood test.
If he will not do one I see Medichecks do various tests for blood clotting.
Thank you again.
Best wishes.
I buy it from StopAgingNow.com, it's called Revolution-K. Now, I am in the US so it costs about $25, I GUESS that's about 12 pounds St. for 60 capsules. I am pretty sure they are universal. Hope you can source it, they sell generally good products.
I read that K1 was very different to K2 but I rang up about the K2 I sourced to make sure no soy in it and they asked if I'd ever taken warwarin and the answer was yes but then I was asked why I no longer took it so explained I'd had a pulmonary embolism to I had many tests to see why and finally it was decided it was down to my new hip op and I was taken off it immediately! Apparently I was a little bleeder not a clotter. But I thought it interesting that they had asked and could only surmise that it was difficult to separate the two but it's very confusing when things can differ.
Many thanks silverfox7,
sorry to hear you had embolism.
Yes it is confusing.
I think I am going to ask Doctor for a test before taking it.
Quite an interesting (and recent) paper on vitamins K:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
K2 appears potentially able to help with the coagulopathy that can be caused by warfarin!
The American Heart Association/American College of Cardiology Foundation recommends vitamin K1 for warfarin-related coagulopathy. In Japan, vitamin K2 is used more commonly for such purpose. The difference between vitamins K1 and K2 in reversing warfarin-related coagulopathy has not been discussed. Herein, we report a case that was reversed with vitamin K2; alterations in vitamins K1 and K2 levels and coagulation markers are also presented.
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