Just asking... ( Thoughts about doctors saying supressed TSH causes a risk for bone loss)

[Justiina]

If NDT, T3 and combination therapy are causing such a high risk for bone loss and what not, how come it makes sense to prescripe following drugs to "FIX " failed thyroid treatment? Let alone gazillion of other drugs causing so many weird adverse reactions and side effects.

Wouldnt it mathematically,scientifically and -ally this and that make sense to REDUCE all possible risk factors by using just one type of potentially risky medication?

I know thyroid meds used correctly are no risk for anything else except patient becoming happy ,which is awful side effect... !!! Potential risk of bone loss is dodged by not taking too much of thyroid hormones. With other drugs you do not have that option! Which is easier to do? Tricky. Not.

Besides its hormone replacement. It is impossible and simply stupidity to try to achieve reasonable wellbeing by treating symptoms with other drugs, as ideally individually tailored thyroid hormone replacement will result in satisfying wellbeing.

There is no single evidence that usage of other drugs would work long term. 0 evidence. None. If anything there is ton loads of evidence that other drugs cause more harm long term.

T4 only group should be compared to group on other replacement (NDT/T3/combo) and compare how many other drugs are used , how many drugs became unnecessary once optimal treated.

SSRI

Our review of 19 studies on the effect of SSRIs on bone indicates negative effects on BMD and/or heightened fracture risk. The explicit magnitude of this effect remains unclear due to the tempering effects of various potential confounds. However, in support of this relationship, there are known negative pathophysiological effects of serotonin on bone regulation. While no recommendations are presently available, SSRI use in high-risk individuals (e.g., those with osteoporosis, history of osteoporotic fractures) is cautioned.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

PPI's

Treatment with a PPI results in a significant reduction in bone density. Close monitoring is beneficial for patients who are to receive long-term treatment with PPI.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/234...

[helvella]

Absolutely right.

And many more (though they include Excessive Thyroid Hormone Replacement):

osteoporosis.ca/osteoporosi...

[helvella in reply to helvella]

Don't worry about it though, those non-steroidal antiinflammatory medicines dished out to you will make sure you have a heart attack first...

Common painkillers may raise risk of heart attack by 100% – study

Risk of myocardial infarction is greatest in first month of taking NSAIDs such as ibuprofen if dose is high, say researchers

theguardian.com/society/201...

[Justiina in reply to helvella]

Exactly, but over dosing thyroid hormones can be safely excluded as that is not usually long term unless doctor is an idiot.

But all these other meds are used routinely long term especially to treat symptoms of hypothyroidism as hypothyroidism is usually life long condition.

I guess that is a question most doctors can't even understand as they only hear about side effects of thyroid medication, but not about other medication.

Like if you score pros and cons , (financially, symptom wise, wellbeing, other drugs and risks) i bet optimising thyroid function will score better with big difference.

I guess it's not done that way. They only weigh certain aspects and now it seems to be costs and test results. Since the reference range is so wide for all thyroid hormones it's relatively simple to bring them inside the range.

It's always one sided.

That's what makes me wonder how much pressure and money is involved as I am not the first and not the last one pointing this out, but it gets routinely ignored when they are weighing the benefits of different type of treatments. It is designed to fail to show levo only doesn't suit everyone.

[Clutter]

Justiina,

It's the dose which determines whether TSH becomes suppressed not the fact that NDT is taken or that T3 is taken with or without Levothyroxine. It's possible to take any or all of them without suppressing TSH but whether that would be sufficient to raise FT4 and/or FT3 to levels high enough is another thing altogether.

[shaws]

As far as I've read bone loss and heart damage are wildly overdone. I think in order to keep us within a range instead of optimum hormones.

The following is from a doctor who was an Adviser before his early death.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

[silverfox7]

My TSH is usually around 0.01 and I'm on NDT for the last two years. Last year I was diagnosed with breast cancer and have to take Letrozole which puts me in danger of osteoporosis so I was set for a Bone mineral scan. I was upset that I had dropped back into the osteopenia range thought this was apparently ok as it's common for my age. I had this diagnosis several years ago but managed to correct it with supplementing D3 which on testing started off at 26 and rose to about 79 then rose a little more each year to about 89. Then my calcium shot over range and I decided I didn't want to take Adcal as it has Soy in it so stopped whilst I looked around. Got told off by the endo so persuaded GP to let me go onto the same brand which had been my booster goes but at 1000iu. So last week we retested nearly 8 months after being on Letrozole and only the last 4 moths of starting my maintenance dose and my readings have gone up to 95! I already took magnesium but I've added in K2 so my calcium level I now within the normal range and my dental bleeding has stopped do a win win situation. Ok I haven't had another term test of bone density but K2 is also taking the. Allium out of the blood stream and putting it into the bone and teeth so I am convident that my osteopenia is T worse static and at best improving.

So taking medication that will lower my bone density and medication to get my D3 back up then I reckon I'm in a good place!

[Justiina in reply to silverfox7]

That's another story as you are on medication for another condition. But it's great supplementing D3 and K2 have resolved the unfortunate side effects. That's why I am so upset vitamins and nutrients not being a part of health care as like for you it makes it possible to use medication not good for you bone density. Money saved! Patients wellbeing improved! That's what proper health care should be! !!!

[winjy in reply to silverfox7]

I am sorry you have breast cancer. I also heard that a lady on NDT for 10 years had breast cancer...I don' know if it is coincidence..but I guess NDT increases estrogen to affect cancer. I also experienced estrogen dominance.. but I guess NDT is better than synthetic as I suffer from serious side effect from levo.

[silverfox7]

Breast cancer is apparently on the increase and I was told they don't know why. I was fortunate that I didn't need chemo and radiotherapy was given in case anything missed. So be watchful. I didn't feel a lump and neither did my GP or the consultant but I just didn't think I looked right so shouted out! I don't think it can be linked with NDT which at one time was the only form of treatment. Low iodine has been a suggestion I read and I expect there are many more suggestions.

AA's you say Justiina I have the side effects from having to to the Letrozole but at least I can easily deal with them so that I can say taking the K2 does work well and is recommended in any case.

[Justiina in reply to silverfox7]

I assume it has less to do with NDT , but more to do with xenoestrogens that really cause havoc in our system. Xenoestrogens are hard to flush out from our system and they bind relatively tight to estrogen receptors. This is one reason why the need of vitamins and nutrients has increased and what we thought was adequate 30 years ago is not relevant these days.

[silverfox7]

I don't think we are getting as much goodness out of food either and more chemicals are used etc. it. An be hard work trying to keep well!