I have read a great deal of conflicting information regarding iodine supplementation. Is it OK to supplement with iodine if you have subclinical Hashimotos thyroiditis and are taking NDT? I understand that the thyroid cannot operate without iodine and that both FT4 and FT3 both contain iodine (FT4=4 molecules of iodine, FT3=3 molecules of iodine). The Japanese consume FAR higher amounts of iodine than we do and their thyroid health in general is much better than ours!
iodine supplements: Yes or no?: I have read a... - Thyroid UK
iodine supplements: Yes or no?
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Mongolia, the Japanese have high incidences of Hashimoto's which can be caused by excess iodine. Most articles I've read don't recommend iodine supplementation for Hashi patients. My view is sufficient iodine is obtained from T4 &/or T3 and supplementation is unnecessary unless testing shows iodine deficiency. I recommend you read the Japanese study on iodine supplementation Helvella posted. healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....
There are more than 2,200 other posts with pro and con opinions on iodine supplementation in this link.
Hashimotos means the thyroid contains too much hydrogen peroxide.
the supplementation of Iodine is all well and good but you need the right things to uptake it these are tyrosine and selenium and I'm sure Boron is essential as well due to the interaction with calcitonin which controls the level of calcium and phosphorous in the blood
patient.co.uk/health/the-th...
to it all being related to hormone production and the parathyroid gland as well boron does a similar job as iodine in removing heavy metals and fluoride out of us
there are a lot of foods that inhibit the uptake of iodine there are a lot of vegetables that we use that slow the brain down as well as containing goitrogens, soy is especially bad for Iodine and has no benefits for the health of humans this is why they use it so much.
there are different iodines so you need to go easy on what one you need the body is an amazing chain of interactions which makes it quite difficult to cure unless you have all the pieces in the right balance then it is quite hard to fix which is why pills don't cure you they just relieve the symptoms in the majority of people.
once you start educating yourself then it becomes a lot easier.
However, at least one source states:
However, in the presence of excess iodide intake, more hydrogen peroxide will be produced, requiring more selenium for neutralization.
• in reply tohelvella
the excess is normally excreted via your kidneys.
they do say do not take Vitamins C and E when you take Iodine as the antioxidants interfere with the Iodine,
when you take Hydrogen Peroxide you are not meant to eat anything 30 minutes before or 1 hour afterwards, although I would wait 2 hours after taking Iodine if you were using an antioxidant.
also wear sunglasses that protect your eyes from UV rays if you go outside this is a major pathway for UV interfering with Iodine especially as our Ozone layer is virtually gone
and Taurine plays the same role in some peoples bodies as Vit C.
greygoose• in reply to
Hi Jinni, I'm interested in this idea that the thyroid contains too much hydrogen peroxide in Hashi's. Do you have a link where I could read about that? Thank you.
• in reply togreygoose
drlwilson.com/Articles/IODI...
If you scroll down about 3/4 of the way down to relation between Iodine and selenium
apparently if we fast that removes hydrogen peroxide out of the body
greygoose• in reply to
Um, yes, ok. But the way I read it is that too much hydrogen peroxide CAN lead to Hashi's. That does not automatically mean that all people with Hashi's have too much hydrogen peroxide in their thyroid. Hashi's can be caused by all sorts of things.
Subclinical Hashi's thyroiditis is still Hashi's. This means that there is nothing wrong with the gland itself. If it weren't for the antibodies, it would be able to produce hormone naturally. It's just that the antibodies are slowly destroying it. Hashi's is not caused by iodine deficiency.
Never ever take things like iodine without first getting tested to see if you need it. Too much can be worse than too little. IMHO
• in reply togreygoose
Since I found out that I have sub-clinical Hashimotos, I have been supplementing with iodine. My last blood test showed that my thyroid anti-bodies have halved (Tg down from 128 to 86; TPO down from 493 to 253 in 6 months. However my T4 has always been at the low end of the reference range (except for TSH 14.9, when correspondingly my TSH was at its lowest: 0.20), My last test recorded TSH 9.5 (down from 11.7) and below the reference range. My T3 was correspondingly down from 4.5 to 3.5, (both thyroid hormone tests taken at the same time as the last anti-bodies test that recorded a near 50% drop in my TPO antibodies). The local lab reference range for TSH is 10.0-24.0. I should add that my last two test panels were taken after I took advantage of the effects of Circadian rhythm (time of test), fasting, sleep deprivation and postponing my medication until after the test was taken...factors that effect the lab values of (especially ) TSH, also (to a lesser degree) T4 and T3. I felt obliged to take these drastic measures since my doctor was threatening to lower my medication (NDT), if my TSH (then 0.20) did not rise into the reference range. This strategy was more successful than I expected, as the next test (taken 9.am one month later) was TSH 0.66, and the latest test drawn at 7.05am (2 months after that), was TSH 4.6. I find, having to resort to this subterfuge quite ridiculous, and it certainly does not give me a great deal of confidence in my GP, or the medical profession in general.
However, I have decided to stop taking iodine until my blood levels are measured. I take selenium and zinc for my thyroid and Vitamin D and K2 for my bones. My sleep is crap, possibly due to sleep apnoea and/or my adrenals wake me up around 1 to 3 am. I think the lowering of my antibodies may be due to my cutting out gluten, added sugar and dairy. This has also eased my very large gall stone, the result of slow hypothyroid metabolism.
greygoose• in reply to
There is nothing sub-clinical about a TSH of 14.9! And I very much doubt if your labs range for TSH is 10.0 - 24.0. A TSH of 10 is overt hypothyroidism. But I have to confess, I Don't really get what you're trying to say about iodine, there. What is the point you're trying to make?
• in reply togreygoose
Sorry, I meant to say T4 recommended range is 10.0-24. My TSH has never exceeded 6.0. The point is: It puzzles me that my antibodies have substantially lowered (halved) at the same time as taking iodine. Maybe one needs to take selenium at the same time as I do for absorption. Maybe I was deficient in iodine, as my iodised salt intake was next to nothing due to fear of cardiovascular disease. Maybe the Japanese study mentioned on this thread is flawed because it fails to take into account their far greater consumption of iodine, which is roughly 6-10 times per capita the consumption of 'western' populations. I do not know. However, I will get my levels tested.
greygoose• in reply to
But then again, you said you went gluten-free. So, isn't that more likely to be the cause of your antibodies dropping?
• in reply togreygoose
Could be the result of going off gluten, but you would expect my supplementing with iodine would negate that positive effect (if indeed the iodine is harmful for those with Hashimotos). Evidently one should always take selenium when taking iodine. I guess it raises the question what exactly IS the safe level of iodine? and how common is iodine deficiency in Western populations?
greygoose• in reply to
Well, that's a question that is raised all the time. But it isn't the most frequent cause of hypo, that's Hashi's. And, I rather think the question should be : how much do you need, rather than how much is safe. Why take more than you need???
• in reply togreygoose
Another possible reason for the halving of my thyroid antibodies, apart from being gluten free and largely on a Paleo diet (low carbs and no dairy), could be the fact that I have been taking NDT now for about 9 months. I have read that there are studies published which say that NDT does/can reduce anti-bodies. However sleep is now my largest issue, waking up around one to 3 am and often not being able to get back to sleep until shortly before dawn. I know I snore and have woken up gulping for air ,due hypothyroid obstructive sleep apnoea, but I suspect my adrenals may also be implicated. This problem has pushed up my TSH to fro 0.66 to 4.6. I have an appointment to be measured for a dental splint to be fitted at the dental school to push my lower jaw forward while I sleep. I have also joined a local choir to exercise my throat muscles.
greygoose• in reply to
The choir sounds like a great idea. But wouldn't increasing your NDT to bring your TSH down be a better solution than a dental split? (Which sounds horrendous!)
Yes, it does sound like an adrenal problem. Don't forget there is T4 in NDT. Before doing anything else, I would get those tested.
But, you know, a lot of Hashi's people cannot tolerate NDT, it stimulates their anitbodies. So it's not always a solution.
• in reply togreygoose
NDT does not appear to have stimulated my antibodies. As for the dental splint, this is a common method of treating Obstructive Sleep Apnoea (whatever the cause). The dental specialist takes measurements before his technician makes a mouth splint which in worn during sleep to push the lower jaw slightly forward, thus opening the airway. The splint which is placed inside the mouth, is made from resin, taken from an initial cast of your teeth placed in the desired position. It is far better proposition than waking up frequently during the night and feeling exhausted during the day. Even worse!...those with severe sleep apnoea, must go to bed with an oxygen mask strapped to their face! I have just ordered Ashvagandha (Indian Ginseng) which is reputed to help Adrenals and sleep (iherb.com). Melatonin is supposed to be good too, but in NZ it is only available on doctor's prescription.
greygoose• in reply to
Melatonin is not a sleeping pill. It is not recommended for hypos because it decreases levels of T4 in the blood.
Ashwagandha is not for everyone, dépends how far gone your adrenals are. Be cautious.
And I still say that getting your TSH down is a better way of handling your sleep apnea than any dental device. But, your choice! 
Happy Easter!
• in reply togreygoose
According to studies I have read, thyroid medication helps in some cases of secondary sleep apnoea but not all, similarly it does not necessarily help those suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome (also caused by swelling of soft tissue). Furthermore, one must convince the GP to obligingly increase one's medication...not easy in my case. In the past two years I have discarded 3 doctors and am about to try a new one! As for trying to get my TSH down by natural strategies...I am gluten and dairy free and I have reduced my antibodies, but it seems I must use any other means at my disposal to alleviate sleep patterns that have left me exhausted.
greygoose• in reply to
No, the only 'natural' way - in fact the only way to get your TSH down is to take more thyroid hormone. Therefore, were I in your position, I would take my health into my own hands, and self-treat, rather than spend thousands of money units on a sticking plaster. But that's just me.
• in reply togreygoose
Difficult to self treat with prescription drugs in NZ. Our vigilant customs would confiscate the drugs at the border! Believe me, the stuff would not get past customs. Some months ago, I imported some herbal Valerian from the US. When I finally received it, the bag had been opened and all 3 container's seals had been prised open!
greygoose• in reply to
Oh dear! I didn't know that. How awful for you! Sounds like a police state.
minus• in reply to
My sleep apnea is moderate not severe, and I wear c-pap every night. Tried mouths point there horrible, salivating all night and awful headaches. Usually swollen tissues at back of throat and enlarged tongue due to thyroid under active, or very obese. I'm not obese but have enlarged tongue and tissue , have had singing lessons hoping it would help, voice sounds not great due to tissue at back of throat plus I have deviated septum. Never thought I'd end up with hashimotos and sleep apnea syndrome. I was having 17 episodes an hour- now completely under control, take 150 mg of levo still not cured of apnea though and need machine. Perhaps I should try ndt next.
The Japanese study I posted is very well aware of all the usual issues.
One particular point it makes is that people who have been deficient in iodine require particular care as they are more likely to respond negatively to any form of iodine supplementation. This is one reason I am particularly wary of people claiming that mega-doses of iodine are so wonderful. If people have been deficient, then changing to a mega-dose is almost certainly not appropriate. Few, if any, who suggest mega-doses ever provide a plan for gently moving from deficiency to sufficiency before moving to the mega-doses. And it could be that once deficient, there is no sensible way of ever tolerating mega-doses.
Iodised salt is available in the UK, but relatively few use it. Your experience of reduced iodine intake due to reduced salt intake is a widespread problem which has followed (entirely predictably) in the wake of the "salt is bad" campaigns. There are now serious questions as to whether salt is a good vehicle for iodine supplementation. Further, much of the salt we consume is in prepared foods where we have no control over whether or not it is iodised. Some time ago I posted about how in an Asian country, or at least one little part of it, they are supplementing chicken feed with iodine and getting their enhanced iodine intake largely from eggs.
No from me, the only time I had positive TPO antibodies were after I was taking iodine. Have the genova urine iodine test first. As soon as I stopped the iodine my antibodies were negative again. It's dangerous to supplement with iodine without doing a test first.
I had subclinical hypothyroidism too. Tsh was 5.09. There was nothing subclinical about my symptoms. It was fully blown hypothyroidism, just stuck with the term subclinical because the nhs don't recognise hypothyroidism with a tsh below 10. I lived in Germany and they treat at 2.5, and its classed as hypothyroidism, not subclinical hypo.
Yes Adrea can you give us more info on the fermented one you use.
There is not really a lot of difference between the organic and GMO it has never been used by the chinese as a food source only a rotation crop,
It contains a high amount of a chemical that mimics oestrogen (as does Mercury SLS, BPA and Dairy products Dairy has 500 times the oestrogen than 60 years ago) the Legume family use it as a defence against predators as it turns the males gay that eat it,
CSIRO state 60% of all our foods contain soy.
as well as soy blocking the Iodine there was another thing that was really bad but I don't have the file anymore.
but yes use it for a short period for health reasons,
do you use B17 this is proven to cure cancer as well as cold thermogenesis and the Lahkovsky machine and do you work on removing the heavy metals out of the body first due to neutralising effect metal has on minerals If you are using food to cure cancer.
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