iodine/ Lugols ever ok for hypos?

[Judithdalston]

I have numerous chronic health problems, most recent over last 4+ years being Long Covid with dysautonomia ( including hypertension with bad postural hypotension)…anyway on the look out for alternative health advice/ support , as NHS given up on me. I have come across Sarah Myhill’s advice to LC sufferers, and know many with thyroid problems have consulted her/ her books/website; her regime starts with high vit C ( 5 g) and iodine ( Lugols 15% solution). But from memory iodine is regarded as a no-no for hypothyroids; is this something to do with conversion of T4? I have been diagnosed hypo ( initially with very high TgAb , FT4 of c10, and negligible FT3) over 2 decades ago and take, as a poor converter, a combo 100 levo/ 20 T3. Would Myhill’s Lugols recommendation to even start her protocol be bad for my long established hypothyroidism?

[humanbean]

Iodine is fine for people with hypothyroidism IF they have tested their levels first and only supplemented if a deficiency is found or levels are particularly low in range.

There are several ways of testing iodine, but some of them are very poor.

Avoid patch testing - it's completely useless.

Avoid using loading doses before a test -such tests have a tendency to find almost everyone is deficient.

helvella - Iodine Patch Test

Why the iodine patch test is not appropriate for indicating iodine status.

helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...

blog.zrtlab.com/flaws-in-th...

townsendletter.com/Jan2013/...

I'm not sure if this is accurate but I think I've read that anyone who struggles to tolerate iodine is probably short of selenium. There is a known relationship between iodine and selenium.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

...

Iodine can be measured in saliva, in blood, and in urine. Although iodine is mentioned on this forum quite often, it is rarely tested by anyone. But if such a test is done the most popular tests are done in urine.

thyroiduk.org/if-you-are-hy...

There are few places around that do iodine testing. The only ones I know of are :

gettested.co.uk/product/iod...

thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...

See the above link and find the Urine Iodine Test. Note that Genova Diagnostics are difficult to deal with directly, so read the instructions in the above link carefully.

pulsescreening.co.uk/genera...

I have never done an iodine test myself. I have used Genova Diagnostics for blood testing but it was probably about 10 years ago. I have no grounds to recommend any of the testing companies I've linked to, so you choose one of them at your own risk.

[radd in reply to humanbean]

Judithdalston

Great helpful advice from humanbean.

I would just add iodine is used in thyroid hormone production, but we don’t make iodine so have to get it from food. Some people who need extra may take iodine supplements.

But when hypothyroid we gain adequate iodine through our thyroid replacement meds, and unless you still have a partially working gland, additional iodine will not be useful.

Then when thyroid antibodies are present it is thought stimulation of any remaining thyroid gland may bring risk of further Hashi attacks. In Hashi autoimmunity the body self-attacks thyroid peroxidase (TPO) and/or thyroglobulin (TG) from which the resulting antibodies are created . It you are fuelling the thyroid cells with iodine to create more thyroid hormone you risk also fuelling the thyroid antibodies.

To supplement/utilise any iodine, we require adequate selenium to neutralise the free radicals/hydrogen peroxide produced as the iodine is processed. I think this is where people come unstuck as iodine not balanced with selenium can make one feel very unwell. I’ve got Myhills book but it’s still packed after our house move. I can’t remember, does she say anything about the importance of selenium?

There are references pages of iodine info all stored somewhere safe by the lovely tattybogle

[tattybogle in reply to radd]

it's here healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... iodine-a-collection-of-useful-information-because-the-search-facility-on-health-unlocked-is-totally-pants

[radd in reply to tattybogle]

Thanx tats.

Not sure how I forget that post with a title like that! 🤣

[Judithdalston in reply to tattybogle]

Thanks, that has kept me busy. The link to the Myhill podcast on thyroid through Self Sovereign was interesting as it’s virtually the same as the Long Covid Podcast she did, but for LC she stresses the protocol for treating the fermenting top of gut thus the priority for iodine and Vit C treatment first. Interesting she admits to no testing for iodine deficiency just assumes patient needs it, whereas other posts/ refs suggest it’s unlikely. I remember my Sheffield Gran’s friend ( born c1890) with ‘Derbyshire Neck’!

[greygoose]

I cannot imagine what she thinks iodine is going to do for long covid. Vit C, yes, that always good. But iodine???

And, I should imagine that her advice is for euthyroid people, not hypos. If you are on thyroid hormone replacement, you're already taking a hefty dose of iodine in the form of thyroid hormone. 100 mcg T4 will give you about 68 mcg iodine every day. And the 20 mcg T3 will give you a little bit more, but can't remember the numbers off-hand. And, as your thyroid is no-longer making hormone, you need less iodine, not more. Excess iodine can cause all sorts of problems, including thyroid cancer. So, I wouldn't take it, if I were you.

[Sunflower64 in reply to greygoose]

There seems to be a new trend where alternative/functional doctors prescribe iodine to thyroid sufferers.

I know a few people who are patients of Dr. Hertoghe’s clinic, and it seems they now routinely put hypos on iodine. This seems to have started back in 2020 so not sure if Covid-19 related. One person with midrange iodine levels was told she needed iodine, but she felt much worse on it and anti-TPO levels went up. The doctor said iodine had nothing to do with it, but she actually felt worse while on it…and better when she stopped it. It seems their prescriptions are pre-filled and always include Lugol’s…

[greygoose in reply to Sunflower64]

It's not a new trend. There have always been doctors that think that all you need to do for a thyroid problem is throw iodine at it! I had one about 50 years ago, when I was young and innocent, and didn't know what a thyroid was! He prescribe iodine and it made me a hundred times worse!

But, yes, I've heard about how the Hertoghe clinics are run these days. Such a shame.

[janeroar]

Hi Judith

My son and I have both got forms of autonomic dysfunction in the last year. He passes out completely when it’s at its worst and I’ve developed dizziness and migraines. The heart specialist we saw has seen a huge increase in this condition as a consequence of Covid. She recommends deep breathing and cold water swimming. I don’t like cold water, but I have found the deep breathing very effective. A little and often is enough to make a big difference to even out the Autonomic Nervous System.

I recommend this app called the Breathing Zone - and it’s free breathing.zone/

Btw I’m not sure about big doses of any vitamins. It might be possible it can be effective and I know we need more as our stomach acid is decreased and can’t break down the vitamins in food. But I was involved in researching vitamins and supplements a number of years ago and there was a Birmingham university scientist showing that high vitamin C levels could have the effect of being a pro oxidant rather than antioxidant. I’ve tried to find the paper to post but it will take a bit more digging.

With regards to iodine, I agree with @greygoose. It can be toxic to the thyroid. Iodine is consumed in huge quantities in Japan where they also have higher concentrations of people with Hashimotos. It was first described by the Japanese physician Hakaru Hashimoto in 1912.

It might be worth alongside breathing exercises to focus on diet. I do like Sarah Mayhill’s diet suggestions. Not dissimilar to Isabella Wentz. On balance I prefer what Isabella’s research is showing about how to achieve optimum health with this very complex condition we have.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to janeroar]

Last I checked, the average amount of iodine consumed in Japan was near 3 milligrams a day.

That is far less than some had previously suggested. Though significantly more than in the UK.

Part of the issue is deriving a genuine mean (average) from the data. And consumption appears to be quite variable in individuals.

But we have seen posts claiming some people who take 80 milligrams or more as a supplement! A truly astonishing amount.

Also, there seems to be a distinct difference between those who have never been iodine deficient (probably pretty much the entire population of Japan) and those who have been low, or even deficient, in iodine for most of their lives.

[buddy99 in reply to helvella]

Just a thought. Soy consumption is fairly high in Japan (as far as I know), which would mean that it needs to be balanced with iodine. In a sense higher iodine intake would make for a more balanced diet (?). As I said, it's just a thought that popped into my mind, knowing that sufficient iodine is needed to mitigate the effect of soy on thyroid.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to buddy99]

There are difficulties. Like the need to assess whether the gross consumption is an important factor - or the amount in each form. That is, for example, the large amount of soy that is fermented or processed (as in tofu).

[Judithdalston in reply to janeroar]

Yes, i do the passing out as tilt test table shows BP goes down to 60/40! I swim 45 mins. 5x a week but not in cold water ( though sometimes the pool is so cold even after 30 mins swimming I’m getting more and more stiff). I think the swimming is good for breathing, and do other breathing exercises, but still notice air gasping as try to cook standing at cooker ( weird how slightest arm activity of sauce making sounds like I have done a 4 min mile!). I’m not convinced about Myhill’s ketogenic diet. My diet is good ( follow the Zoe 30 different plants a week, plus meat), but been a type 3c diabetic ( following a ‘routine’ procedure to unblock a bile duct went very wrong) for 10 years taking 2 types of insulin and wear a continuous blood glucose monitor, so negligible sugar consumption and low carbs. I have done 16/8 intermittent fasting for last 15 months too. Never got to see a cardio, just the ‘ geriatric falls’ consultant with the tilt table! So now DIY cures, clutching at straws!

[janeroar in reply to Judithdalston]

it sounds like you have really got your diet sorted so it must be v frustrating having symptoms.

[LuckyKat]

If you're deficient in iodine supplement until sufficient and then stop. There are many benefits from having sufficient iodine and I wouldn't want to be without them. Think of a loading dose of vitamin D - once your deficiency has been resolved you then lower your dose to a maintenance level. With iodine it is at that point that the levels in food are adequate, but if you are deficient you probably need to supplement to get to that point.

[Hedgeree in reply to LuckyKat]

Hi LuckyKat,

I suspected and found I was very deficient in iodine due to eating a plant based diet for most of my life. I did test with the intention of supplementing. But even though I was deficient the endo I saw at my initial appointment before any diagnosis said not to as it would complicate matters/my situation.

Now that I'm prescribed levo and so am ingesting iodine due to that I will eventually retest to see what my levels are and what improvements have occurred.

I believe my diet has probably been the cause of my multinodular goitre and below range FT4.

Edit)

As humanbean says if you intend to supplement with iodine you need to check your levels beforehand. Preferably also under the guidance of an experienced practitioner.

[Judithdalston]

Thank you all…doesn't sound like iodine supplement needed! I have far too many other health complications going on dating before Long Covid ( insulin dependent diabetic, hypothyroidism and fibromyalgia) to attempt Myhill’s protocol, even if a did a pick and choose method!