Can anyone help?

[nichola79]

I have raised haemoglobin and haemocrit but have been supplementing iron for over a year due to low ferritin, could this be the cause of my high levels please?

[gabkad]

nichola, do you have any lab test results?

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

Corrected serum calcium 2.5 mmol/l

serum magnesium 0.9 mmol/l

plasma c reactive protein 1mg/l

rheumatoid factor 9iu/ml (0-18)

GFR caculated abbreviated MDRD 90

serum creatinine 3 umol/l

serum urea level 3 mmol/l

serum pottassium 4.1mmol/l

serum albulin 49g/l

serum tsh 1.87 (034-5.6)

blood glucose 5.4 mmol/l

large unstained cells 0.11 10*9/l

basophil count 0.04

eosinophil count 0.12

monocyte count 0.36

lymphocyte count 2

neutrophil count 4.43

red blood distribution width 11.7

platelet count 255

mean corpusc (MCHC) 313g/l LOW

mean corpuschaemoglobin (MCH) 29.6

mean corpuscular (MCV) 94.4

haematocrit 0.513 HIGH

haemoglobin estimation 161 HIGH

red blood cells 5.44

total white cell count 7.07

erthrocyte sedimentation 16 mm/h HIGH

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

When the blood was taken were you fasting? Also the ferritin was not tested. But your C reactive protein is low and that is an indicator of inflammation.

Is there any possibility that you were dehydrated?

When I had my blood done earlier this year the hemoglobin was 160 and etc. I was concerned enough to avoid red meat for a few months but a specialist friend told me that this is probably because I was dehydrated since the test was first thing in the morning and I was fasted. Prior tests the hemoglobin was in the high 140s and low to mid 150s. My ferritin is really good. I've always had higher than average hemoglobin but it's not pathological.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

I wasn't fasting the blood was taken at 2.30 pm I don't think I was dehydrated my ferritin last time I had it checked in march was 39 could well be higher now, I have bad problems with my neck which could be my inflammation problem although the doctor tried blaming a a spot haha

I am concerned as both was raised, when I did a full blood panel a while back my ferri tin was low but my iron was high in range, I've had a few tests with my haemocrit showing high and this is making me really anxious

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

Can supplementing iron, b12 or folate cause this high level?

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Taking iron should maximize your hemoglobin if you were anemic.

I've always had high hemoglobin even when my ferritin was low. It's genetic. What was your hemoglobin when your ferritin was down?

Since your C-reactive protein is low, you don't have any significant inflammation. That usually goes up when something's going on.

Even though you may think you are not dehydrated, you may be. A lot of ladies are going around without drinking enough fluids. It's chronic. Your potassium was also quite low and that is generally an indicator of dehydration.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

Thanks so much for getting back to me I have been so worried, my haemocrit has been up and down in the last few years the lowest my ferri tin has been is 29 maybe I'm better being on the low scale, surely I couldn't of been dehydrated in most of my tests? Although I do mainly drink decafe coffee and really not enough milk.

In march my haemocrit was 0.45 (0.37-0.45)

RBC 5.16 (3.80-5.30)

MCV 86.8 (80.0-100.0)

My pottasium then was 3.8 (3.5-5.3)

If you need anymore please let me know I just don't know what I'm up against

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

See? Your potassium was low in range on that test too.

You would be surprised how many people are underhyrdrated. Especially women because they dislike using public toilets.

Look at the colour of your urine. If it's a rich yellow a lot of the time, then you need to drink more fluids. Don't go overboard. Colourless urine all the time is also going too far in hydration. That's hard on the kidneys. Keep an eye on the colour of your pee and you'll get used to knowing if you've been drinking enough liquids or not.

I don't drink much liquid all day at work because I forget most of the time. I now add a bit of fruit vinegar to the water because that way it's more palatable and I'll drink maybe 4 cups of fluid during 9 hours which is not enough. I make up for it after I come home from work. But last night, I was so tired, I went to sleep knowing I had not had enough fluids. I even took a glass of water with me and drank half of it before I conked out. This morning my pee was very dark yellow. If I would have had blood taken this morning, guaranteed my hemoglobin would have been higher than yours!

These tests are based on volume. If the red cells are concentrated because blood volume is low, then you get higher readings. But lower potassium readings.

People with hypothyroid can have low blood volume. This was determined for me back in 2000. I was at 83% of what is considered normal. I was on a too low dose at the time.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

So this is all related to hypothyroid too? I drink more at night then I do in the day, I also sweat a lot too, I have high thyroid antibodies but still no diagnosis these doctors hasn't even brought up my high levels I found it out myself

So will the pottasium low in range give me dehydration and this could be the reason of high haemocrit and haemoglobin?And sshould I continue not taking iron, folate and b12?

I really appreciate your advice x

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

These things are all in the same picture.

If you are hypothyroid and untreated, then low blood volume is a good possibility. The kidneys require thyroid hormone to function well. They are big users of energy and without adequate thyroid, they just can't do their job well. Kidneys don't just produce urine. The also reabsorb water and electrolytes (like potassium, sodium, chloride etc.) Kidneys also produce a hormone called erythropoietin (EPO). This hormone tells the bone marrow to produce red blood cells. When kidneys are failing they don't produce EPO and the person becomes very anemic with low numbers of red blood cells. That's not your problem.

One thing that makes for kidneys to produce too much EPO is if someone has low oxygen in the blood. Smokers, people with asthma or any other breathing problems will have higher numbers of red blood cells and higher hemoglobin. People who live at high altitudes have more red blood cells than people who live at sea level.

You need to get the ferritin level checked. How much iron have you been taking for the past year? You can take B12 forever because you can't get an overdose. You pee out anything your body can't use. So yes, you get expensive pee. Folate is not a problem either.

Iron can be problematic if you have been taking, let's say 3 tablets every day for the past 12 months. If you have been absorbing it, then yes, you can be overdoing it. But as I mentioned above, you need to get ferritin tested.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

I was supplementing with a OTC mixture of supplements when my first haemacrit level arose it soon went down, about a year and a half ago I started taking spartone iron water twice a day, my thyroid levels went towards hyper then

In between taking that I did a full iron panel and I was told my levels.was high although ferritin was in range but on the low side, I then stopped iron, I then went back on it not taking it religiously but I was taking it now.and again with vitC

I must also add I was.on the contraceptive depot injection and for 3 years never had a menstral period until just a few.months ago I have also read that menstral cycles help get rid of red cells, not sure how.much of that is right so maybe that can play a part?

This is the first time my haemoglobin has been high where as the haemocrit has been noted.high a few times

I do wonder if I have mucked my own body up through supplementing

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Normally, we lose 5 mg of iron per day in the stool. Women who menstruate, on average lose 10 mg per dayoverall. So replacing the iron and then increasing ferritin requires substantially more than 10 mg per day absorbed elemental iron. Usually approximately 10% of elemental iron is absorbed from a supplement tablet. So if, let's say a person is taking 75 mg elemental iron per day, they absorb about 7.5 mg of this. Possibly somewhat more if it is taken with vitamin C.

Recently I was told by a nephrologist that too much vitamin C supplement intake can cause kidney stones. I didn't know that.

Heme iron (from meat) is absorbed at a rate of 30%. Plant iron is only absorbed approximately 1 to 3%.

There is only a length of 20 cm in the small intestine where iron is absorbed.

I doubt you've mucked up your body by taking supplements.

I don't know to what extent depot injections cause longer term suppression of pituitary hormone. But it does happen. If you are getting your periods regularly now, then your pituitary has normalized.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

But if I was not having a period and was supplementing iron so no blood loss couldn't that in itself raise my red cells?

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

It will raise your hemoglobin if you absorb it.

Number of red cells can be influenced by anemia as well. Someone who has serious amounts of iron deficiency anemia will produce more red blood cells but they will be small and not very red. That's not what you have here with a hemoglobin of 161.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

I gave up smoking 2 years next February I don't believe to have problems with lungs although I do suffer with dizziness and when I moved.into my property I had a lot of chest infections due to mould in my house, sometime I wonder if this house is making me I'll

My.mum.had sleep apnea but I believe.it.was from a poor thyroid and she had a shadow on her lung she passed a year ago, I do get scared thinking maybe the same is happening to me although my oxygen has.always been a very good level

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Are you still living in a moldy house? Because that can cause chronic illness. There is such a thing as toxic mold.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

My partner burned most of it away but there is still some getting through yes its bad in some rooms

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Burned?

If the house is leaking or something is going on, then it needs fixing. There are companies that come in with a machine that draws in air from the room. There's a filter in the machine that traps whatever is in the air. Then it is sent to a laboratory where if there are mold spores, these are cultured to determine what they are. There are molds which are toxic and maybe it's a good idea to get this checked out.

Moldy houses can make people very sick. They can cause cancer, allergies and amplify the effect of other infections. I know people who live in moldy houses and they are forever sick. They pick up viruses and other things but can't fight them off easily. In one instance the husband developed hemolytic anemia and eventually had his spleen removed. Now he has chronic myeloid leukemia. The wife is always sick. They both had Epstein barr mono this year and the kids are sick all the time too. When her mother comes to visit, the first thing: the mother gets sick too. The house has leaks from plumbing and used to have a leaky roof and windows. They are now, finally, beginning to get renovations done but I warned them it's dangerous if there's toxic mold. Bashing down inner walls releases spores like crazy and mold is most dangerous when it's dry. That's when it makes the most spores. I recommended she get the air tested before the work begins in earnest. She does not want to move out of the house while the work is being done (It's a huge old house). But if there's toxic mold, then even the contractor and workers will have to take hazmat precautions.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

Wow a lot of info, I contacted health and safety all they told me to do was get clear vinegar and clean it even tho my daughter has asthma, we are getting new windows put in they told me because its a old house I will be subjected to mould, they just love covering their own backs

My partner used something to burn it all away as I was really I'll felt like I had someone say on my chest it has eased since he has removed it to a degree plus me giving up smoking

We even had loads of mould on our bed and had to buy a new one the council took no blame, they have just took a scrap of my ceiling to check for aspetos sorry can't spell it

I will admit since moving from Bristol to Bridgwater i have been a lot worse in my chest area I wanted to move and have tried for over 3 years even my 16 year old is suffering and my son who was always healthy has so many allergies council will not do anything, I had to fight to get new Windows as its something they are doing in the area

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

You should use chlorine bleach solution on mold if you are able. That will kill it. I'm not sure vinegar will do that. It sounds like you are having a very terrible time and if your son is also ill, then you need to move. The place is not fit for human habitation if even the bed gets mold on it.

I don't live in England. If your doctor provides a letter to whomever needs to read it about the situation, would that help you to get out of there? There are people here on the forum who know more about this sort of thing.

In the old days doctors would go to their patients homes and could see if the problem was something as basic as housing issues. Not that they could necessarily do anything about it to help but surely there is some means by which you can get out of there.

The ceiling sample ought to provide a lot of information.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

They have only took the ceiling sample as they are redoing my kitchen and bathroom its for their own safety for when they have to do the ceilings inthe 2 rooms the mould was in all my windows on parts of room ceilings and walls it hhasn't CE back in my bedroom but can smell the musty smell are immune system hasn't been right since living here my partner don't want to move him and his dad has put a lot into the garden but shouldn't our health be more important?

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Your lives are more important. But you see? The workers are aware of the hazard and are preparing whatever they need to do so they don't get sick.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

I wish there was a way to get out of this place quicker, when I went on holiday for a week I felt so much Weller on myself it must be this house

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

I don't doubt it.

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Orthostatic hypotension (dizzy if you stand up too quickly) can be caused by low blood volume, low blood pressure and a heart that does not respond quickly to change. In your case it's not because of low hemoglobin and this causing lack of oxygen to tissues.

Just being dizzy can be from anxiety or not breathing properly. Breath holding, shallow breathing etc. can cause dizziness.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

Yes and I also get a lot of air hunger I had low folate and low b12 I have been supplementing and the air hunger and dizziness subsided a lot for me I also suffer with vertigo

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Get those checked as well as the ferritin to see how you are doing. Low B12 can cause all sorts of emotional issues not just neurological ones. Anxiety... memory problems... energy problems... pins and needles, numbness.... etc.

The thyroid people here recommend that a person who is getting their B12 blood level tested, not to take B12 for several weeks before the test or the blood level will reflect the pill you took and not what is actually in your liver etc.

What form of B12 are you taking and how long have you been taking it? Here methylcobalamin sublingual tablets are recommended. Also methylfolate sublingual tablets.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

In march also.my urea was low 1.9 (2.5-7.8)

Also same blood work.I had high plasma viscosity 1.74 (1.50-1.72)

[gabkad in reply to nichola79]

Do you crave salty foods? Have you ever tried drinking coconut water (this has a lot of potassium and magnesium)?

Usually our sodium:potassium ratio in the diet can be heavily on sodium. It should be 1 part sodium to at least 2 parts potassium. So if someone consumes 2,000 mg of sodium in a day, then they should be consuming 4,000 mg at least of potassium.

Processed foods are very high in sodium and this overbalances the natural potassium. Most foods in their natural state are much higher in potassium content than sodium. There are exceptions of course. Potatoes, for example are a potassium bomb!

People who sweat a lot can have low electrolytes. Sweat can be salty but when a person has been sweating a lot, the sweat is no longer salty. That's why a person needs to replace electrolytes.

Coconut water with a pinch of salt added will provide electrolytes. It might not taste fabulous but it works.

[nichola79 in reply to gabkad]

I am not a salt lover but every now and then I will want salty crisps I do crave sugar a lot, I did a cortisol test a while ago and I had high cortisol and low dhea I have terrible anxiety panic attacks I also have a thyroid nodule my vitD was low in march I was given meds but have not been tested since

Should I be worried with my levels an what's the next best plan of action?

I have wrote.to my gp telling her I'm.not happy with this.being.left when results are out of range I just don't know how to get my haemoglobin.And haemocrit down