Latest bloods on armour - still feeling symptomatic even tho being told normal?

[JemimahR]

I had a total thyroidectomy in 2010 following severe graves thyrotoxicosis. My levels have still not stabilised. I was on t4 only but didn't convert so eventually my endo tried combination therapy but I still felt ropey. I'm on armour and my results are TSH 0.01 (range 0.38-4.70), T4 10 (range 10-23), T3 3.5 (2.8-7.10). I keep getting told I am over medicated however I don't feel like this and feel that I am still under active? Can anyone give me their thoughts? Thanks

[sezzy]

Your doctors working of the tsh but from your t3 you still look undermedicated .

[Hennerton]

Your results are a bit odd. Cannot see how your T4 can be at the bottom of the range and T3 barely over the bottom, yet your TSH is very low, hence the idea that you are over medicated. What dose of Armour are you on and for how long? Did you take it the morning of the blood test? I hope your endo is not threatening to reduce your meds.

[JemimahR in reply to Hennerton]

Hi Hennerton how are you? Thanks for responding. My results have been like this for months. I've fought to increase my dose. Currently on 2 grains and he's willing to increase to 2 and a 1/4. Bloods were when I'd split the dose so in the morning before meds but I'd had 1 grain previous afternoon at 4pm. He's also suggested I take citalopram for anxiety and insomnia. What do you think? Xx

[Hennerton in reply to JemimahR]

I would definitely not take any other kind of "sticking plaster" medication, as it will just confuse everything. You will never be sure whether you really are hypo, with the consequent damage to the body, even though you may feel fine, because of the citalopram. Of course you are anxious. We all are, trying to deal with this hateful problem. What do doctors expect, when they know nothing and help us even less? I expect your insomnia would sort itself out if you had a proper dose of something. If I were you I would take the increase he is offering and see how you get on. You can always chip away at him for another increase later, maybe? xx

[JemimahR in reply to Hennerton]

Good idea. Been desperate to avoid anti-depressants etc but can't manage stress at the mo. Not working and confidence has been shot to pot - the thought of working gives me a panic attack but equally so does not working so it's a catch 22 situation. Just want to feel like the old me etc. xx

[debjs]

I am taking Armour following TT in 2011 and my TSH is always suppressed. It became supressed almost as soon as I started taking it even though my T4 and T3 levels were similar to yours. I have consistently increased my dose and the TSH level has remained the same. I spoke to Dr S about this and he said the T3 supresses TSH and you are not overmedicated unless you have symptoms of hyper. He said what makes the Dr think you are overmedicated? so I replied the numbers on that paper. He asked if anybody ever examined me and when I said no replied how would they know then?

Did you take your Armour on the day of the blood test? I made that mistake once and it makes a huge difference to results.

In his book on Hypothyroidism Dr Mark Starr says that any dose of Armour above 2 grains will supress TSH (though mine was supressed on much lower doses than that).

As others have said your T4 and T3 levels are still very low in the range and if you have symptoms that would suggest you need to increase your dose further (though I am no expert but that is from my experience).

[JemimahR in reply to debjs]

Thanks so much for your response. May I ask what dose you're on? X

[debjs in reply to JemimahR]

I am currently on 3&1/4 grains but hope to increase to 3&1/2 soon (this was Dr S advice though I know my endo will say I am overmedicated but does tolerate a supressed TSH and slightly over range T3). My insomnia and nightmares improved dramatically once I reached 3 grains. I also used to get a sort of bubble of restlessness and agitation in the evenings but that has stopped since taking 1/4 grain at 5pm (I split my dose into 3).

Dr S said the very first time I saw him he thought I would need about 3&1/2 grains as I had no thyroid so your dose does seem rather low, though everybody is different. My endo monitors me on Armour though admits he has little experience of it.

Have you read some of the info in 'Stop the Thyroid Madness'? If can't get the book it is worth a look at the website (sorry I am a technophobe and can't add a link!).

[JemimahR in reply to debjs]

Thanks so much for sharing. My endo has little exp of armour too and is very concerned re my TSH as he is concerned re over education and thinks this is an indicator even though my t3 and t4 levels are low end of normal. I weigh approximately 10 stone / 63kg and am 37. According to him I'm on the appropriate dose for my weight. May I ask if you're heavier than this? I may try and start medicating myself! Xx

[debjs in reply to JemimahR]

Yes I am heavier than this. Over 13 stone! I put on 21/2 stone in 10 weeks after my thyroidectomy! I am not sure from what I have read and what Dr S said that weight plays any particular role in the amount each person ends up needing. Have you read any of the books people recommend? I found them helpful as it was in fact my GP who originally started me on Armour (the first endo I saw said he had never heard of it so didn't know why I had come to see him!).

I am sure you have read on here about the vitamins and minerals which should be checked. You really need to know the numbers as my B12 was in range but in fact at the very lowest end. I was advised that anybody who has hypothyroidism should be taking a B12 supplement and it took me almost a year to get mine into the upper part of the range. I also have calcium problems and my vitamin D was very low, all of which can affect the way your body uses any replacement.

I would advise you to read as much as you can about Armour - I think Thyroid UK have a list of books which you can borrow. If the endo has little experience of Armour I don't see how he can dispute literature evidence written by those who do.

[KatScorpio]

ive been reading that overactive crash is similiar to underactive symptoms…hate this disease