DHEA

[stockman27]

Hi does anybody take DHea and more importantly does any body take this with there thyroxin together.

Cheers

John

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

Be aware that DHEA is a Controlled Drug with penalties even for possession. It is illegal for us to import even for personal use. Of course, if prescribed, then it is perfectly legal to have and take!

(The rationale for this may be arguable; but this is currently the case.)

Rod

[stockman27 in reply to helvella]

Hi Rod,

I am not sure if you are correct with the importing bit. I got prescribed a high dose by a Dr in Joburg who got me back to work. I was taking DHEA a hight dose of Prenenalone and testosterone. I was on a high dose of thyroxin and I felt that all that was happening was that my body was being conditioned to accept large doses of thyroxin. I then went to a Belgium Dr that treat here in London,

He wanted to cut down on the DHEA as he felt it was not good to take high doses for long periods.

I am sort of treating my self now as my funds have run out for private drs. I really need to see somebody but i have seen most Dr now.

My question is there anybody taking the DHEA with their Thyroxin as if I do then the Thyroxin is like rocket fuel but after a few days I need to take more thyroxin and then my legs ache.

cheers

John

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to stockman27]

I could be wrong, but every other Controlled Drug is NOT available to be personally imported, though there is a general allowance for people who have been formally prescribed such drugs to carry some with them.

If you ordered some then you would be committing an offence the moment you accept the package from your postie, if not before.

[winjy in reply to stockman27]

Dhea is over the counter in the U.S. But I guess it is better if monitored by doctors. I was thinking of taking DHEA with levo or NDT. I did not feel any difference from PREGNENOLONE but I guess testosterone will help.

[kathy1029 in reply to helvella]

DHEA is over-the-counter in the United States.   I should stockpile since they (government) love to take away natural remedies that can affect their income and help us feel better without their synthetic methods

[stockman27 in reply to kathy1029]

You can buy it here from well known web sites. I have been onl pregnenolone for over two year, what I would condisder a large dose,100 mg. I found my BP was very high and now I have gone into Afib. so be warned.

regards

John C

[Angelic69 in reply to helvella]

Thought it was only band for competiting athletes. Others okay to use.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Angelic69]

The list of Controlled Drugs is readily available here:

gov.uk/government/publicati...

Possession by anyone is prohibited unless you have a prescription (or for professionals involved in handling it).

[dobb in reply to helvella]

"Be aware that DHEA is a Controlled Drug with penalties even for possession. It is illegal for us to import even for personal use."

None of that is true in respect of either US or UK. It is just banned for professional sports. Though it is important to understand that ingesting hormones is very different from ingesting nutrients, and should only be done under competent expertise.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to dobb]

Did you check the list of controlled drugs I posted on this thread?

[dobb in reply to helvella]

Yes and dhea or its full name are not in that list. More to the point it is on sale in uk and no source says it is banned in uk or us other than you (and in respect of professional sports). If you have info to the contrary please show me, thanks.

Oh, and perhaps you'd better tell all these people.....

google.co.uk/search?q=dhea+...

google.co.uk/search?biw=100...

Cheers......

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to dobb]

I suggest you look again:

Prasterone (Dehydroepiandrosterone DHEA) C 4 Pt2

gov.uk/government/publicati...

Perhaps you would look at the results of the searches and check how many of the sites identified are genuinely in the UK?

I DO NOT say it is banned in the USA.

[dobb in reply to helvella]

Prasterone - it would appear correct.

Meanwhile I see this comment:

healthcentral.com/encyclope...

"There are two types of DHEA available: pharmaceutical grade DHEA supplements and DHEA extracts.

Only a doctor can prescribe pharmaceutical grade DHEA. Synthetic or pharmaceutical grade DHEA is produced from pharmaceutical grade ingredients. This form is molecularly identical to the DHEA that we produce.

DHEA extracts are available over-the-counter and are made from the Mexican yam called Dioscorea that contains a sterol called diosgenin which contains about 5 to 10 percent of true DHEA. The other 90 percent of the drug ingredients include varying amounts of other hormones."

Meanwhile these two articles suggest that it is not exactly hard to obtain in uk:

express.co.uk/life-style/he...

dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti...

Contrast with therapeutic blood-letting which NO-ONE in uk will prescribe (or do) unless you have a ridiculously high ferritin level. You can of course stick a thing into yourself, far more risky hence that prevention is ridiculous.

By the way, I strongly suspect all these things about "as you get older your level of xyz goes down". It doesn't follow that you need to take some of that xyz, it might just need some vitamin or mineral to correct it baack up! Most people eat rearranged carp anyway. Cheers..

[Angel_of_the_North]

I have DHEA on prescription, but I don' take thyroxine, just T3.

[Chippysue in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Is it ok if you say how it came about that you were prescribed DHEA? and have you found good results, just wanted to know more about it if that's ok

[Lolalois in reply to Chippysue]

I'm prescribed dhea and I take thyroxine too. I'm currently gradually building up my dose. I take it following tests that showed I was deficient, and I do feel it's making a difference. I haven't had any side effects. I would have been a bit cautious about taking this without testing, but I fell comfortable taking it knowing that it is to treat a deficiency and it's being carefully monitored.

L x

[clare75 in reply to Lolalois]

Hi Lolalois

I've been recommended to take DHEA as I'm keen to have a child and have low egg reserves. I take thyroxine and I'm worried about the side effects. It looks like you've taken them together and wondered what your experience was?

thanks for any advice!

Clare

[nobodysdriving in reply to Chippysue]

HI Suze, sorry I am not angel_of_the_north but I thought I give my story as I am also on T3 and DHEA.

As you may remember I am on a high dose of T3.

Also my adrenal cortisol saliva test showed low DHEA levels 18 months ago.

My private doctor is of the opinion that a low physiological dose of DHEA (ie 10mg daily) is something that more or less all of us should take if we are over 40yrs of age (I am 44). So she started me on 10mg daily.

About 4 weeks ago I had another cortisol saliva test which showed my levels are even lower now so I have upped to 25mg daily (sublingual), it could be that the brand I take is no good I don't know, I am about to have a follow up consultation with my doctor on 23rd of Jan and I will ask her whether she should prescribe me some (at present I buy it myself off the internet, though if anyone was to question me my private doctor will immediately tell them I am prescribed it as she told me to take it )

[stockman27 in reply to nobodysdriving]

Hi can I asked what area yo live in?

[nobodysdriving in reply to stockman27]

London

[stockman27 in reply to Chippysue]

Hi Susie, i was originally prescribed this by a private dr here in the uk as my DHEAS levels were low. I then deteriorated so much that I lost my job and for two years just slept (but my TSH was right) Iwent to south africa out of desperation and e prescribed a high dose. and testosterone. I got a bit worried as I was taking a lot of meds and I was suppose to get the dosage down by it self. but it never did. I then saw a Belgium Doc here and again was given DHEA but at 50 mg still high a bit. I felt a lot better but now I cannot tolerate DHEA. that is unless I take it with my thyroxine. That way its like rocket fuel for me but after a few days , my thyroxin seems to be eaten up and I need more.

I really need to see somebody but I have seen most people here in the uk and I don't think there is any left.

Cheers

John C

[stockman27 in reply to Chippysue]

Suze,

I have seen so many Drs in the uk and abroad that I am confused and really not getting anywhere the only thing I can show is a low bank balance. i am more than likely over stepping the mark but where can i go to find a really good dr that know what they are doing.

Any pointers.

John

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Chippysue]

It's part of my biohrt. I turned into the Incredible Hulk (Hulk smash!) with testosterone, but a little DHEA along with oestrogen and tons of progesterone seems to suit me. That's all I can say really

[Chippysue in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

when I had bloods done over a year ago my testosterone was high. I take natural progesterone cream, don't know what else to do.

[Angelic69 in reply to Chippysue]

All these hormones create internal equilibrium,, concentrations gradients are controlled internally. Some people are dominant for one hormone another probably due to adaptation and lifestyle. Each dominant state creates an individual, you, some dominant states are not tolerated by the powered that govern us so we are then chemically altered by prescribed hormones that create an alternative you. However unfortunately the principles and socialological factors that created you, the original you may not be addressed which then presents individuals unsuitable or unable to thrive in there environments. I would recommend that once an individual has undergone such a transformation that in order for that transformation not to be seen as a death sentence, relocation into a thrifeable environment is also included.

[Angelic69 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Sounds like a smart combo

[kiltis]

DHEA as in the adrenal hormone dehydroepiandrosterone? Yes I take 50mg and I also take T3. I get my DHEA from Biovea but it can be bought in Holland and Barrett for example so I'm a little confused now when I read it's a controlled drug?

[stockman27 in reply to kiltis]

Hi, I did not know that holland and Barret sell it. Do you take it with you t3 dose.

Cheers

John C

[nobodysdriving in reply to stockman27]

Holland and Barret does not sell DHEA for the pure reason that it is an unlicensed medication which can only be obtained on prescription in UK.

[ging in reply to nobodysdriving]

I have just bought some [10mg] from Biovea.

[Angelic69 in reply to nobodysdriving]

Unlicensed drugs cannot come into the country so i was lead to believe, so how would it be possible for any UK doc private or NHS to proscribe it??

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Angelic69]

It's just prescription only. It's illegal to buy morphine AFAIK for your own use, but doctors can prescribe it.

[kiltis in reply to stockman27]

Just double checked and saw that Holland and Barrett doesn't sell it but write about it under their 'healthy note' pages. Many UK based companies seem to sell it so how can it be illegal? very confused.

Yes I take it in the morning with one of my T3 doses. I've tested low in DHEA.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to kiltis]

Many apparently UK-based companies are nothing of the sort - most especially in the area of websites selling "health" products. It is very common to see that they are actually based anywhere from Jersey to Jakarta, Java to Jordan. Sometimes, if you look very carefully and do a bit of research you can find out. Often you cannot.

Are you able to identify a single real UK-based company that sells DHEA?

Rod

[stockman27 in reply to helvella]

Rod,

think you are trying to prove a point but what is the point. Ok I get my Dhea from a British company with a british envelope with a british stamp in it.

I think there is a grey area here. What is important is that there are sick people on here that need help and they are not getting it from the NHS.

Cheers

John

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to stockman27]

I am only concerned for such people!

That they do not inadvertently have problems because of its legal status.

That they do not get mislead by apparently UK-based sites.

I am NOT saying people must not do what they need to do - but at least do so with eyes reasonably wide open.

I have seen a number of sites disappear and there have been quite a few "campaigns" across MHRA and other agencies to close down UK-based but illegal suppliers.

Rod

[sky00 in reply to stockman27]

is this the same as 7keto DHEA recomended by dr.oz for weight loss as well as raspberry keytones -or is this some other DHEA, my bottle say dietary supplement, take 1 2's a day 100mg, made by swansons a reputable supplement company-- please clue me in, sorry for my ignorance on this.. thanks

[sky00 in reply to sky00]

£11.89 Get safe, effective hormonal support for your weight-management program with 7-Keto DHEA. is what the website i buy it from says, they also have some other bottles for cheaper still.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to sky00]

7 keto DHEA is not a controlled drug!

It might have a lot in common but for some odd reason 'straight' DHEA is controlled but closely related substances are not.

[sky00 in reply to helvella]

oh ok thanks- guess i'm safe with this dosage then..

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to sky00]

Please don't take that message from anything I have posted - I simply do not know anything useful about dosages and could not possibly agree or disagree!

[sky00 in reply to helvella]

i wasn't taking from "anything you said" i was thinking of the companies suggested dosage on the label, now that you stated that the product wasn't the DHEA that was being discussed about on this page.. ta

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to sky00]

Understood.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to sky00]

No, not the same thing at all. livestrong.com/article/5266...

I need a DHEA that DOES convert into sex hormones - that's why I take it instead of testosterone.

[kiltis in reply to helvella]

Yes I'm able to find at least two real UK based companies. But to be honest I don't care where it comes from as long as the product is genuine. My dear doc didn't even know what DHEA was so little change of getting it prescribed.

[Angelic69 in reply to kiltis]

Anyone know why or who its controlled by or from??? Is there any official government listing why??

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Angelic69]

In effect, the government on the basis of the advice they receive.

See here:

gov.uk/government/publicati...

Look for Prasterone (Dehydroepiandrosterone DHEA)

[Angelic69 in reply to helvella]

Does it only list controlled drug names but not the reasons?? Said due to regulations 14_20,23, 26, 27 but where can I read what these numbers represent.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Angelic69]

You can go off and read the legislation, for example:

legislation.gov.uk/uksi/200...

And you can go off and look up the debates in Hansard.

hansard.parliament.uk/

Sorry but I do not have any better or more precise sources.

[Angelic69 in reply to helvella]

Thanks I'll give them a go

[Angelic69 in reply to helvella]

Looked at those both but didn't give me any idea of how a controlled drug gets to be classified as controlled. Thanks though.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Angelic69]

I thought that things like this made it clear that the advice was presented in parliament:

hansard.parliament.uk/Lords...

But only explaining that they have:

Clinically observed health effects of the N-BOMe compounds include hypertension, agitation and aggression, visual and audio hallucination and seizures. Anecdotal evidence from self-reported users also highlighted highly negative effects and unwanted feelings including confusion, shaking, nausea, insomnia, and paranoia. These compounds are extremely potent in powder and liquid form and have a high risk of overdose when misused.​

[Angelic69 in reply to helvella]

This dhea stuff is naturally occurring from adolescent though, surely it is nessesary despite the unwanted side effects for vitality. People have been transformed into zombies without it and incapable of defending themselves. Have these people deciding who gets it prescribed have people effected by the lack of this compound on their board I'm curious to know.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Angelic69]

As far as I am concerned, I'd love to see a wholesale change in the classifications and, for that matter, the whole medicine/drug system.

The DHEA classification seems to be one where the UK is out of step with many other countries.

[Angelic69 in reply to helvella]

Out of step, we talking chromaffin cells, there are connections.

[Angelic69 in reply to Angelic69]

Environments and people of those environments have gone through a process of adaptation to create desired internal flora. You wouldn't give a children hard drugs without weaning first, that's the British way.

[Redditch]

Yep..... I take 25mg every morning with my Thyroxine.

[stockman27 in reply to Redditch]

Hi At last !! I have found somebody that takes DHEA with there thyroxin . cOk to ask some questions please.

[Redditch in reply to stockman27]

Sure I read Dr Peatfield's book and had a plan on how to start taking it.... go private message or the thought police will get upset that we may be contravening the rules of the NHS that would have left me DEAD rather than give me what I needed to get better.

[kiltis in reply to Redditch]

[marram in reply to Redditch]

Thyroid UK is not the thought police, Thyroid UK are forced to comply with HU rules or get thrown off. Simples.

PM all you wish. We've probably all had a rough ride, I nearly died and I am jolly glad that TUK Support is still here, and I am showing my gratitude for that fact by doing my bit. If there were no control, HU would simply shut TUK Support down, which would be a great loss.

The law on controlled substances are not the NHS rules, but the law of the land. There are places where you can agitate for change, but not here, surely.

[Souter]

Hi, would my GP prescribe for

Hot flushes and night sweats.

[stockman27 in reply to Souter]

Hi I do not think DHEA is for night sweats and hot flushes. I assume your a lady so this may be oestrogen or insulin resistance but no DHEA...

[Angelic69 in reply to Souter]

Colonidine hydrochloride, stops sweats fast, don't know about long term side effects but did notice an increase in core tempt which felt odd. If anyone has had these pls feedback for long term. Gp said there safer than over remedies.

[Souter]

Hi, yes I'm a lady struggling with Day and night sweats. I was so sure that I read DHEA could help with sweats. Thanks for your response.

[Karen09]

I take 25mg DHEA about 3 times a week. I never worry about when I take it, sometimes I take it when I take thyroxine. I just take it because as you get older the level of dhea decreases and this just keeps it up a bit. I've taken dhea for about 20 years. Never too much as I'm a female, but it does keep your hair from going gray and keeps your muscles stronger as well as other benefits I've found.

I'm in the UK. I took it when I was in the states and since moving here, I just order it via Biovia.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Karen09]

I wish it stopped me from going grey, but it doesn't. It does make feel a lot less blah about life and gives me some get and go (not a lot, but ...)

[winjy]

According to google, DHEA supplements can have side effects. They may lower levels of HDL "good" cholesterol in the body, and in women they may raise levels of testosterone, as well as estrogen. They also can cause ovary cancer. better not taken long time.