Levo and Armour - still feeling rotten - need advice please.

[Princesspea]

Hi

I am now taking levo and armour and looking to see if I could have some assistance please.

Having been prescribed Armour and been advised by my doc to take it along with my levo (175mcg levo plus 1/2 grain armoour), I did that for a few days and realised it wasnt right (having previously taken 200mcg levo and had swelling), I felt a bit hyper so I dropped my levo the equivalent of my armour (100mcg levo and 1/2 grain armour). I tried taking the 1/2 grain in the morning as I may have adrenal issues, to see if it would help. I did that for 2 weeks then upped to a full grain last Wed and lowered my levo to 75mcg. I still feel pretty rough, in fact probably slightly worse than I did on levo only, apart for 2 good days in the first week. Im having a terrible time getting going in the morning so was going to try taking my armour and levo at night tonight and see if that helps. I am due to stay on 1 grain for 4 weeks.

I just wondered if anyone can tell me if I am doing this correctly please? Would I be best to try and go to armour only? If so, should I try starting again on 1/2 grain only and working my way up? Any other advice? Have lost a wee bit faith in my doctor. I know this will take time so I dont expect it to be a miracle cure, just looking to see if I may be on the right track or at least giving myself the best chance of success.

The last set of results I had were pre armour, b12, vit d etc were all fine, TSH was way under 1, fT4 was top end of range and fT3 was slightly over range. Hence I realise my armour + levo dose is now only equivalent to 150mcg as I wondered if I was slightly high and advice from a lovely lady on here confirmed that I probably was.

Thanks

Gail x

[marram]

I suspect the doctor would quite like you to say it's not working, of course I could be wrong, naughty Marie!

I can only give a personal opinion, I would think that Armour should be OK on its own, I can't for the life of me see why you would need to take Armour AND T4. I could make sense of it if it were T4 plus T3, but not T4 plus Armour.

I do hope, though, that someone who has experience of taking Armour might answer, my thought is that if you went back to the beginning you would likely be quite poorly for few days, and I would not be sure if it were me that I would want to do that.

Have you looked at some of the information on Stop the Thyroid Madness? That seems to be quite geared to Armour, you might get more information on the changeover.

This page is pretty good:

stopthethyroidmadness.com/m...

There is specific section about T4 and NDT, it might help you, Gail.

There is also a bit about multi-dosing. Give it a good read and see what you think.

Marie XX

[Princesspea in reply to marram]

Many thanks Marie, I have looked at the STTM page but not in any great depth so I will go tonight and give it a good read, thank you I had forgotten about it.

Its not my GP that I am seeing, dont even start me on him! lol. It is actually a private doctor that was recommended to me and is very knowledgeable hence I have felt the need to try and stick to what he has advised me but (and I appreciate its early days) it just doesnt feel right and I normally feel the difference of a good/bad change quite quickly although it does take a while to settle down. It may have been because my original issue through tests appeared to be 'normal' test results but with low T4 but I am not knowledgeable enough to know if this would be the answer.

Thank you

Gail

[marram in reply to Princesspea]

I withdraw my not-so-veiled accusation completely, as I now know who you are seeing.

I think Clarebear's answer is quite helpful, too, as she has done it and got the t-shirt. I hope it goes better for you, I just might follow a similar route some time in the future. And then I'll be picking YOUR brains!

[Princesspea in reply to marram]

Marie

I did not want to name the doctor as I have a very great respect for them and did not want it to look like I was knocking them, Im just having a few problems.

There isnt much left to pick!!! Thanks thyroid!!! lol xx

[Clarebear]

I switched directly from T4 to NDT, but I was only on 50mcg of thyroxine and blood test results on T4 showed a suppressed TSH and above range fT4. The doctor prescribed me 1/2 a grain to start with. I just stopped the T4 one day and started the Armour the next day.

Unfortunately I went really hypo on 1/2 a grain - I took that for 3 weeks. My TSH shot up to 59.0 and both fT3 and fT4 went below range and I felt dreadful. So best no to linger on half a grain for too long

I would think you could reduce your T4 dose gradually and correspondingly add in the Armour. The T3 element can take some getting used to (or it did for me), so maybe drop the T4 by 50mcg every two weeks and add in half a grain of Armour... Just a guess though

Some people do seem to need Armour and T4, whilst others need Armour and T3, and still others are fine on Armour alone.

Clare xx

[Princesspea in reply to Clarebear]

Clare

Many thanks, that sounds good, I knew I wouldnt feel wonderful immediately, or even after a few days/weeks, I just need a bit of guidance that I am doing it right. I hope you dont mind if I ask you a few questions please?

Did you just continue on the 1/2 grain then increase despite the hyper symptoms?

I take it I am better trying to get onto Armour only first then take if from there to see if I need to add in either T4 or T3?

When did you start to feel better?

Did you do this alone or under a doctor?

Do you mind if I ask you more questions when I think of them?........lol!!!

Many thanks

Gail x

[roslin in reply to Princesspea]

Just to say thank you to Gail for asking these questions as I am exactly in the same place

Roslinxx

[Clarebear]

I continued on the half a grain until I saw the results of my blood test, then increased to one grain. It took me about 6 months to feel better, I think due to adrenal fatigue. Every time I increased I felt dreadful and it was only when I tried CT3M that I started to feel better and knew that Armour had a good chance of working.

My endo was prescribing, but he had never prescribed it before so had no experience and was fairly sure it wouldn't work. My guidance came from this site

I have written a series blogs about my experience with Armour - the good, the bad and the ugly, if you are interested:

thyroiduk.healthunlocked.co...

It might be a good cure for insomnia

Yes please feel free to ask any questions xx

[Princesspea in reply to Clarebear]

Yes, very interested, thank you very much.

I also have 24hr saliva cortisol results that show low cortisol throughout the day so suspect i have adrenal issues, do you mind if I ask how you did the CT3M, doses, timings etc please?

Gail

[Clarebear in reply to Princesspea]

I had low morning cortisol. I contacted Paul Robinson through the STTM T3 Only facebook group, and he helped to guide me initially.

I think the details are in my Armour Diaries, starting about last June. From memory I think I started on 1 grain at 5.30am - 1.5 hours before getting up, but this gave me hyper symptoms, although immediately got rid of my vertigo. Paul suggested trying 1/2 a grain much earlier, sorry can't remember the time, but I couldn't feel any effect from this. I think I then tried 3/4 of a grain at 5am CT3M dose to 1 grain with no problems. Since then I have increased dose up to 3 grains, but this felt a little too much, and I am now on2.75 grains which feels good for now. My CT£M dose is 1 grain.

I'm afraid I wouldn't be knowledgeable enough on CT3M to advise you what to do - it does involve monitoring blood pressure, temperature and pulse, although I didn't do blood pressure as I don't have a machine. The FB group was really helpful though. I don't think CT3M works for everyone, for some unknown reason, but for me it did seem to be the magic bullet, as I was really struggling to raise my dose until this point. xx

[Heloise in reply to Princesspea]

stopthethyroidmadness.com/t...