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LDR brachytherapy at MSK: Day after treatment

NYC_talker profile image
25 Replies

Hi all,

I posted here about three weeks ago that I'd decided on LDR brachy -- radioactive seed implants -- as monotherapy, having decided between that and HDR brachy and SBRT. They were the three options that my RO at Memorial Sloan Kettering (MSK) had said had very good and equal outcomes as monotherapy in a case like mine, and that it was just a matter of preference. You can read about how I came to the decision here.

healthunlocked.com/prostate...

Well, yesterday was the big day, and I'm happy to report everything went very smoothly. I honestly feel like nothing happened at all. In fact, when I woke up in the OR, looking up at the same nurse who was looking down at me when I went out, I was quite confused. She said, "Hi, you're all done." And I said, "Wait, I just got here!" Ha.

Brief details before I go further: PSA had gone to 5.74, steadily rising in 2021. Biopsy in 9/21 confirmed PCa: Four cores out of 12. Two of them 6 and 2 of them 3+4=7. Bone and CT scans all clear. MRI was PIRADS 4, with 1 lesion of 1 cm on left side of peripheral zone. No ECE, no lymph node or seminal vesicle invasion. Smallish prostate (better suited for LDR). So, Gleason 7, favorable intermediate risk.

My RO is pleased with how the procedure went. He inserted 66 radioactive seeds via needles. I had no pain, and still have no pain, just slight soreness if I sneeze or sit on a chair that's too hard. But really, it's nothing. No bandage, no blood. Back to work tomorrow.

Had to do a mini-bowl prep the day before -- a half of a colonoscopy prep; no solid food from noon on.

The next day began with my arrival at 10:40 after which I was laying on a bed, speaking with various nurses and answering a lot of questions -- the MSK staff is amazing, knowledgeable and makes the whole thing much easier.

After the anesthesiologist visited, my RO came by and explained much of what was going to happen, and he answered all of my questions. He then walked me to the OR, and we talked as we made our way through halls and elevators. In the OR I met the whole team, all friendly and professional, some explaining a bit more. There's a portable CT scan machine which takes images throughout the procedure, merging them with the ultrasound images, feeding all into a computer program that helps the RO and team map out exactly where seeds should be placed.

When they're done, but before you're up and while you're still prepped, you get a last full CT scan, which allows them to make any adjustments or add a seed or two while you're still under and in place.

So there's a lot going on even after they're done, and I guess that's why you wake up in the OR. After the nurse said hi, they put me on a gurney. Then my RO wheeled me out, pulling the gurney at the front while others assisted. He explained how everything went as we rolled down corridors, onto an elevator and down more hallways.

In recovery I had to pee and fill to a line in a container before they would discharge me, as others have described. Actually, my RO ordered that I had to have two adequate urinations. I peed fairly quickly into the container, and the nurse was very impressed with the amount! She then suggested I drink some water and then go to the bathroom -- with the container -- so I get the experience of doing it standing up. That I did, and filled my container as ordered.

The nurse then did a sonogram of my bladder, explaining that even if you pee a lot it's still not good if you're not emptying the bladder enough in one urination. After that my RO came by, she showed him everything, and his eyes lit up upon seeing the pee-filled container! He gave me a high five.

I then got dressed and my husband came into recovery, and the nurse went over everything with us re: what to expect, what would be an emergency (i.e. retention of urine) and what to do. This was after a radiation officer came by and used a geiger counter to proclaim that I really wasn't emitting that much radiation and would not trip any alarms. But she gave me a card just in case I get stopped in an airport or whatever. All radiation, by the way, will wear off in a matter of months. And it is no danger to anyone, though they told me just to be safe not to have small children or puppies/kittens (an animal that is still growing) on my lap for more than 3 hours for a period of one month after. That won't be a problem for me. (I have a grown dog, and that's it).

A nurse had called my husband to let him know the details and where to come, and then my RO called him too. My RO went through everything with my husband and discussed in particular the issues that PCa and radiation therapy raise for gay men. He talked about what to expect, what the myths and exaggerations are, and explicitly discussed sexual issues -- what not to do temporarily and how positive the long-term looked comparatively. This is key and gets to what the indispensable Tall_Allen has been writing here.

I then went to another wing of the hospital for a 15-minute MRI. While I was doing that my husband ran into my RO in the waiting room and my RO told my husband he should take me out to dinner, that I was that good to go. Then they both rethought that considering the Omicron blizzard (even though we have vaccine mandates for restaurants in New York City.)

We went home and ordered in, having left MSK at about 4:30. So it was 10:40 am to 4: 30 pm -- and done. (I'll go back for a scan in four weeks, and meet with my RO in a few months). And I've felt good. Had no problem peeing, though the first few times burned a bit, as expected, and there was a little bit of blood, also expected. I also had no difference in frequency. Could have slept through the entire night, but got up purposely just to keep things flowing, drinking fluids.

But with LDR the more acute urinary frequency is two weeks out from the procedure. And some people have talked about getting up four times or more a night. So I'm bracing for that. I'll be working at home for a while longer, thanks to Omicron. So a bathroom will always be nearby.

Haven't ejaculated yet, but believe it or not I lost a lot of volume to my ejaculate last week, before the treatment, a side effect of the drugs for some. Same great, intense orgasms, just a lot less semen. In addition to low-dose Cialis, for the past week my RO has had me on flomax and finasteride (the latter just for 90 days), and both can cause abnormal ejaculation -- it returns once you're off the drug.

My RO thinks it's the flomax, so hopefully I can get off it sooner rather than later. But of course I expect the gradual decrease in ejaculate from the radiation, and my peeing intensity may require the flomax for a while. So who knows where I'll be?!

I'll keep you all posted as I go. And thanks again for this forum and the help and support of so many of you.

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25 Replies
CarverD profile image
CarverD

Congratulations! Sounds like that was about as easy as treatment can get. I had HDR Brachy done in October 2020 and other than currently dealing with the PSA bounce I've had outstanding results. Hoping you will be in the same place down the road!!

- doug

westof profile image
westof in reply to CarverD

Hmm... HDR Brachy and 25 days of IMRT (2019) and no se's worth mentioning..

G9, but stage 3 and my August scans indicated no mets anywhere.

Can't ejaculate, but at 73... 😕😁, "Darling Wife" (72) could care less!😢😂

Best

HDR done at MSK!

conbio profile image
conbio

Good news. Appreciate the details - my brachy is coming up, likely in February - sounds like you are on your way. Best to you.

ironmanburg profile image
ironmanburg

Congratuklations of successful procedure. I am facing the same decision and wanted to know if you were on active surveillance at any time before you decided to pull the plug? Thanks.

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker in reply to ironmanburg

Well, I didn't do AS for any appreciable amount of time, but it was at first something I was pursuing.

When I received my diagnosis after biopsy in September of '21, my urologist said it was "fair" and "not inappropriate" to do AS in my case when I raised the issue, but he said it would be an aggressive AS --- testing PSA again in Jan of '22, and could mean another biopsy this year. I could tell he'd probably be saying I needed further treatment after that next PSA test if it rose again, which it appeared it might do considering what went on all through '21.

I decided to go to MSK for consultation with RO (MSK also did their own evaluation of the pathology and I did an MRI there), where I was advised it would be best if I pursued further treatment, that I'd need it eventually and best to do now. My urologist agreed, after reviewing my RO's notes and MSK's evaluations.

ironmanburg profile image
ironmanburg in reply to NYC_talker

I have a lot to think about. Thanks.

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker in reply to ironmanburg

Looking at your profile you're in a very different place than I was/am. You have Gleason 6, and AS is perfect for you. I am a 3+4=7, favorable intermediate risk. It's borderline for AS and depends on PSA, how fast it is rising, how much 4 there is, etc. Many people in your situation can go 20 years or more without needing further treatment and will die from something else. In my case, at my age, further treatment would be likely, and the consensus was it should be done sooner rather than later.

ironmanburg profile image
ironmanburg in reply to NYC_talker

I've seen the RO and I go back to my Urologist at the end of the month so I will see how he feels about it. The Urologist wanted me to see the RO before I made any decision. Thanks for your post.

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker

Just a quick update: My ejaculate is back. Turns out the Flomax side effect I mentioned -- loss of ejaculate, which happened a week before treatment, when I began Flomax -- has worn off.

I have, post-procedure, now ejaculated with the normal volume I'd previously had, though of course it was bloody, as is expected for for a few weeks (and no problem with erections). I know semen will diminish as the effects of the radiation kick in. But it was nice to have it back after the Flomax had pulled a dirty trick on me before I was even treated! Will keep you posted.

chrisNYC profile image
chrisNYC

congrats!only on such a site can we applaud each other for our ejaculate! ; -)

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to chrisNYC

Or jealously slink away sadly.........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/23/2022 11:54 PM EST

Mando1 profile image
Mando1

Was wondering how your healing is going two weeks past LDR?Mike

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker in reply to Mando1

Thanks Mando. Yes, today is one day past two weeks. I have to say I was expecting the acute urinary symptoms to come by this point -- they say two weeks -- and though they could still come I've not seen much difference. I'd say a slight increase in frequency but I'm also purposely drinking more water to keep things flowing.

Two nights ago was the first time I got up twice in the middle of the night and thought, oh here it goes. Most nights it's been once or none. But then last night I didn't get up at all.

Otherwise, no pain of any kind, back at the gym, doing everything I do and feel good. No erectile function issues. Ejaculate volume has decreased but it seems to ebb and flow and I'm still not sure how much of that is attributed to the flomax. I really feel that overall it's been very smooth so far. Hope that continues.

Mando1 profile image
Mando1

That's wonderful news! Hope your healing journey continues to go smoothly.Mike

TechGuy67 profile image
TechGuy67

Thanks for sharing this detail on your treatment. I'm currently talking to MSK about both surgery and radiation options and I'm really struggling. I feel like the entire world is pushing me towards surgery or rather away from Radiation. Brachy sounded pretty scarey when I first read about it, so again thank you for the first hand account.

Was there anything in particular that led you to this over RP?

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker in reply to TechGuy67

Surgeons -- and urologists are surgeons -- will often if not always recommend surgery because that is what they do. My urologist though was terrific and even-handed, or even maybe slightly more toward radiation -- he just went through the short term and long term side effects and he focused on quality of life for someone like me who is very active and athletic.

I knew already a bit about the issue because of the field of work I'm in and just knew surgery wasn't for me. The recuperation is much longer, the incontinence and having to wear a pad could be longer -- and in particular, if you lift weights, any activity, you will often leak urine, at least for a while after surgery. And the fact that radiation had equal oncological outcomes in term of eradicating cancer, per the studies -- and my urologist was clear about that -- it just seemed an easy decision for me. I went to MSK to see a radiation oncologist and get a second opinion on pathology and all, and felt even more secure in the decision.

You should do some reading here on Health Unlocked and especially the posts by Tall_Allen on RP and on RT, and his own site. He recently wrote a piece in which he said gay men in particular (and I am gay) should never get a prostatectomy. But I believe it applies to heterosexual men as well who put certain QOL issues as a priority. You can read it here.

prostatecancer.news/2021/12...

If you are at MSK and feel pushed toward surgery then you might not be speaking with radiation oncologists. The great thing about MSK is that you can get opinions from various areas all in one place. So please see a radiation oncologist. Mine was Dr. Daniel Shasha, and others here have written about their great experiences with him. And also many here have written about Dr. Michael Zelefsky, a pioneer of brachytherapy and radiation therapy in general at MSK, who's enormously well-regarded.

You can also read this post on why I decided on LDR over other RT monotherapies. And honestly, I would go for any of them as they have equal outcomes, and, in my case, I could. Just becomes a matter of personal preference.

healthunlocked.com/prostate...

I hope this helps.

TechGuy67 profile image
TechGuy67 in reply to NYC_talker

Awesome thank you so much for that perspective. I was going to ask for the name. I am actually talking to Dr. Shasha as well and he's the only one that I've spoken to who was pro-Radiation and he impressed the heck out of me. I was actually hoping he was the RO you described in your original post. I meet with him again next week to hear recommendations.

Thanks for the link! I'm gay as well and these are exactly the issues that are weighing on me. Suddenly feeling less alone. I'll look out for Tall_Allens posts as well.

Best of luck with your recovery!

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker in reply to TechGuy67

Thank you! And you're welcome. Yes, the Tall_Allen post on his site (re: gay men) is important. And if you haven't joined, see the forum on PCa and gay men.

healthunlocked.com/prostate...

Feel free to reach out privately any time. And good luck!

TylexGP profile image
TylexGP

Glad to hear all went well. I wish you a uneventful recovery. MSK staff is great I had a similar experience with HDR Brachytherapy at MSK. You are in good hands.

Hope4Happiness profile image
Hope4Happiness

Great to see this post documenting your journey! I think these "play by play" posts regarding specific therapies are crucial because they really add the "reality" needed when making the decision about treatment. Best of luck to you!

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker in reply to Hope4Happiness

Thanks H4H. You inspired me to do it, after I saw your daily journal of your SBRT treatment. And was glad to see others followed. You're right -- it offers an on-the-ground perspective that's important. Wishing you the best as well!

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

Greetings NYC_talker,

You have the right userID.... but that is good.....

Please tell us your bio. Age? Location? When diagnosed? Treatment(s)? Treatment center(s)? Scores Psa/Gleason? Medications? Doctor's name(s)?

All info is voluntary, but it helps us help you and helps us too. When you respond, copy and paste it in your home page for your use and for other members’ reference.

THANK YOU AND KEEP POSTING!!!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/23/2022 11:56 PM EST

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker

It’s all in my bio, profile and in various posts, thanks!

gto67 profile image
gto67

Well I had HDRBT in 2012 and everything went well. PSA is currently at .22. But I have developed radiation cystitis and that caused me major burning in the prostate. I must take narcotic pain meds to relieve the intense pain. I hope you have good luck. The PSA will bounce for a few years but no big deal. Anyone have idea on what to do about radiation issue. Thanks all.

NYC_talker profile image
NYC_talker in reply to gto67

I'm glad it went well but sorry to hear about the cystitis. When did that begin?

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