Hello all. Can anyone explain to me the reason for taking Vitamin K? I see it mentioned frequently on this and other forums but have never been advised to use it. I asked my GP yesterday and she had never heard of it in relation to GCA/PMR, and promised to look it up. She also suggested vit C to help protect the skin from extreme thinning caused by long term use in of Prednisone.
Thanks for any insights!
Hi bright-H, it's Vitk2 that is recommended if you take calcium and vitd3 to help protect bones. The addition of Vitk2 means the calcium is directed towards the bones rather than the heart. Thanks for reminding me why I bought VitC. I read about that and skin but then couldn't remember why?! 🙄
Thanks for that. The New Zealand medical system has stopped recommending Calcium supplements for older women because of the increased risk of heart disease. Instead I am advised to get calcium from food sources and do gentle walking and yoga to strengthen bones. Fortunately I like dairy and oily fish.
I suspect that's part of why k2 being taken by people who have concerns about bone density. I stopped dairy for a while by back. On a bit now so will see what happens!
As Pro explains below though taking your Calcium supplement is important . The advice about not using it applies to people without Chronic conditions , or the General Healthy Population. The benefits of Calcium supplementation are considered to outweigh the potential risks with health issues like PMR.
I have read the same advice - do NOT take Calcium Carbonate - the cheap 'chalk ' prescribed by NHS doctors who seem to ignore the danger of the calcium causing a heart attack!
We must get all our Calcium from our diet. There are so many foods from which we can get our Calcium. I am outraged that doctors prescribe Calcium carbonate and never even mention calcium from food!!
Vit K2 (not K1, different form and purpose) is said to direct calcium towards the bones and not into soft tissue where it can cause calcification in arteries and the heart.
The studies about calcium supplementation that found cardiovascular problems also established that it was generally healthy subjects taking calcium-only supplements who demonstrated the problems. Those who also took vit D did not and there was less of a problem in non-healthy cases who had a good reason for taking supplements - as we do, we are not healthy and are taking a medication that increases the amount of calcium the body gets rid of via the kidneys which is part of the reason for potentially developing lower bone density. Another of the "less may be more" findings about various supplements.
As for vit C for skin - that's a new one on me. How does she reckon that works? I have very few skin problems after over 10 years on pred - I'm also in my late 60s and have never bothered with moisturising and skin care! I also take no supplements besides calcium (often) and vit D (always).
Re the vit C aspect - this
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
is an interesting read and comes from NZ so that would account for her mentioning it I suspect. I find nothing in there to suggest that taking vit C supplements is better than making sure you get adequate dietary vit C from fruit and veg since the skin-protective effect seen in a diet rich in such foods cannot be put down to vit C alone but is more likely to be due a combination of factors present in such a diet. That is the case for a lot of supplements - the artificial stuff is not as beneficial as the dietary version. As I mentioned, I take no supplements except calcium and vit D but can't say I have ever considered I had a problem that anyone claimed supplements would cure.
Excess vit C in the body is removed rapidly via the kidneys - creating expensive pee, as piglette often points out! The same applies to any water-soluble vitamin. Fat soluble vitamins pose a different problem - taken in excess they are stored away in the body fat and there is always a risk of overdose if excessive amounts of such supplements are taken. If you take the recommended amounts you are probably fine - but more is not always better.
Oh well back to my preferred method of eating food rather than adding yet another pill.
Yes , I take a number of other supplements , including Vitamin C , but many things I have cast aside if they showed no significant benefit.
I get most of my vitamins and minerals from diet but because I have digestive problems and chronic issues that cause me malabsorption problems and use more vitamins and minerals than are needed in a healthy person I do need that little extra supplement help.
I take any of my supplements mid meal or with food to help achieve better absorption as it stays long enough in the digestive system with fat or fluids for it to have chance to be absorbed , just gulped in with water ,you can ,as you say , just end up with expensive wee.
That's different though - you're excused 
I have a big smile now , thank you xxx
There is a brilliant book. "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox". It's full of information which you may find helpful. Available to buy or download.
As an aside to that, I wonder if lack of K2 from our dietary sources is the reason so many young people have crowded mouths and misaligned teeth. There is a lot in the book about jaw development and dentition.
Don't think it is any worse than when we were young though I suppose our diet in the 40s and 50s was pretty poor in that respect!
I just searched for it and saw that it’s really cheap for kindle just now. I went to buy it only to get a message 'you already own this book'. I seem to have bought it in early January (presumably someone mentioned it on here then) but then forgot! 😳 Oops. Pred head again!
I do like that message! Saves messing about on a book I already had been able to buy for 99p!!!
I had held off downloading stuff due to brain fade but if it tells you I will have a go!
A lot of over crowding issues and teeth misalignment can actually be genetic because of a narrow jaw and smaller head . People like myself with EDS and others with Connective Tissue issues often have these dental issues from birth .
Marfan like , or Marfanoid characteristics from birth are actually quite common in the general population without them causing any other ongoing health issues in the future except the need for dental work.
Other genetic characteristics like that include being as the say , "Pigeon Chested" or having longer than normal fingers and toes.
I also highly recommend this book. It is well referenced. I ordered the book from Amazon, but could have bought it locally as it is written by a Naturepath from my city. Within it she emphasizes that it is K2 , not K1 that we want for bone health and then she talks about the two types of K2.
I thought I'd add this link - a simple instruction for making your own source of vitamin K2. I love kimchi but have been scared to try making it. This sounds almost doable ...
theguardian.com/food/2020/f...
Wow, ok I’ll try making kimchi. Already a big fan of sauerkraut which maybe also provides vit K?
Should do.
That does sound doable for me as veggie. I prefer to start with homemade when trying something..
Thanks PMRpro. The Vit C article is very interesting and I agree with you about the food vs. supplements in most cases. As for vit K2 I shall explore that further with the GP. Do you have links to any literature on the benefits of K2 for calcium absorption?
I don't - HeronNS may well do.
There are a few in the Bone Health forum that HeronNS contributes to too. If you search for her in the members search or see her picture/avatar and look at her posts and replies there are a few references to k2.
Thanks!
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